Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[Ronnie1963]

Your post is typical ASR. The assumption that I didn’t buy the Dave is hilarious but also insulting.

In your Audio-Walhalla topic on a Dutch forum you wrote you have it on trial from your local hifi dealer, have no intention to buy it from them but want to buy second hand for half price at some point. So what is it?

 

[HuubFranssen]

Be careful there. As I noted in the review, Chord DAVE as is typical of some of their other products, has non-standard output voltages. In this case, both XLR and RCA are much higher in level than your topping and 90% of DACs I test. This will make the DAC sound much higher resolution as it is playing at higher volume level. Adjust the volume back down and any perceived audible difference will vanish. I know, because I have been victim of this countless times.

Above may be the key to a lot of success of DAC products, making theirs stand out in any ad-hoc AB test.

BTW, you don't have to run the comparison blind. Just match the outputs and then listen.

Hi Amir, let me first tell you that I appreciate the work you do. Thanks to you I have the best affordable top speaker I could imagine (Neumann KH420). Before that I had the JBL HD1600 with a Purifi amplifier. Also thanks to your reviews. In general I love equipment that measures well AND have a sound I like.

So far the good news.

The impression anyone gets when reading your many reviews of DACs is that there is a race to the bottom. Nowadays a Topping costing 400 dollars measures good enough to participate in an absolute top system. Purifi amplifier, Revel floorstanders and you are in business. When something still is not sounding good it must be the acoustics.

As a result a lot of people buy a cheap Shenzhen dac and then they think they are ready. And ofcourse soon thereafter a new version of that dac comes out. Extremely hilarious because why would Shenzhen do that? Because of AudioScienceReview. The cheapest way to sell thousands of dacs worldwide. You should ask money for that.

For some time I believed it and ended with the Topping D90/PRE90 combination. Top high end, but after buying a RME ADI-2 FS I noticed that there are subtitle differences that make the RME for me listenable and the Toppings in comparison lifeless. You say that you have to make the output levels identical? Yes when you compare directly that is necessary. But I have all the time of the world so I listen weeks before I make a decision. With all kinds of volume levels. A natural person is not capable to do that? Maybe. But it’s the best we have. And I think that not everybody has the same capability to hear and remember. The golden ear thing. Well I don’t think I have golden ears, I know people that are much better than me. But my own wife really doesn’t hear any difference between anything. A sort of permanent ABX. She also does not taste the difference between an excellent and an average white wine. I love her very much.

And now the Chord Dave that I really, really purchased. I didn’t pay the full 12.000 euros because the dac exists since 2016 so there are always bargains. Mine was 7250 euro and was still new in the box. The owner bought the Chord Dave and after that he probably read your review and got something else.

Someone said the Dave would have tons of options and filters but that is not the case. It looks nice but is like equipment from the 80’s. But that doesn’t matter, the sound is absolutely terrific. After all the perfect measuring crap-dacs I had this finally sounds like something you can end with. This is not caused by distortion because therefore the Dave measures too good.

So to be honest, I feel a littlebit betrayed. I have been kept busy for years thinking that good measurements would also give you a good sound. And when dacs that I know are really good (Chord Dave and Mola Mola Tambaqui) are tested here they are immediately sabled down to the ground so that the minions here can say that their 400 dollar dac measures better.

What’s going on here?

 

[HuubFranssen]

In your Audio-Walhalla topic on a Dutch forum you wrote you have it on trial from your local hifi dealer, have no intention to buy it from them but want to buy second hand for half price at some point. So what is it?

Read previous post. Probably I’m going to be cancelled so I return to my humble Audio-Walhalla topic in my home country.

 

[amirm]

As a result a lot of people buy a cheap Shenzhen dac and then they think they are ready. And ofcourse soon thereafter a new version of that dac comes out. Extremely hilarious because why would Shenzhen do that? Because of AudioScienceReview.

No. They do it because it is part of the consumer culture in Asia. Technology is like fish to them. It quickly gets old and smells. So they feel strong pressure to keep producing new models. Go to Japan and just look at the ton of options in electronics. We see a fraction of it in the west. They were doing that before we came along.

The effect we have had has been to create some kind of race for maximum optimization of performance at every price point. You get this at no cost to you so no reason to complain.

 

[amirm]

For some time I believed it and ended with the Topping D90/PRE90 combination. Top high end, but after buying a RME ADI-2 FS I noticed that there are subtitle differences that make the RME for me listenable and the Toppings in comparison lifeless.

I have both and hundred other DACs. None have such differing characteristics. Measurements reflect this and my countless comparisons show the same.

Of course, it is trivial to think otherwise and have that manifest itself in short-term experience. But since the difference is not real, it will disappear together with the extra money you spent for an expensive DAC.

I use an RME because of its excellent functionality. I listen to it for hours per day. No way is any Chord DAC superior to it in any way. Or worse than it for that matter from sound quality point of view.

 

[Turambar]

So to be honest, I feel a littlebit betrayed. I have been kept busy for years thinking that good measurements would also give you a good sound. And when dacs that I know are really good (Chord Dave and Mola Mola Tambaqui) are tested here they are immediately sabled down to the ground so that the minions here can say that their 400 dollar dac measures better.

What’s going on here?

I thought you were just being honest about your experience, that was also perfectly fine, we are listening to music with our brains, not just our ears.

Now, I see you have an agenda, and not a pretty one, really.

From a minion here.

 

[JustJones]

Hi Amir, let me first tell you that I appreciate the work you do. Thanks to you I have the best affordable top speaker I could imagine (Neumann KH420). Before that I had the JBL HD1600 with a Purifi amplifier. Also thanks to your reviews. In general I love equipment that measures well AND have a sound I like.

So far the good news.

The impression anyone gets when reading your many reviews of DACs is that there is a race to the bottom. Nowadays a Topping costing 400 dollars measures good enough to participate in an absolute top system. Purifi amplifier, Revel floorstanders and you are in business. When something still is not sounding good it must be the acoustics.

As a result a lot of people buy a cheap Shenzhen dac and then they think they are ready. And ofcourse soon thereafter a new version of that dac comes out. Extremely hilarious because why would Shenzhen do that? Because of AudioScienceReview. The cheapest way to sell thousands of dacs worldwide. You should ask money for that.

For some time I believed it and ended with the Topping D90/PRE90 combination. Top high end, but after buying a RME ADI-2 FS I noticed that there are subtitle differences that make the RME for me listenable and the Toppings in comparison lifeless. You say that you have to make the output levels identical? Yes when you compare directly that is necessary. But I have all the time of the world so I listen weeks before I make a decision. With all kinds of volume levels. A natural person is not capable to do that? Maybe. But it’s the best we have. And I think that not everybody has the same capability to hear and remember. The golden ear thing. Well I don’t think I have golden ears, I know people that are much better than me. But my own wife really doesn’t hear any difference between anything. A sort of permanent ABX. She also does not taste the difference between an excellent and an average white wine. I love her very much.

And now the Chord Dave that I really, really purchased. I didn’t pay the full 12.000 euros because the dac exists since 2016 so there are always bargains. Mine was 7250 euro and was still new in the box. The owner bought the Chord Dave and after that he probably read your review and got something else.

Someone said the Dave would have tons of options and filters but that is not the case. It looks nice but is like equipment from the 80’s. But that doesn’t matter, the sound is absolutely terrific. After all the perfect measuring crap-dacs I had this finally sounds like something you can end with. This is not caused by distortion because therefore the Dave measures too good.

So to be honest, I feel a littlebit betrayed. I have been kept busy for years thinking that good measurements would also give you a good sound. And when dacs that I know are really good (Chord Dave and Mola Mola Tambaqui) are tested here they are immediately sabled down to the ground so that the minions here can say that their 400 dollar dac measures better.

What’s going on here?

 

[HuubFranssen]

I thought you were just being honest about your experience, that was also perfectly fine, we are listening to music with our brains, not just our ears.

Now, I see you have an agenda, and not a pretty one, really.

From a minion here.

I have no agenda. I’m just frustrated that a dac I would never had bought myself, first because it is too expensive and later because of the ASR review, by coincidence lands in my hifi system and then outperforms everything. And that dac exists sinds 2016, I could have been ready for years.

When you try to climb into the head of someone that likes to listen to equipment before he buys, with help ofcourse of objective and subjective reviews because that is part of the hobby, that should be at least a bit understandable.

Minions is a but rude, I agree. But I reserve that for people that walk blind behind others, laugh loud when expensive equipment measures less than a cheap Shenzhen, all without hearing. That not only happens in Hifi nowadays.

 

[Geert]

And when dacs that I know are really good (Chord Dave and Mola Mola Tambaqui) are tested here they are immediately sabled down to the ground

Where was the Mola Mola Tambaqui sabled down here? In fact it received lots of praise; "performing at the top of the class", "reaching the limits of the AP", "near textbook perfect", "top dog", "very impressive unit" and so on. Bruno Putzeys himself joined the discussion.

 

[HuubFranssen]

I have both and hundred other DACs. None have such differing characteristics. Measurements reflect this and my countless comparisons show the same.

Of course, it is trivial to think otherwise and have that manifest itself in short-term experience. But since the difference is not real, it will disappear together with the extra money you spent for an expensive DAC.

I use an RME because of its excellent functionality. I listen to it for hours per day. No way is any Chord DAC superior to it in any way. Or worse than it for that matter from sound quality point of view.

There is really something wrong then. I also have an RME here but the Chord Dave is in a complete different league. What measurements can do with perception!

 

[JustJones]

I have no agenda. I’m just frustrated that a dac I would never had bought myself, first because it is too expensive and later because of the ASR review, by coincidence lands in my hifi system and then outperforms everything. And that dac exists sinds 2016, I could have been ready for years.

The Chord Dave was reviewed in July of 2022 so I fail to see how this review impeded your purchase for years. I think your agenda is fairly obvious.

 

[HuubFranssen]

Where was the Mola Mola Tambaqui sabled down here? In fact it received lots of praise; "performing at the top of the class", "reaching the limits of the AP", "near textbook perfect", "top dog", "very impressive unit" and so on. Bruno Putzeys himself joined the discussion.

Yes that’s true. The only thing is that nothing has been said about the sound quality. The fact that Mola Mola Tambaqui, Chord Dave and dCS gear sound relative to Topping D90 class much better is a no-go.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

You say that you have to make the output levels identical? Yes when you compare directly that is necessary. But I have all the time of the world so I listen weeks before I make a decision.

And thats a mistake, actually huge one.
Oh believe me I was the same, having owned Chord Dave (and other chord stuff like m scaler tt2 and so on....) I swear by it.
Once i did properly level matched A/B tests my eyes opened as wide as they never did.

Level matched A/B test is the key. In 99% of the cases it doesn't need to be blind, level matching and A/B switching is enough... just be honest with yourself.

ps. not that I have anything against Chord stuff, actually I like it, but it doesn't sound any different than other good dacs.

 

[JustJones]

Yes that’s true. The only thing is that nothing has been said about the sound quality. The fact that Mola Mola Tambaqui, Chord Dave and dCS gear sound relative to Topping D90 class much better is a no-go.

That might be because dacs don't have a "sound quality " unless they're purpose built for one.

 

[HuubFranssen]

The Chord Dave was reviewed in July of 2022 so I fail to see how this review impeded your purchase for years. I think your agenda is fairly obvious.

What kind of agenda you mean? I am the one who is trying to find an agenda. Or is that considered an agenda too? And is your agenda to debunk my agenda to find an agenda?

 

[SIY]

What measurements can do with perception!

Controls and ears-only. Best audibility measures there are. Try it some time.

 

[DSJR]

In your Audio-Walhalla topic on a Dutch forum you wrote you have it on trial from your local hifi dealer, have no intention to buy it from them but want to buy second hand for half price at some point. So what is it?

I used to hate 'clients' like that - borrowing a product from a dealer with no intention to buy new, but with the ultimate intention of buying a cheaper sample used or ex-dem elsewhere. A colleague of mine suggested a charge for the loan which would be refunded against the purchase, but that's not the way it worked in the UK.

 

[HuubFranssen]

And thats a mistake, actually huge one.
Oh believe me I was the same, having owned Chord Dave (and other chord stuff like m scaler tt2 and so on....) I swear by it.
Once i did properly level matched A/B tests my eyes opened as wide as they never did.

Level matched A/B test is the key. In 99% of the cases it doesn't need to be blind, level matching and A/B switching is enough... just be honest with yourself.

ps. not that I have anything against Chord stuff, actually I like it, but it doesn't sound any different than other good dacs.

So for weeks and weeks you listened to something you considered beautiful and after level matching you realised that the poorer sounding option was the same? You always listen to the same volume level? At night an when you want to hear a good live cd?

Ofcourse you chose the cheaper option.

But did it sound better after realising that or did you train yourself to listen to it? And did this event for ever stop you to try something else?

 

[HuubFranssen]

I used to hate 'clients' like that - borrowing a product from a dealer with no intention to buy new, but with the ultimate intention of buying a cheaper sample used or ex-dem elsewhere. A colleague of mine suggested a charge for the loan which would be refunded against the purchase, but that's not the way it worked in the UK.

Yeah I know. Normally I would never do this but I’m a very good client. And I’m sure I will buy a lot there in the future.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

So for weeks and weeks you listened to something you considered beautiful and after level matching you realised that the poorer sounding option was the same? You always listen to the same volume level? At night an when you want to hear a good live cd?

Ofcourse you chose the cheaper option.

But did it sound better after realising that or did you train yourself to listen to it? And did this event for ever stop you to try something else?

I was not using the same level for listening.
Dave was connected to Benchmark HPA4 and second dac was also connected to Benchmark HPA4, level matched so when I switch source the level is the same.

But ofcourse volume was changed with benchmark hpa4, so I listened at different levels.

No I did not choose cheaper option. Actually I switched to Mola Mola Tambaqui which later I switched to cheaper dac.
Believe me, money are not my main concern when buying stuff, being informed and not being fooled hence making wise decision is what I aim for.