Chord DAVE DAC Review (Video)

[Kevbaz]

I dont see how anyone can compare watches like Rolex, Patek etc to a DAC. One is not only a tool to tell the time with but can also be a piece of jewellery. In which case materials, craftmanship, history, status to some etc matters.
A DAC is to just convert your digital music to analogue, surely all that matters is how it measures which should reflect how it sounds (or doesn't add its own sound). Unless you want an expensive DAC for bragging rights or status, feel good factor, I just don't get it.

 

[Awsmone]

I dont see how anyone can compare watches like Rolex, Patek etc to a DAC. One is not only a tool to tell the time with but can also be a piece of jewellery. In which case materials, craftmanship, history, status to some etc matters.
A DAC is to just convert your digital music to analogue, surely all that matters is how it measures which should reflect how it sounds (or doesn't add its own sound). Unless you want an expensive DAC for bragging rights or status, feel good factor, I just don't get it.

I agree they are not comparable analogies , as we don’t wear dacs on our wrist , and watches have an historical societal status

dacs ultimately have a more utilitarian function , and although appearance, functionality and aesthetics play a part in a value added construct, the primary purpose is the accurate conversion of digital to analogue

the only reductionist question as with watches is if it is pretty accurate, is very accurate important ?

jitter related aural evaluation would suggest probably , but is Sinad important other than an engineering “badge of honour” is more questionable given human ability to detect multitone distortions, at low harmonics

geddes et al proposed a more human hearing “idiosyncratic “ evaluation of what is important in distortion measurements with population significant results

 

[DanielT]

Well, one can wonder the motivations when choosing to buy a Chord DAVE DAC? Ignorance, or lack of knowledge about what you can get for DAC performance at a hundredth of what it costs? One hundredth, it's fu*** insane if you think about it. The price of the Chord DAVE DAC.

For example :

Topping L30 II Review (Headphone Amp)

This is a review, detailed measurements and listening test of Topping L30 II. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $149. It comes in a number of colors. Usability could not be better with positive clicking switches for power/pre and gains. Three gains are provided with the low gain...

audiosciencereview.com

Or if buyers of Chord DAVE DAC still think it adds some extra magic , which cannot be measured but heard?
(buyer of it, I don't believe that)

The brand sells well, I suspect. Maybe that could be what motivates a purchase?

It's not pretty,good looking so it can hardly be that. In any case, I don't think it's pretty.

Brag gadget, show social status? Hardly likely, as others in the thread also pointed out.

So, way?

Edit:
Topping E30 also seems to be better than Chord DAVE DAC. Okay, no HP Amp functionality, but you get the point. Sensible HP Amp for little money, you can always buy and add.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

Well, one can wonder the motivations when choosing to buy a Chord DAVE DAC? Ignorance, or lack of knowledge about what you can get for DAC performance at a hundredth of what it costs? One hundredth, it's fu*** insane if you think about it. The price of the Chord DAVE DAC.

For example :

Topping L30 II Review (Headphone Amp)

This is a review, detailed measurements and listening test of Topping L30 II. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $149. It comes in a number of colors. Usability could not be better with positive clicking switches for power/pre and gains. Three gains are provided with the low gain...

audiosciencereview.com

Or if buyers of Chord DAVE DAC still think it adds some extra magic , which cannot be measured but heard?
(buyer of it, I don't believe that)

The brand sells well, I suspect. Maybe that could be what motivates a purchase?

It's not pretty,good looking so it can hardly be that. In any case, I don't think it's pretty.

Brag gadget, show social status? Hardly likely, as others in the thread also pointed out.

So, way?

Edit:
Topping E30 also seems to be better than Chord DAVE DAC. Okay, no HP Amp functionality, but you get the point. Sensible HP Amp for little money, you can always buy and add.

I think it was never about price/performance or the money some of us here keep mentioning. It's definitely more about that "extra magic" or the story/technology used to make it unique (even if the end result is it sounds the same).

But I suspect the case with most audiophiles are: They look at very TOTL products, then something more reasonable and have great measurements like Topping, Benchmark, Vioelectric etc... They dismiss the latter without extensive A/B tests for numerous reasons. If only everyone dismissed it had a chance or enough effort to experience properly, then what they choose is up to them and it's fine whether it's their placebo or actual preference.

TL/DR: Due to many reasons some people usually don't perceive good, affordable products in the same league as TOTL ones. Therefore they usually dismiss it or skip it.

 

[Jomungur]

I dont see how anyone can compare watches like Rolex, Patek etc to a DAC. One is not only a tool to tell the time with but can also be a piece of jewellery. In which case materials, craftmanship, history, status to some etc matters.
A DAC is to just convert your digital music to analogue, surely all that matters is how it measures which should reflect how it sounds (or doesn't add its own sound). Unless you want an expensive DAC for bragging rights or status, feel good factor, I just don't get it.

I believe most buyers of expensive DACs do think they are getting better sound performance, but out of ignorance. Most audio buyers, even the ones who buy expensive stuff, don't really know how the components work nor do they really care to try because it's not easy to figure out how a DAC works, for example. (Lots of great resources on the articles on this website, though, which is what drew me to it.)

It's not really like how you describe, either. No one buys that kind of DAC in isolation, or to power $100 headphones. You have to consider it in the context of the whole system the person has.

What usually happens is they are already have or are buying as part of a package as set of loudspeakers that costs $20,000, or perhaps far more. Or they have a combination of loudspeakers and headphones that costs $30,000. Then they decide to spend as a percentage of their budget on a DAC. Now there's little transparency here. The dealer tells them they should spend at least 30-40% of their audio budget on high quality components, and they listen, because it's not illogical to think that a high end speaker should be powered by a high end DAC. Because you wouldn't want to buy a high end car and fill it with 87 octane gasoline would you (although likely it makes no difference)? And no dealer who looks the part will stock high end speakers with cheap looking DACs. Then they go online and see review after glowing reviews, but the only people who seem to have reviewed their high class speakers also happen to use all these exotic amps and DACs. Now if there was transparency, someone would tell them they should only be spending a flat amount of money on cables and DACs. Like no more than $1000. But that's not here...yet.

The other issue is psychology. You know, when you got an expensive restaurant and the waiter says "Still or sparkling water?". Knowing the mark-up is outrageous, you still might feel a little peasant-like if you say "Uh, just tap water (and don't think I'm a cheapskate)". Actually, in this situation next time try saying it like this: "Tap water please, it's the same damn thing!" You come out looking cooler from experience and might get better service as only a real big dog would talk like that in a nice restaurant. Anyway, these are clearly first world problems.

But I do really feel for someone for whose budget is modest, and using their hard earned savings to make a sacrifice to get something nice for a hobby they enjoy. They should really be spending their money on speakers/headphones, there's lots of good ones now in every price range. And they are being pointlessly misled if they feel from reading online forums that they are missing out on account of their DAC. To me, that's the most important takeaway from anyone who reads these reviews.

 

[Lambda]

How do you know you can't hear it?

From looking at the measurements.

https://goldensound.audio/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/USB-in-XLR-Out.pdf

Noise is at ~120dB and distortion way below what any headphone or even speaker adds.

Maybe you can create a scenario to ABX it if you try real hard. but this i not what the average joe is doing.

. One is not only a tool to tell the time with but can also be a piece of jewellery. In which case materials, craftmanship, history, status to some etc matters.

One is not only a tool to convert Digital to analog but can also be a piece of jewellery. In which case materials, craftmanship, history, status to some etc matters.
Or do you think it looks the way it looks for purely functional reasons

urely all that matters is how it measures which should reflect how it sounds (or doesn't add its own sound).

and it's good enough to not add its own sound.

 

[Kevbaz]

From looking at the measurements.

https://goldensound.audio/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/USB-in-XLR-Out.pdf

Noise is at ~120dB and distortion way below what any headphone or even speaker adds.

Maybe you can create a scenario to ABX it if you try real hard. but this i not what the average joe is doing.


One is not only a tool to convert Digital to analog but can also be a piece of jewellery. In which case materials, craftmanship, history, status to some etc matters.
Or do you think it looks the way it looks for purely functional reasons


and it's good enough to not add its own sound.

For me a DAC is not jewellery it’s a tool, I don’t really care how it looks, form and function matters to me.

 

[Lambda]

For me a DAC is not jewellery it’s a tool, I don’t really care how it looks, form and function matters to me.

Well this one is not for you...

This one is obliviously to show off and look expansive. esoteric HiFi jewellery. i mean just look at it.
Like the "kawaii" USB battery power bank.

You don’t buy thinks that look (ridiculous) like this as a tool or for there technical specifications.

Is some looking at this and thinking this is a "tool" or remotely rational and functionally optimized design.?
Of cause (hopefully) not. This is jewellery for people with no taste but lots of money.

 

[Jimster480]

I believe most buyers of expensive DACs do think they are getting better sound performance, but out of ignorance. Most audio buyers, even the ones who buy expensive stuff, don't really know how the components work nor do they really care to try because it's not easy to figure out how a DAC works, for example. (Lots of great resources on the articles on this website, though, which is what drew me to it.)

It's not really like how you describe, either. No one buys that kind of DAC in isolation, or to power $100 headphones. You have to consider it in the context of the whole system the person has.

What usually happens is they are already have or are buying as part of a package as set of loudspeakers that costs $20,000, or perhaps far more. Or they have a combination of loudspeakers and headphones that costs $30,000. Then they decide to spend as a percentage of their budget on a DAC. Now there's little transparency here. The dealer tells them they should spend at least 30-40% of their audio budget on high quality components, and they listen, because it's not illogical to think that a high end speaker should be powered by a high end DAC. Because you wouldn't want to buy a high end car and fill it with 87 octane gasoline would you (although likely it makes no difference)? And no dealer who looks the part will stock high end speakers with cheap looking DACs. Then they go online and see review after glowing reviews, but the only people who seem to have reviewed their high class speakers also happen to use all these exotic amps and DACs. Now if there was transparency, someone would tell them they should only be spending a flat amount of money on cables and DACs. Like no more than $1000. But that's not here...yet.

The other issue is psychology. You know, when you got an expensive restaurant and the waiter says "Still or sparkling water?". Knowing the mark-up is outrageous, you still might feel a little peasant-like if you say "Uh, just tap water (and don't think I'm a cheapskate)". Actually, in this situation next time try saying it like this: "Tap water please, it's the same damn thing!" You come out looking cooler from experience and might get better service as only a real big dog would talk like that in a nice restaurant. Anyway, these are clearly first world problems.

But I do really feel for someone for whose budget is modest, and using their hard earned savings to make a sacrifice to get something nice for a hobby they enjoy. They should really be spending their money on speakers/headphones, there's lots of good ones now in every price range. And they are being pointlessly misled if they feel from reading online forums that they are missing out on account of their DAC. To me, that's the most important takeaway from anyone who reads these reviews.

I'm sorry but regular gas is absolutely not the same thing as premium gas. You cannot make that analogy. As a person who builds cars as a hobby; octane in fuel is extremely important and it is what allows you to make more power and run better / more aggressive timing. With modern vehicles today you can actually put in higher octane in many vehicles to have them run better or make more power just due to automatic timing improvements.
As the ECU will likely find the limit through the knock sensors. However this does not mean that you should not tune the car for maximum performance if that is what you are after. Which is why there is such an aftermarket for car modifications.

The thing is that I believe what you're saying about the system cost is probably the most likely scenario. People think that because they are spending $10,000 plus dollars on a set of speakers that it cannot be powered by a $100 dac. I may think that $10,000 speakers could be silly but at the same time I can understand that there are some very specific crafts which cost tons of money to produce and Engineers have to get paid. But that is just not the case in these DACs that do not even reach maximum performance.

I would actually compare people who are purchasing these expensive dacs as people who are purchasing high-end luxury cars with small engines. They want to drive a fancy Mercedes or Lexus but they can't afford proper premium fuel and lower gas mileage. So they have a luxury car with a 2-liter 4-cylinder making 200 horsepower. When the entire concept of luxury cars is not only for them to have nice Interiors but for them to be quick and able to pass other cars easily on the street.
The reality is that if you want a car that has a nice interior but is not a luxury car then there are many options available such as a Mazda 3 / 6, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, most Buick lineup, Honda Accord EX-L and you can buy the higher end model. It is not a luxury car and it serves the same function. But instead people will rather purchase a entry-level Mercedes that is in every possible way worse than the Mazda because they feel like they are doing better driving a Mercedes and that's why they want one with a four-cylinder. Because they need to try to get closer gas mileage than the Mazda but they want to waste more money and drive with a Mercedes logo.

Today these types of cars have dominated the roads around where I live and it is pretty sad. Growing up I never saw a Mercedes with anything less than a V6 and the same was true for Cadillac and most other luxury brands.
I would imagine lots of people have also been doing the same thing with DACs which is why so many companies release these high-end models with basically the same performance as the low end model.

 

[sq225917]

The watch analogy is good, people aren't buying this dac on its measured performance, they probably don't give a rats ass about the numbers. They are buying the story around the tech, the exclusivity, quirky looks, made in the uk tag and how it sounds to them, not necessarily in that order.

It's stupid to try an apply 'our' buying reasons onto another cohort.

 

[DonR]

The watch analogy is good, people aren't buying this dac on its measured performance, they probably don't give a rats ass about the numbers. They are buying the story around the tech, the exclusivity, quirky looks, made in the uk tag and how it sounds to them, not necessarily in that order.

It's stupid to try an apply 'our' buying reasons onto another cohort.

Works for the buyer but not the seller. At least Rolex isn't claiming their watches keep better time than a Timex.

 

[Jomungur]

I'm sorry but regular gas is absolutely not the same thing as premium gas. You cannot make that analogy. As a person who builds cars as a hobby; octane in fuel is extremely important and it is what allows you to make more power and run better / more aggressive timing. With modern vehicles today you can actually put in higher octane in many vehicles to have them run better or make more power just due to automatic timing improvements.
As the ECU will likely find the limit through the knock sensors. However this does not mean that you should not tune the car for maximum performance if that is what you are after. Which is why there is such an aftermarket for car modifications.

The thing is that I believe what you're saying about the system cost is probably the most likely scenario. People think that because they are spending $10,000 plus dollars on a set of speakers that it cannot be powered by a $100 dac. I may think that $10,000 speakers could be silly but at the same time I can understand that there are some very specific crafts which cost tons of money to produce and Engineers have to get paid. But that is just not the case in these DACs that do not even reach maximum performance.

I would actually compare people who are purchasing these expensive dacs as people who are purchasing high-end luxury cars with small engines. They want to drive a fancy Mercedes or Lexus but they can't afford proper premium fuel and lower gas mileage. So they have a luxury car with a 2-liter 4-cylinder making 200 horsepower. When the entire concept of luxury cars is not only for them to have nice Interiors but for them to be quick and able to pass other cars easily on the street.
The reality is that if you want a car that has a nice interior but is not a luxury car then there are many options available such as a Mazda 3 / 6, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, most Buick lineup, Honda Accord EX-L and you can buy the higher end model. It is not a luxury car and it serves the same function. But instead people will rather purchase a entry-level Mercedes that is in every possible way worse than the Mazda because they feel like they are doing better driving a Mercedes and that's why they want one with a four-cylinder. Because they need to try to get closer gas mileage than the Mazda but they want to waste more money and drive with a Mercedes logo.

Today these types of cars have dominated the roads around where I live and it is pretty sad. Growing up I never saw a Mercedes with anything less than a V6 and the same was true for Cadillac and most other luxury brands.
I would imagine lots of people have also been doing the same thing with DACs which is why so many companies release these high-end models with basically the same performance as the low end model.

Sorry, I had no idea! Shows you what I know about cars. Got it, yes, the car/gas analogy was a bad one. But I think you got what I was trying to say.

What you are describing is the problem with consumerism.

 

[Jimster480]

Sorry, I had no idea! Shows you what I know about cars. Got it, yes, the car/gas analogy was a bad one. But I think you got what I was trying to say.

What you are describing is the problem with consumerism.

Definitely we have too much consumerism in the world today. I think everyone would be happier without so much consumerism. So many people are always looking to the next thing and don't appreciate what they have

 

[Awsmone]

Definitely we have too much consumerism in the world today. I think everyone would be happier without so much consumerism. So many people are always looking to the next thing and don't appreciate what they have

I agree with that, I have concerntrated on improving what I have rather than constantly purchasing new gear

however, consumerism does drive change and improvement in most industries , audio is an outlier and in some respects can be compared to antique furniture collection rather than cutting edge electronics , I think the millennials will move to portable music , and large freestanding systems will become archaic , tangible physical media is also historical , and vinyl can be seen as a collectable like baseball cards

 

[Awsmone]

So they have a luxury car with a 2-liter 4-cylinder making 200 horsepower. When the entire concept of luxury cars is not only for them to have nice Interiors but for them to be quick and able to pass other cars easily on the street.

Some of those 2 litre Mercedes’ make over 400 HP, more than many older V8s lol

 

[Jimster480]

Some of those 2 cylinder Mercedes’ make over 400 HP, more than many older V8s lol

2 cylinder? You mean 2 liter!

There are lots of small engine cars that can make good power. Part of what I build is smaller older JDM engines to big power numbers..
However the overwhelming majority of "luxury" cars with small engines make trash power as they are the same engines from the economy cars just put into the higher end models.
The CLA and CLS 250 are perfect examples as neither one of them makes very much power. The Infiniti Q50 and Q60 2.5 L actually uses the same engine again which is a whole other issue since it's a Mercedes engine in an Infiniti but they also make Trash power.
The Lexus models with 2 L and 2.5 L engines use the literal same engines from the Camry and the Lexus ES 350 is basically just an Avalon but with a much more expensive price tag because it has a Lexus badge on it.
Many of the Acura cars are the same thing as the Honda models but with higher price tags while utilizing the same exact engines making basically the same exact power. Nissan has made a variable compression turbo engine that they Place into the more expensive Altima costing over 30k and this engine also comes in one of the infinity models which is the qx55. This is not to be confused with the previous QX56 which is actually now today the qx80.


Anyway enough about cars lol, there are entire other websites to discuss those!

 

[xaviescacs]

If it's above the half on the sorted graph it's above the median (or above 50% percentile), but not necessarily above the mean.

 

[JSmith]

They are buying the story around the tech, the exclusivity, quirky looks, made in the uk tag and how it sounds to them, not necessarily in that order.

The exclusivity to who though? For example a Rolex is going to be known by most people as luxurious and being worn on the wrist is also a fashion item. What does one do with a Dave that is similar, walk it to the shops? Even having guests around for a dinner party, no one would have any idea what it even is let alone care it's expensive, unless they were in the audio world.


JSmith

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

The exclusivity to who though? For example a Rolex is going to be known by most people as luxurious and being worn on the wrist is also a fashion item. What does one do with a Dave that is similar, walk it to the shops? Even having guests around for a dinner party, no one would have any idea what it even is let alone care it's expensive, unless they were in the audio world.


JSmith

I don't know about exclusivity but this DAC wouldn't pair well with a comparison like fancy watches IMO. I think you are aware that there are just insanely expensive things that people who don't know about them won't actually recognize them until they're told about them, and I think this DAC is one of them.

Some weird pieces of rare wood can easily be around the price of this DAC, some old 1800s china-styled liquor bottles can reach $$$$ as well etc..... I can see this DAC as a "status item" because the average joe surely can't afford a 10k+ DAC (especially if it does nothing special). On top of that Chord designs look.... distinguishable too.

 

[Pablo27]

Hahahaha WHAT?