Carver Raven 350 Review (Tube Amp)

[Matt_Holland]

Ironically -- though they're not necessarily the best test data extant, the most-quoted "test" to date is probably still the Carver amplifier challenge.

Carver Challenge | BobCarverCorp.com

www.bobcarvercorp.com

The Carver Challenge

Is it possible to make a $700 "mainstream-audio" power amplifier sound exactly like a high-priced perfectionist amplifier? Bob Carver, of Carver Corporation, seemed to think he could, so we challenged him to prove it.

www.stereophile.com

PS I've got to give Stereophile credit for Footnote 2 in the above reference, referring to Carver's many, whimsically-monikered "innovations" of that bygone era:

Chrysler Air-Raid Siren - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's got a horn-loaded Hemi. I mean, does it get any more American?

Ref the Carver amp challenge I read about that yesterday. Absolutely amazing! Added to the ABX amp tests published in Stereo Review it amazes me that people still spend more than a couple of grand max on an amp in the name of sound quality.

Ref the Hemi-horn (sounds sexual) that is indeed about as Mercan as it gets! “F&@k yeah!!!”

 

[fpitas]

Ref the Hemi-horn (sounds sexual) that is indeed about as Mercan as it gets! “F&@k yeah!!!

Meh. A modern motorized horn uses one of these:

ZZ632/1000 Chevrolet Performance Big Block

Check out the deal on ZZ632/1000 Chevrolet Performance Big Block at GM Performance Motor

www.gmperformancemotor.com

USA! USA! USA!

/Actually a very nice motor

 

[Matt_Holland]

Meh. A modern motorized horn uses one of these:

ZZ632/1000 Chevrolet Performance Big Block

Check out the deal on ZZ632/1000 Chevrolet Performance Big Block at GM Performance Motor

www.gmperformancemotor.com

USA! USA! USA!

/Actually a very nice motor

Amazing! This is a world I didn’t know existed.

U
S
A

 

[fpitas]

Amazing! This is a world I didn’t know existed.

U
S
A

It's not so different in design than the garden variety LS motors from Chevy. Just...big.

 

[anmpr1]

First time I heard Maggies, it was a co-worker with a Micro Seiki TT, Audio Research SP5 (improved SP4) and a Moscode 300 power amp. Thought it was weird the preamp had no tone controls. AR made a solid state power amp. One of only two power amps to have passed the Swedish series amplifier test. I've owned a Counterpoint hybrid amp.

Thanks for the historical rundown. Story I heard about ARC and tone controls is that Harry Pearson thought preamps sounded better without 'em, and he did have a lot of consumer influence in the 'high end' market. So manufacturers went along. Features were always considered 'unmusical' in tweako electronics. I'm just guessing, but I think the 'bare bones' designs indicated that the designer was somehow more 'serious' for it. Also, it distinguished American high-end offerings from Japanese gear, which always came with more features than you'd ever want to use. Not to mention it was cheaper for these small outfits to manufacture minimalist.

Going against the grain, Jim Bongiorno always said you needed balance and tone controls, and a lot of switching. And Carver always had a handful of add-ons in his product line.

Compare the Levinson JC-2 with the Yamaha C-1. The Yamaha cost almost twice that of the JC-2. At least at the beginning of its run. Funny thing about Mark-- his first preamp was feature packed, as was his later Cello gear--both designed under the influence of Richard Burwen. So it wasn't an ideological thing against tone controls, etc. Just marketing.

My next guess is that NYAL sold more Moscode ITs (a little line level phono stage add on which was supposed to give Japanese receivers that missing hybrid tube magic) than all their big iron put together. At least most people could afford one of those.

 

[fpitas]

I'm definitely a fan of tone and balance controls. These days it can be done without resorting to potentiometers, which can be troublesome.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Pretty sure the one here has a two-prong plug. I'll look anon.
I mean, I could pack it up and ship it west - - mine's 'as found' though so probably not quite up to snuff even by early/mid-70s standards. It does work, though* and sounded perfectly OK when last assessed.
I don't know if it blocks DC at the inputs or not. I do have the original manuals for those two hombres, as it happens -- the Crown manuals of that era are quite entertaining to read (BTW).

__________________
* I don't think it is possible to kill Crown products of that era. Maybe a silver stake through the P/S would do it -- or something involving a crucifix.

Bit of a mix up. My last post was about the new Carver offering.

 

[egellings]

Yeah, you didn't exactly have a broad array of choices in output devices back then. You made do with what you could get. And some older amps didn't have the blocking inductor and Zobel network at the speaker output that everybody tosses in now by habit, so the output transistors would sometimes violently oscillate and destroy themselves mysteriously. Fun times.

Lower voltage output transistors were plentiful, but in that voltage range, those CRT-type TV transistors were all that was readily available.

 

[fpitas]

Lower voltage output transistors were plentiful, but in that voltage range, those CRT-type TV transistors were all that was readily available.

All the power transistors were just awful by modern standards.

 

[Ken1951]

its power plant contained a newly designed Firepower Hemi V8 engine with a displacement of 331 cubic inches (5.42 L) and producing 180 horsepower (130 kW).[1]

It's still surprising how little horsepower old V8s had.

Those Hemis would look great in a Bantam roadster with either Hilborn injectors or a GMC 6-71!! But - - - OT....

 

[Blumlein 88]

its power plant contained a newly designed Firepower Hemi V8 engine with a displacement of 331 cubic inches (5.42 L) and producing 180 horsepower (130 kW).[1]

It's still surprising how little horsepower old V8s had.

Even worse the old quoted power figures were sort of rigged. They changed how that was done in the USA in 1972. Basically just take those numbers and multiply by .8 for what the newer number would be. Even that is not rear wheel horsepower which will be even less. Prior to 1972 they gamed the numbers in other ways too like having a vacuum applied to the exhaust, running with all belts and other accessories driven externally and not by the motor.

 

[mhardy6647]

Bit of a mix up. My last post was about the new Carver offering.

Sorry! Perhaps I even quoted the wrong post. Either way, I was still pretty hypocaffeinated when I blathered on in this thread earlier today.
So, I'll blame it on that, and, again, apologize for being unintentionally off topic (as opposed to being intentionally off topic, which is more my usual M.O.

Meh. A modern motorized horn uses one of these:

ZZ632/1000 Chevrolet Performance Big Block

Check out the deal on ZZ632/1000 Chevrolet Performance Big Block at GM Performance Motor

www.gmperformancemotor.com

USA! USA! USA!

/Actually a very nice motor

A "crate motor"

PS A modern motorized early warning system would use a waveguide.

 

[egellings]

I enjoy vacuum tube amplification myself, as long as it is (reasonably) responsibly designed and built.

Love the look! Nice craftmanship, and tubes that lets you see the filament right through the plate.

 

[fpitas]

PS A modern motorized early warning system would use a waveguide.

With that much horsepower to waste, why not? Although the intermod will be worse

 

[Count Dacula]

Should I trade in my Purifi HPA-400 and RasPi Streamer for a fancy turntable and Carver tube amp so all my friends think I’m a real Audiophile? Maybe not. I’ll just keep them wondering.

​

A black box has a mystique all of it's own.

 

[Count Dacula]

It's a tube amp. It's supposed to sound different. It's supposed to look different. Take away either, and there's no point to it.

Back in the day, tube amplifiers tried to minimise noise and distortions, and a few managed to achieve audible transparency, albeit at some high cost, especially in the quality of the output transformers. SS amps made all of that detailed circuit design unnecessary, so the only way tube amps would still sell is to sound audibly different, i.e. higher distortion, higher output impedance (which changed the frequency response of the loudspeakers ) and steam-punk looks which appeals to those so inclined.

There's zero reason to buy a new tube amp just for HiFi.

S.

Right. if someone inherited this type of unit from their cool uncle, it would be a total keeper. Fire it up and rock out to some nasty hobgoblin tunes on a turntable....who cares how it really sounds?

However buying a (expensive) new-old "replica" type thing in 2022 is absurd. It's disingenuine, the polar opposite of legit vintage....so typical of todays retro-cult-ure.

Often, people have an anti-technology bias. Sure they have a smartphone because of utility, but then turn around and go vintage audio...why, a rejection of modern society??? It explains a lot. Possibly they just don't understand any of the tech and they do all of their "research" by listening to other goofball opinions based on nothing but speculation, inuendo, tribal associations and Old Wives' Tales. (reminds me of Tribology)

"Steampunk" nails it as a thematic. As a H&SS guy, I think yeah, if it actually was post-apocalypse and someone fashioned a TT and amp from a dinner plate or spare tire and busted field radio, or maybe some coconuts like Gilligan's Island. YES that would be totally legit Retro Vintage SteamPumk out the azz. However, paying out the azz for a prettyboy version of THAT is corny AF. It ends up being rooted in their inability to decide what is objectively good for THEMSELVES and have confidence in it instead of peer-pressure influences.

I guess it's not a reach to compare it to buying an ancient automobile for it's nostalgia value, when it is objectively terrible in every way compared to a modern car....for the same $5000

 

[JimFarrell29]

My take on hifi is that I listen to what is enjoyable, rather than what conforms to a somewhat philosophically problematic notion of accuracy or verisimilitude.
Of course sometimes accurate is enjoyable.

This approach has led me to a high quality Allnic tube amp for jazz and acoustic music, a powerful solid state amp for rock and classical, a parallel vintage system for that vintage sound and various Fosi Class D amps for fun. I would very much like to add a Purifi Eigentakt amp also.

My point, other than that I like playing with gear, is that nothing in hifi is right or wrong so long as it gives the end user pleasure and leads to an emotional response to the music.

 

[Count Dacula]

"Tubes must be good seeing how high-end companies/customers use them.
Tubes have great mid-range.
Bob Carver must know what he is doing given his credentials.
This is 'cheap' by high-end standards"

I did it.

 

[Sal1950]

Should I trade in my Purifi HPA-400 and RasPi Streamer for a fancy turntable and Carver tube amp so all my friends think I’m a real Audiophile? Maybe not. I’ll just keep them wondering.

​

If you do, be sure to turn in your member resignation to ASR

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

My take on hifi is that I listen to what is enjoyable, rather than what conforms to a somewhat philosophically problematic notion of accuracy or verisimilitude.
Of course sometimes accurate is enjoyable.

This approach has led me to a high quality Allnic tube amp for jazz and acoustic music, a powerful solid state amp for rock and classical, a parallel vintage system for that vintage sound and various Fosi Class D amps for fun. I would very much like to add a Purifi Eigentakt amp also.

My point, other than that I like playing with gear, is that nothing in hifi is right or wrong so long as it gives the end user pleasure and leads to an emotional response to the music.

I don't think I'd dare to ask my Missus for the dosh, that your approach requires Jim.
Not with grandchildren to help through uni.