Canton speakers.

[Ralferator]

PARTS QUALITY doesnt equate to sound quality. Reference 9k has the nasty midband distortion like all cantons with K drivers.

Do you have measurements that show it?

 

[Crosstalk]

Do you have measurements that show it?

Yes. Please buy tests of Any Canton speaker with Ceramic drivers from websites like Audio.de or Stereoplay.de Check out the distortion graphs at the 2khz to 4khz region. You can see that when you hit 105db loudness the distortion on all those speakers are around 3 percent which is audible. With a music signal with 10 db dynamics, at 95db its clearly audible as 10 db more is 105 db. Check out the discussion of reference 7k here in this forum. For comparison the LS50 Meta which is a tiny bookshelf has it at 0.1 percent at this loudnes!!!

This is one example from SE40K which is a typical Canton with Ceramic Driver. You can pay for any models review and see the same problem with every one of them:

 

[Crosstalk]

I have the Canton Vento Reference 9.2 DC bookshelf speakers. They don't show any sign of audible distortion at normal listening levels or higher volumes than I care to listen to. They definitely have the ability to get you moving and dynamics are great. I prefer the BMR Monitor to the Canton Vento Reference 9.2 DC now but it wasn't until I experienced the BMR Monitors for a month that I changed my preference.

9.2 doesnt have ceramic drivers. I issue is only there with speakers with Ceramic Drivers. Vento and older Ref series are just fine.

 

[thewas]

9.2 doesnt have ceramic drivers. I issue is only there with speakers with Ceramic Drivers. Vento and older Ref series are just fine.

The 9.2 has also increased distortion at the mids at the Audio/Stereoplay 100 dB measurement https://www.testberichte.de/a/lautsprecher/magazin/audio-12-2009/185612.html but as said the question is how much this is audible, especially at normal listening levels and considering the rather closer to pink noise spectrum of most music.

 

[Crosstalk]

The 9.2 has also increased distortion at the mids at the Audio/Stereoplay 100 dB measurement https://www.testberichte.de/a/lautsprecher/magazin/audio-12-2009/185612.html but as said the question is how much this is audible, especially at normal listening levels and considering the rather closer to pink noise spectrum of most music.

These are words from jackocleebrown in another thread:
"I presume you're talking about the LS50 META? The speaker sensitivity is about 85dB SPL/2.83V/1m. To achieve 96dB SPL/1m average you need 10Vrms, which is 25.6W average into 3.9Ohms. I must say though that 96dB average SPL is rather a high replay level. The peaks in music will be at least 9dB higher than the average level, so you'd be hitting peak SPLs of ~105dB/1m and you would be at the clipping point of a 100W/4Ohm amp."


The context is different. But the part in bold is the exact same scenario with music. So, even at 96db canton can hit the 3% mark. If you try out 3 % distortion in this band with music its audible as something like a thin film of plastic put on your mouth while talking!

 

[thewas]

If you try out 3 % distortion in this band with music its audible as something like a thin film of plastic put on your mouth while talking!

What kind of harmonic distortion (2nd, 3rd? order) and do you have some files to demonstrate it? I just added out of curiosity 3% full band(!) 2nd harmonic distortion to a music track and it doesn't sound at all like you say, even 3% 3rd doesn't although it should be more easily detectable in an ABX test.

 

[Crosstalk]

Seems like Canton is busy ignoring this problem and keeps continuing with the same drivers over and over again!! https://www.canton.de/de/produkte/online-exklusiv/a-65.

The A45 was Anniversary 45 which came out as a celebration model of their 45 years in 2017! The naming is funny now as the new one 65! Ceramic midbass = pass for me again!

 

[thewas]

Seems like Canton is busy ignoring this problem and keeps continuing with the same drivers over and over again!! https://www.canton.de/de/produkte/online-exklusiv/a-65.

The A45 was Anniversary 45 which came out as a celebration model of their 45 years in 2017! The naming is funny now as the new one 65! Ceramic midbass = pass for me again!

The current Audio issue has measured it and the upper mid THD bump reaches around 1% at 95 dB and around 2% at 100 dB, no comment on it from me as I don't want to discuss it all over again. By the way since some years also a A55 model exists.

 

[Scottso]

I Bought a pair of Canton Reference 9 k in piano black on audiogon with stands for just under two grand. The built quality is superb the internal parts and wiring looks top shelf just as they state. I use them with a Technics SUG 700 integrated amp and Marantz CD. the imaging is outstanding and the detail as well so much inner detail woo. They are not forward rather the sound seems to begin at the speaker and go back. The sound stage is limited to the distance between the speakers. They have a very limited off-axis response I mean limited to the seating position plus a few inches either way, I do have them toed in as I listen nearfield.speakers 7 ft apart I'm sitting 8 ft from them they are two ft. from front wall . 6 from the sides. The soundstage is also limited in its height.
My prior setup was Adcom amp, preamp and cd player driving Snell 2c mark 2 speakers( those speakers were to big for my room but man they could shake the walls with Respighi's Pines of Rome. the snells bass was superior as was their dynamic range everything else was no contest the Cantons were in a different class. Now my digital amp was not as full-bodied as the class b amp from Adcom.
The canton's really shine with small groups jazz, rock, vocals and for stand-mounted I was surprised at how deep and articulate they play, seriously. I still bought an SVS SB 1000 plus and frankly it does not add much.
The cantons disappear when playing music. As you can surmise my system is not warm total SS. I would like to hear them with tubes someday. I can say this I went to a local dealer and listened to B&W, Focal, Paradigm, and two others Warfdale? I forgot but the Cantons for my ears were tops both in sound and bracing the knock test on the Cantons was like knocking on a brick. Though I'm not sure the speakers I was listening to were in the same price range as the Cantons as I do not recall model numbers. I remember the B&W was a 700 something nice looking with that tweeter outside the box that caught my eye, they sounded brighter. thats about it.

 

[Crosstalk]

The current Audio issue has measured it and the upper mid THD bump reaches around 1% at 95 dB and around 2% at 100 dB, no comment on it from me as I don't want to discuss it all over again. By the way since some years also a A55 model exists.

I am aware of the A55, but Canton marketed A45 as a celebration model! Then they forgot about it and made a A55! and now a 65! Infact there is a hidden model SE40K which is exclusive to a store, with one less Ceramic woofer! https://www.hifi-schluderbacher.de/de/product/canton-se-40-k-auspackware-schwarz-hochglanz-27659/. Think we wont see it in the stores. Hope they fix it this year with their 50 anniversary model atleast.

 

[Crosstalk]

The current Audio issue has measured it and the upper mid THD bump reaches around 1% at 95 dB and around 2% at 100 dB, no comment on it from me as I don't want to discuss it all over again. By the way since some years also a A55 model exists.

2% at a frequency range where its easily audible was the problem. with bass 2 percent isnt audible.

 

[thewas]

2% at a frequency range where its easily audible was the problem. with bass 2 percent isnt audible.

2% at 100 dB and about the audibility we had above a discussion which I won't repeat.

 

[Scottso]

May be true, but generally now Canton is bad with upper mid distortion. Its there on their every modern speakers with Ceramic drivers, which is a shame that their own aluminum cone models performed superior. For the money there are tones of non flawed options.

I'm 75 my ears do not pick up any distortion but then again I'm 75. Yes no doubt there are better speakers but the availability of them, the effort put forth finding and auditioning them, their cost, their look including WAF. Here is a popular highly positive reviewed speaker Harbeth P3ESR for around 3 grand sorry to say ugly all those screws staring at you in a common-looking box. I'll take the Canton's high mid distortion. And who said distortion is bad look at all those tube guys they buy nothing but distortion, to each his own.

​

 

[Crosstalk]

I'm 75 my ears do not pick up any distortion but then again I'm 75. Yes no doubt there are better speakers but the availability of them, the effort put forth finding and auditioning them, their cost, their look including WAF. Here is a popular highly positive reviewed speaker Harbeth P3ESR for around 3 grand sorry to say ugly all those screws staring at you in a common-looking box. I'll take the Canton's high mid distortion. And who said distortion is bad look at all those tube guys they buy nothing but distortion, to each his own.

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if your take is a mediocre performing speakers with good looks, well Canton is a good option. I admire their design too. Looks super cool. But unfortunately for me when it comes to a speaker sound is the prime thing then comes look. So happy with my KEF R11 although it look ugly in my opinion.

 

[thewas]

if your take is a mediocre performing speakers with good looks, well Canton is a good option

Yes, same as the Blade 1 one was a mediocre performing speaker...

 

[Plcamp]

I had (still have) a pair of quite old “Fonum 200” 3way bookshelves, but one tweeter dead. The mid and tweeters measure very well. I might be able to repair the tweeter.

 

[Scottso]

if your take is a mediocre performing speakers with good looks, well Canton is a good option. I admire their design too. Looks super cool. But unfortunately for me when it comes to a speaker sound is the prime thing then comes look. So happy with my KEF R11 although it look ugly in my opinion.

They have to look good to sound good and mine sound and look marvelous. My take is to buy local top-quality used, and save thousands lol.
The KEF R 11 are fine speakers not so ugly they look like all the other multi-driver designed boxes and cost 3 times as much as my 9K Cantons with subs.
Show me the research supporting your view that the 9k sound bad not in my house? I listen nearfield 7' ft apart- and 7' from me. Canton corp. controls all the means of production so everything is done in-house which is a big deal. A final word from me Nobody bats 100% there are poor performers in each brand KEF included.
As an aside I wanted to know the best crossover setting for my SVS subs and emailed Canton in Germany and got a response the next day and welcomed any other questions I might have.
You might want to read this if you think they are just mediocre sounding.
https://stereo-magazine.com/archive/articles/2016/4/cantons-k-question-66507

 

[Crosstalk]

Yes, same as the Blade 1 one was a mediocre performing speaker...

The year is now 2022. Blade 1 is a product which is flawed for todays standards and is currently phased out. Nobody should buy it. Luckily KEF fixed the problems with Blade 2.

The year is now 2022. Canton's Reference line came in 2015, and they still sell them without fixing the midband distortion. The vento line up which is below the Reference K line up doesnt have this problem as it uses other materials on their drivers. There is no new version of the Reference K series with this problem fixed. Hope they update this line soon, as it clearly falls behind the competition.

 

[Crosstalk]

They have to look good to sound good and mine sound and look marvelous. My take is to buy local top-quality used, and save thousands lol.
The KEF R 11 are fine speakers not so ugly they look like all the other multi-driver designed boxes and cost 3 times as much as my 9K Cantons with subs.
Show me the research supporting your view that the 9k sound bad not in my house? I listen nearfield 7' ft apart- and 7' from me. Canton corp. controls all the means of production so everything is done in-house which is a big deal. A final word from me Nobody bats 100% there are poor performers in each brand KEF included.
As an aside I wanted to know the best crossover setting for my SVS subs and emailed Canton in Germany and got a response the next day and welcomed any other questions I might have.
You might want to read this if you think they are just mediocre sounding.
https://stereo-magazine.com/archive/articles/2016/4/cantons-k-question-66507

Stereo magazine reviews are useless. They have no distortion measurements. If you bought it after reading that, then you are a victim of marketing! Sorry but thats the truth. If you really want to know what is the issue, go to Canton reference 7k thread here and see so many screenshots of Ref K line with the same problem. Sorry Vento is good, Reference K falls behind current competition. They look super cool. Agree. I dont have energy to explain it once again.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Yes, same as the Blade 1 one was a mediocre performing speaker...

OK, last post..

The difference is you still dont know if the blades has 3rd or 2nd harmonic distortion, and as I already said the distortion in blades is not in the critical region
Also Sean O already said the volume can mask the distortion, the thing is the ref7k ref3k from hifi voice even at only 90dB show a high distortion in the critical region. At this volume we are not even near to high spl, no much room for distortion mask.

From hifi voice Canton reference 3k
"The overall distortion remains within normal limits, however, between 700 and 3,000 Hz it oscillates above 1%, which is quite strange
Distortion of 2nd (yellow) and 3rd (orange) harmonics

As can be seen here, part of that more pronounced (but still not drastic) distortion is due to the 2nd harmonic, but in the region around 2 kHz it is already the 3rd harmonic, which people often associate with a feeling of hardness.
"

Canton reference 8k
" Total harmonic distortion (green line)

Overall, the distortion is at normal, seamlessly low values - but in the range between 2 and 4 kHz you can see a "mound", where the value of distortion attacks 1.5%.
Distortion of 2nd (yellow) and 3rd (orange) harmonics

It can be seen from this exploded graph that the increased distortion is caused by the 3rd harmonic, as if the midrange here were no longer operating within its optimal range.
"

Source

https://www.hifi-voice.com/images/testy/2021/20211111/canton-reference-3-k/2021-10-31-TST-Canton-Reference-3-K-m6.png

Canton Reference 8 K

Řada Reference se už dlouhá léta pyšní pozicí na vrcholu nabídky německé značky Canton – nakonec přesně podle svého jména. Na rozdíl od mnoha jiných firem nicméně Canton ani po lehké revizi těchto modelů, kdy jim v názvu přibylo písmenko K a nějaká ta technická vylepšení, neustřelil do cenových...

www.hifi-voice.com