Can you really hear the sound details over 20kHz?

[sam]

I have been listening to music really really long time and I think I can notice the difference between crappy mp3 and good lossless source. But I can never say that the ultrasonic frequencies affects my listening.
There's whole lot of expensive high tech stuff that can extend the frequencies past 20kHz, whether it's a speaker or a DAC/AMP. But personally, I don't think it will affect my listening and it would have less impact as I age more.

I'm not saying "because I can't hear it, it's useless" But I'm just wondering if there's anyone in need for frequencies over 20kHz.
I tested my hearing few month ago and I can't hear anything above 16kHz, so this sad truth tells me extremely high frequencies can't bother me at all.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Don't see anything to disagree with in your post.

Just for reference, there are something like 1.5 to 2 % of young adults that can perceive tones above 20 khz. The threshold is very high at more than 100 db and I think there isn't anyone who could do better than 23 khz. Considering how rarely any high levels occur near 20 khz with music it isn't much to worry about.

 

[Wes]

Your hearing test was almost surely sine waves in isolation.

The fly in the ointment is that music consists of complex waveforms. We don't know for sure if the first test always generalizes to music.

We do know that mp3 is fine for most people on most music, using whatever systems they used when doing the R&D on it.

 

[pma]

Try switch on-off test with 20kHz wave. You might hear/feel the "on" transient and then increased pressure in your ear. (I am 65 )

 

[sergeauckland]

Try switch on-off test with 20kHz wave. You might hear/feel the "on" transient and then increased pressure in your ear. (I am 65 )

This may also be because the source of 20kHz, however low distortion, may also have an amount of low level broadband noise, and it's the noise that one senses.

S.

 

[Vini darko]

Personally my hearing is done by 17k at best so yeah I don't worry about it.

 

[pma]

This may also be because the source of 20kHz, however low distortion, may also have an amount of low level broadband noise, and it's the noise that one senses.

S.

Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe a speculation, as noise floor level remains measurably the same and electronics and speaker remains on all the time.

 

[Ron Texas]

The MQA guys sure want you to think very high frequencies are vital to musical enjoyment.

 

[Matias]

Download this keys jiggling sound, and enable/disable a low pass filter at 20kHz, and try to hear if there is less "air" in the reproduction.
https://freesound.org/people/Anton/sounds/334/

According to this paper, keys jiggling have 68% of power above 20 kHz.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/life_above_20khz.pdf

 

[pma]

The MQA guys sure want you to think very high frequencies are vital to musical enjoyment.

Thank you for the recommendation, personally I do not like MQA, I do not like and do not agree with their reasoning and I consider it only a marketing purpose.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The fly in the ointment is that music consists of complex waveforms. We don't know for sure if the first test always generalizes to music

Do we have any evidence, or a suggested mechanism by which, it doesn't?

 

[andreasmaaan]

The threshold is very high at more than 100 db and I think there isn't anyone who could do better than 23 khz.

I think it's more like 28kHz, actually. Will post the study when I get home later...

 

[Beershaun]

I am inferring that you are equating file sample rate with hearing frequency range. If thats the case, Sample rate is not related to hearing frequency range. It is the number of samples per second used to encode the analog music signal. Whether that signal is 20hz or 20khz. Please ignore if my assumption is incorrect.

 

[Geert]

From "Behavioral Hearing Thresholds Between 0.125 and 20 kHz Using Depth-Compensated Ear Simulator Calibration - Jungmee Lee, Ph.D., Sumitrajit Dhar, Ph.D., [...], and Jonathan Siegel, Ph.D. (2012)". (Other studies came to the same conclusion).

The conclusion is that in practice we are deaf above 20kHz (an lower if you're a bit older). (Or you should amplify high frequencies until they smoke your tweeters).

 

[Wes]

Do we have any evidence, or a suggested mechanism by which, it doesn't?

You are inverting the scientific method.

 

[Pearljam5000]

 

[solderdude]

How hard can it be to filter a 24/96 or 24/192 recording to 20kHz and AB that against the original ?
Better make sure the transducer has no problems with >20kHz material.

 

[muslhead]

anyone know the world population distribution of being able to hear above 20kz?
I struggle with 12k and even at that level, there is nothing of interest or adds to music i listen to and from what i can tell i am missing very little in the context of content.

 

[andreasmaaan]

You are inverting the scientific method.

I was only enquiring to see if you had anything of substance to say on the matter.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Maybe IMD?

This is what happens if you play 2 single test tones.
In this case 19 and 20 (both not audible for me) but a spike at -70 as a result might be perfectly audible.