Can you really hear the sound details over 20kHz?

[amper42]

All I know is the last time I heard a 20hz/20khz sweep via headphones my sensitivity increased around 8khz-10khz, then turned into fizzy buzzing around 11khz and then clean disappeared.

I totally agree. On the REW sweeps I don't hear anything over 12khz. Don't believe it? See if you can hear this 13kHz test tone?

If you can get to 23kHz you have yourself a dog whistle.

 

[Pio2001]

I assume that when this cutoff frequency drops from (say) 18K to 15K, it's accompanied by some dropoff at 8 or 10 or 12K. This, even if it's just a few db, is probably responsible for our practical decline in hearing performance. Does anyone have sources on this phenomenon?

The details were posted in message #14 of this discussion.

Don't believe it? See if you can hear this 13kHz test tone?

High frequency tests on Youtube are utterly useless, as Youtube deliberately cuts all high frequencies from videos in order to save bandwidth. The cutoff frequency depends on the video resolution.

Also avoid if possible any online audio files played directly in your browser, as the audio API is unknown and may cause aliasing.

Always play lossless files in a properly configured audio player.

 

[ShiZo]

I totally agree. On the REW sweeps I don't hear anything over 12khz. Don't believe it? See if you can hear this 13kHz test tone?

If you can get to 23kHz you have yourself a dog whistle.

Yes, that hurts my ears. It's very loud, I can hear to at least 17khz.

Btw, youtube cuts HF at a certain point. I suggest this site.

https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php

They start from the top and go down and as soon as you hear it that's obviously the highest frequency you are able to hear.

 

[boselover61]

What's the point of over 20khz when most contents dont even reach 20khz?

 

[Vini darko]

Same here, how old are you?

I'm 40.

 

[Wes]

What's the point of over 20khz when most contents dont even reach 20khz?

putatively, the overtones - higher harmonics

 

[raif71]

Maybe someone can train cats and dogs to help us "hear" the higher frequencies when it happens, you know like dogs that lead the blind. So in this case, whenever a music has that high frequency component, the dog or cat can do some cute body position/shakes so that we who are deaf to these frequencies can somewhat experience them. Then for us... aah...15khz is playing, based on the cute position of dog/cat.

 

[sam]

I am inferring that you are equating file sample rate with hearing frequency range. If thats the case, Sample rate is not related to hearing frequency range. It is the number of samples per second used to encode the analog music signal. Whether that signal is 20hz or 20khz. Please ignore if my assumption is incorrect.

You are right, I mixed up a little.
sampling rate doesn't usually change the frequency range.

 

[Patrick1958]

Yesterday i was playing with the new algorithm calculation results from Jaako, just to compare them against Oratory's results.
Oratory seldom provides PEQ settings above 10 K. Jaako does. Tried Jaako's results on two headphones. Both had 2 PEQ settings above 10 K. The Philips Fidelio L2 15511 & 19375, the Teufel Real Z 12114 & 19624.
My last visit to a hearing specialist about a year ago revealed that i can not hear tones above 13700 Hz at normal volume. While listening to the Philips i deactivated those two upper register PEQ setting and to my surprise the sound signature changed considerably. Did the same with the Teufel and here also sound signature changed.
So while i cannot hear anything above 13700 Hz at normal volume it does seem to influence the lower registers ......

 

[pma]

If there is anyone interested, can you tell me what you hear from this file (zipped flac)? There are two midrange bursts to calibrate volume followed by on-off bursts from 11kHz to 20kHz. Please set the volume on first 2 bursts and then do not increase it during the test.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I am inferring that you are equating file sample rate with hearing frequency range. If thats the case, Sample rate is not related to hearing frequency range. It is the number of samples per second used to encode the analog music signal. Whether that signal is 20hz or 20khz. Please ignore if my assumption is incorrect.

You are right, I mixed up a little.
sampling rate doesn't usually change the frequency range.

Sampling rate and frequency range are very much connected.

The maximum frequency that can be encoded is half the sampling rate. So, for example, where the sampling rate is 44.1 kHz, the maximum frequency that can be encoded will be 22.05 kHz.

Increasing the sampling rate increases the frequency range. (In fact that's all it does.)

 

[Katji]

For those who say they cannot hear above 15 kHz or 17 kHz, stick around - time flies.
iirc, It starts deteriorating around age 11 years. Which is about the same as the onset of puberty.

 

[Robin L]

If there is anyone interested, can you tell me what you hear from this file (zipped flac)? There are two midrange bursts to calibrate volume followed by on-off bursts from 11kHz to 20kHz. Please set the volume on first 2 bursts and then do not increase it during the test.

View attachment 110295

Same results as the YouTube, upper registers crap out at 11khz.

 

[Killingbeans]

If there is anyone interested, can you tell me what you hear from this file (zipped flac)?

I hear clicks followed by a tone. But when I reach ~15kHz, the rest becomes clicks followed by silence.

 

[weasels]

putatively, the overtones - higher harmonics

This is what I don't understand. In order for the harmonics to matter, wouldn't they need to already be part of the audible range of the played back signal?

 

[JSHamlet234]

I'm pushing 40 and my hearing starts to roll off quickly above 14K and by 15K it's non-existent. When I was 18, those numbers were 19K and 20K. My kids who are 15 and under, can hear up to around 21-22K. I have no idea why so much emphasis is placed on frequencies that only the cat can hear. "Hi-Res Certified to 40KHz." Give me a break!

 

[pma]

I hear clicks followed by a tone. But when I reach ~15kHz, the rest becomes clicks followed by silence.

That's a good description. And you have hit the most interesting part - we hear the "click", which is nothing else than the starting transient of the sine tone. There are no lower frequencies in the spectrum than the base frequency. As an example, this is the third sine burst before the end of the test sequence. Frequency little above 19kHz, band limited to 24kHz, starts as a pre/-ringing cluster. We do not hear the base frequency of 19kHz, BUT we do hear the initial transient of the 19kHz (properly bandlimited) wave. In other words, we still hear the transient atack. Put a brickwall LPF 18kHz into to chain and there is nothing audible. This is what I want to say.

So, do we need full bandwidth or not? . Can we think only in terms of steady state sines or not? How about transients with frequency content above our steady state hearing abilities?

 

[Xombul]

I didn't get your point, what is the issue with 20 kHz?

 

[Atanasi]

Sampling rate and frequency range are very much connected.

The maximum frequency that can be encoded is half the sampling rate. So, for example, where the sampling rate is 44.1 kHz, the maximum frequency that can be encoded will be 22.05 kHz.

The maximum frequency has to be smaller than half the sampling rate. If the frequency is exactly half, it is not captured correctly. Consider a tone of 22.05 kHz and the sampling rate of 44.1 kHz. In case of no phase difference, all captured samples would be zero, for example.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The maximum frequency has to be smaller than half the sampling rate. If the frequency is exactly half, it is not captured correctly. Consider a tone of 22.05 kHz and the sampling rate of 44.1 kHz. In case of no phase difference, all captured samples would be zero, for example.View attachment 110366

Yeh, that's a good point. The upper limit will be <Fs/2, not =Fs/2. And then ofc any anti-aliasing filter will decrease the effective frequency range a little further again.