Can anyone explain the VU Meter renaissance?

[Chrispy]

Acutally rpms I can hear and feel. Does anyone ever in their history of stickshift car driving have looked at the RPM meter to decide when to shift?

Well a lot of modern gear has rev/shift indicators, so maybe. I can hear/feel to an extent but would rather see the numbers on the revs....I can have an idea of mph from that too.

 

[pablolie]

Well a lot of modern gear has rev/shift indicators, so maybe. I can hear/feel to an extent but would rather see the numbers on the revs....I can have an idea of mph from that too.

Mine does and I have never for a second looked at it. I can hear when I need to shift. And especially on a track day I am way too busy considering brake points and such to ever ever look at a useless shift indicator. When it goes red it's too late anyhow. You need an automatic. :-D

 

[Chrispy]

Mine does and I have never for a second looked at it. I can hear when I need to shift. And especially on a track day I am way too busy considering brake points and such to ever ever look at a useless shift indicator. When it goes red it's too late anyhow. You need an automatic. :-D

But you find a speedometer useful still?

 

[pablolie]

But you find a speedometer useful still?

As I said before, of course I do. But that is a flawed analogy. A VU meter like reviewed is more like the equally useless real time, second to second miles per gallon stat that is all over the place and says zero about overall fuel economy.

 

[Chrispy]

As I said before, of course I do. But that is a flawed analogy. A VU meter like reviewed is more like the equally useless real time, second to second miles per gallon stat that is all over the place and says zero about overall fuel economy.

No just meant as a speedo on track. Nothing to do with relatively useless vu meters except unless you like needle bouncy things

 

[pablolie]

No just meant as a speedo on track. Nothing to do with relatively useless vu meters except unless you like needle bouncy things

track vehicles dont have speedos anyone looks at while racing. they have timers. no one cares about how fast they go on straights. they care about where they lose speed and such.

 

[restorer-john]

What you guys seem to fail to understand is amplifier meters read voltage. They may be marked Watts@8R but that not what they are indicating. They are scaled (usually) to the maximum/rated voltage swing the amplifier can apply to the load and driven by sometimes very sophisticated driver circuitry.

Example: A 200wpc amp with meters is calibrated to 0dB at 40V RMS over 8R. If you are swing your meters up at 0dB or over, regardless of the attached load, you are hitting the supply rail limits and the amp is likely clipping. Something you actually want to know. Just like your tacho’s red line shows you where you are with respect to a design limit.

Don’t make the mistaken assumption meters are all just bouncy things as they aren’t. Some run custom micros with A/D conversion, take into account attached loads and can produce extremely accurate indications.

Personally I rather have them than not, but I like being able to shut them off too.

 

[Cbdb2]

How many meters on power amps show true power, do they measure both current and voltage or just voltage and assume an 8 ohm load? And what about power factor.
Meters are eye candy clip LEDs are handy but if you have a lot of power even those are unnecessary. (Unless you like deafness)

 

[Blumlein 88]

McIntosh had Powerguard for clipping. Some of their amps had a lamp that lit when clipping. It actually was optically coupled and would gradually compress to prevent distortion over 1% though obviously when you saw them light up it was nearing clipping, and it was quick enough it might light to briefly for you to see. It kept the amp output clean as long as possible however.

 

[Balle Clorin]

I am not sure why we need devices to tell us the trivial stuff we already know

Well tell us how close was your amplifier to clipping last time you played ?
How much headroom do you have , are your amp way too powerful( wasting money) or too weak? Are your new speakers pushing your amp harder?

My needle meters tells me such things in an instant…even if it is a fancy V meter.

 

[pablolie]

Well tell us how close was your amplifier to clipping last time you played ?
How much headroom do you have , are your amp way too powerful( wasting money) or too weak? Are your new speakers pushing your amp harder?

My needle meters tells me such things in an instant…even if it is a fancy V meter.

Actually the VU meter reviewed here does none of the stuff you mention, since it is not an integrated, calibrated element of the amp.

 

[Sokel]

What you guys seem to fail to understand is amplifier meters read voltage. They may be marked Watts@8R but that not what they are indicating. They are scaled (usually) to the maximum/rated voltage swing the amplifier can apply to the load and driven by sometimes very sophisticated driver circuitry.

Example: A 200wpc amp with meters is calibrated to 0dB at 40V RMS over 8R. If you are swing your meters up at 0dB or over, regardless of the attached load, you are hitting the supply rail limits and the amp is likely clipping. Something you actually want to know. Just like your tacho’s red line shows you where you are with respect to a design limit.

Don’t make the mistaken assumption meters are all just bouncy things as they aren’t. Some run custom micros with A/D conversion, take into account attached loads and can produce extremely accurate indications.

Personally I rather have them than not, but I like being able to shut them off too.

Exactly.
That's how one of mine specs it's outputs:



Simple really.

 

[beagleman]

Maybe I am different......

I did like the "Look and fun" of meters, but also.....
Simply found it quite "informative" to see the actual relative levels of the dynamics of music playing.

I used to show guys that bragged about "pounding 200 Watts" into speakers that MOST of the time, you are using less than a Watt.
To me it was more of a thing to KNOW about levels and so on.

How close the amp was to clipping and how much headroom it had. Just voltmeters set to ohms.
Most meters are easily switchable between different ohms and can have a somewhat accurate reading of "power" although it obviously varies by frequency and impedance of speakers.

 

[beagleman]

How many meters on power amps show true power, do they measure both current and voltage or just voltage and assume an 8 ohm load? And what about power factor.
Meters are eye candy clip LEDs are handy but if you have a lot of power even those are unnecessary. (Unless you like deafness)

None are 100% accurate, but that is not the fault of the meter itself as you imply.

That is due to the varying nature of speaker impedance. They do not factor in Current, as no meter could read current, but they read voltage across 2 terminals.

They are essentially measuring the amps rail voltage, and can obviously be only calibrated to one impedance speaker wise, but most can be set to different impedances.
They are not for measuring exact Watts of power to a speaker, as we all know that varies with impedance, but more to get an idea of the relative Watts or power level the amp is being used at.

While not ideal and perfect, seeing one indicate say for example "10 watts" is going to be a LOT closer than one just taking a wild guess at how many watts are being "Put out" to a speaker.

 

[notsodeadlizard]

https://www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/mcknight_qa-on-the-svi-6.pdf

VU meters never disappeared anywhere and therefore there is no renaissance.
But in most cases of non-professional use of audio equipment, VU meter is the most ideally useless component.
Especially when the audio path is digital almost to the speaker connector, if not to the speakers themselves.
Well, the arrows jump beautifully and the backlight is also could be nice (sometime, if it's not annoying).

With the addition of a Chinese VU meter box for two hundred bucks (I don’t know what could cost that much in it), a cheap amplifier will not become anything close to Technics SU-R1000, for example.
This is how this world works.
You can build a Mercedes 500SLK speedometer into a Corolla, the arrow will move beautifully and the backlight will be beautiful.
But no more.

 

[Chr1]

Got one of the older 90's Technics power amps.
SE-A1000M2

Still fire it up occasionally to see the soft glow and dancing needles...Replaced the old school bulbs with LEDs, so a cheaper glow than my valve amp too.

 

[JP]

If you have one with these offensive meters, feel free to send it my way. I'll cover shipping.

 

[Chr1]

That is mine on steroids.
Lovely.
(though you may need to cough up to crate ship the beast.)

 

[DanielT]

Well tell us how close was your amplifier to clipping last time you played ?
How much headroom do you have , are your amp way too powerful( wasting money) or too weak? Are your new speakers pushing your amp harder?

My needle meters tells me such things in an instant…even if it is a fancy V meter.

I had a sealed subwoofer with a 12 inch sub driver, SVS SB12-NSD. Small and sealed= eats power. Even with its amplifier of 400 watts RMS continuous power (800 watts peak dynamic power), at just a little more than normal listening volume with music with a lot of bass, I could make the clipping indicator flash.

 

[tinnitus]

Would you buy a car without a speedometer, a tacho and a fuel gauge?

Hello everyone, unfortunately I have to admit that I didn't open this thread because of the "interesting" topic, but to check when car analogies start.

This time it went pretty fast. Post #57 by @restorer-john brings the car into play.
For this john gets the car analogy award.

But also the old school award, because the use of vu meters in electric cars falls by the wayside.
Yet the vu meter is the most important instrument of an e car, with the red zone at the other end of the scale.
But thanks everyone for the fruitful input.

I am now taking a break to go to the marquesas islands for underwater treatment of my tinnitus. I look forward to getting something to read from cars again in february.

stays healthy