Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Snoopy]

Well, I guess you are surprised then.
There is some quite heavy trade in used discs here, also.

It’s great that used LPs and CDs are still sold. At least the stuff doesn’t end up in landfills. And gets replaced by a rerelease.

Same goes for vintage audio equipment.


But obviously artists make no money this way.

 

[fpitas]

artists make no money this way.

Literally true. But you may pick up some of their stuff and decide you really like it, leading you to buy newer material.

 

[EJ3]

It’s great that used LPs and CDs are still sold. At least the stuff doesn’t end up in landfills. And gets replaced by a rerelease.

Same goes for vintage audio equipment.


But obviously artists make no money this way.

By discs I was not talking about CD's per se, there is much action in trading used DVD's, Blu Ray's & 4K also.

The above is in the New & Used Record stores. Of which there are several in this Tri-County area of around 800 thousand people.

The population (for me, anyway) became too thick when it went over about 700 thousand people.

I thank God that I am on a deep water (5 ft. [approx. 1 & 2/3 meters] deep at my floating dock at low tide, about 11 ft. {approx. 3 & 2/3 meters} at high tide) and my view from the back yard is marsh, creeks, 2 moderate to heavily trafficked bridges and the harbor, so no one can build behind me.

The developer's would develop a way to fill that in & build on it, though, if it weren't illegal.

 

[Robin L]

By discs I was not talking about CD's per se, there is much action in trading used DVD's, Blu Ray's & 4K also.

The above is in the New & Used Record stores. Of which there are several in this Tri-County area of around 800 thousand people.

The population (for me, anyway) became too thick when it went over about 700 thousand people.

I thank God that I am on a deep water (5 ft. [approx. 1 & 2/3 meters] deep at my floating dock at low tide, about 11 ft. {approx. 3 & 2/3 meters} at high tide) and my view from the back yard is marsh, creeks, 2 moderate to heavily trafficked bridges and the harbor, so no one can build behind me.

The developer's would develop a way to fill that in & build on it, though, if it weren't illegal.

But I was talking about music only on physical media. As was Sal.

 

[Leporello]

Are you familiar with the standard curve? (AKA the "bell" curve) Some people went the extra mile to create excellence. Another musical plague has been the use of compression (AKA the loudness war)

No, there was nothing particularly wrong about early cds or early cd players. The curious feature of these claims is that they are almost never supported by specific examples. Often, having read these claims, I manage to get my cd player (purchased in 1985) to play a few cds from the early eighties. Nothing wrong with the sound.

Cd replay has not changed very much since the 1980s. What has changed is audiophiles' perception of the sound - in other words they have gotten used to it.

 

[Robin L]

No, there was nothing particularly wrong about early cds or early cd players. The curious feature of these claims is that they are almost never supported by specific examples. Often, having read these claims, I manage to get my cd player (purchased in 1985) to play a few cds from the early eighties. Nothing wrong with the sound.

Cd replay has not changed very much since the 1980s. What has changed is audiophiles' perception of the sound - in other words they have gotten used to it.

When CDs first appeared, I was working at Tower Records, Berkeley and read all the audiophile rags. This was 1984. My perception of purely digital sound at the time was that it lacked the edges of LP reproduction and also the reverberant qualities of "live" music. I assumed the sound of CDs was wrong. Classical music customers at the store took to the format immediately but I felt at the time it was a step down from the best analog. Now I realize that LP sound has pre/post echo that inflates hall sound and adds extra distortion that gives LP sound that "edge". But it took me a long time to get to the point where digital sound seemed "real" to me. That took, among other things, a lot of recording of classical music using a simple mixer, some Neumann microphones and a DAT recorder with a good outboard ADC. Hearing the sound in the room where it was being performed and then hearing the microphone feed made me understand the contribution that the microphones made to the sound. Before this, my standard was the sound of LPs, didn't have nearly as much experience with the sound of unamplified live performance. Listening to the audio chain through the ADC made me understand how little the digital recorder altered the sound of the microphone feed. That ADC - the tc electronics M 2000 - also functioned as my DAC (the M 2000 was designed as an effects box, adding digital delay and reverb to recordings). I found the tc M 2000 also improved the quality of sound of all my CDs. It was a 20 bit device, came out in 1995 and has been discontinued.

Just yesterday I was listening to a 1984 all digital CD on Chandos. It has many of the qualities often ascribed to early digital recordings. Some would find it excessively dry and bright. I find more warmth in later all-digital productions, also more compression. But I've also heard musical performances in modern venues that were too bright and too dry, recorded a few myself. Right now, I'm listening to a 1981 digital recording (Bruckner 6th, Wolfgang Swallisch, Bayerisches Staatorchester on Orfeo) with rich and detailed sound. I'm now using the Topping E/L 30 combo, find the sound quality of modern, cheap, digital gear amazing.

 

[Leporello]

Just yesterday I was listening to a 1984 all digital CD on Chandos. It has many of the qualities often ascribed to early digital recordings. Some would find it excessively dry and bright. I find more warmth in later all-digital productions, also more compression. But I've also heard musical performances in modern venues that were too bright and too dry, recorded a few myself. Right now, I'm listening to a 1981 digital recording (Bruckner 6th, Wolfgang Swallisch, Bayerisches Staatorchester on Orfeo) with rich and detailed sound. I'm now using the Topping E/L 30 combo, find the sound quality of modern, cheap, digital gear amazing.

Indeed, I own a few Chandos cds (Prokofiev symphonies and Piano Concertos). The sound balance is certainly on the bright side - but this is just like today. Some recordings are brighter than others. I think that in Chandos's case it is a matter of the companys's sound ideal rather than of any problem with early digital. Many early digital recordings do not have the bright Chandos sound (fwiw, I actually find the brightness subjectively pleasing in the Prokofiev symphonies).

 

[Robin L]

Indeed, I own a few Chandos cds (Prokofiev symphonies and Piano Concertos). The sound balance is certainly on the bright side - but this is just like today. Some recordings are brighter than others. I think that in Chandos's case it is a matter of the companys's sound ideal rather than of any problem with early digital. Many early digital recordings do not have the bright Chandos sound (fwiw, I actually find the brightness subjectively pleasing in the Prokofiev symphonies).

Right, this is a perfectly subjective choice. I happen to be very fond of many of the Astree productions, bathed in hall reverb. Different horses for different courses and all that.

 

[Angsty]

Cd replay has not changed very much since the 1980s. What has changed is audiophiles' perception of the sound - in other words they have gotten used to it.

What has changed is the baseline for excellent metrics and the easy availability of ultra-high performing chips. Jitter, noise and linearity are way better than the 1980’s consumer audio components.

However, most of that extra performance is wasted on CD-quality audio as the measured performance difference really is not audible.

Arguably, the differences between digital filters may be audible, but good filter algorithms from the 1980’s still perform well today. It’s just math.

 

[Mean & Green]

Sometimes if you want a physical copy of something vinyl is the only option, which I admit I find annoying but at least it looks funky.

Also in this case it happens to sound excellent.

 

[deweydm]

Bubble of vinyl’s cultural cachet continues to expand. There’s a scene in the new film Leave The World Behind, where a character essentially uses his record collection and listening room to make a women “like him again”. Entire movie is kind of a cautionary tale about the need for physical media. </kidding>

 

[Robin L]

Bubble of vinyl’s cultural cachet continues to expand. There’s a scene in the new film Leave The World Behind, where a character essentially uses his record collection and listening room to make a women “like him again”. Entire movie is kind of a cautionary tale about the need for physical media. </kidding>

One can hardly find any modern televisual production where a turntable isn't on display.

 

[Anton D]

Definitely a meme, a trope, even.

What is it saying?

 

[EJ3]

Literally true. But you may pick up some of their stuff and decide you really like it, leading you to buy newer material.

That is a frequent happening with me.

 

[mhardy6647]

There’s a scene in the new film Leave The World Behind, where a character essentially uses his record collection and listening room to make a women “like him again”.

My wife would* like me quite a bit better were I to rid our domicile of "our" (mostly my) record collection... and (probably) "our" listening room, too!

____________________________
* I should qualify this modal auxiliary verb, i.e., would probably like me...

 

[fpitas]

Definitely a meme, a trope, even.

What is it saying?

I *think* the average person thinks that makes you serious about being an audiophile.

 

[deweydm]

My wife would* like me quite a bit better were I to rid our domicile of "our" (mostly my) record collection... and (probably) "our" listening room, too!

____________________________
* I should qualify this modal auxiliary verb, i.e., would probably like me...

Would have been much funnier if my own wife hadn’t gone to bed by time the scene with the record collection came up.

 

[Galliardist]

It’s great that used LPs and CDs are still sold. At least the stuff doesn’t end up in landfills. And gets replaced by a rerelease.

Same goes for vintage audio equipment.


But obviously artists make no money this way.

On the other hand, the artist has already been paid more than they will if I stream their album several dozen times, from the initial purchase.

The issue with used discs though is that much of the time the disc has already been through a few hands and ripped before it reaches you, if it's anything at all popular.

Still, you've done the right thing by buying the disc and so having the "licence" to play it legally.

 

[Galliardist]

No, there was nothing particularly wrong about early cds or early cd players. The curious feature of these claims is that they are almost never supported by specific examples. Often, having read these claims, I manage to get my cd player (purchased in 1985) to play a few cds from the early eighties. Nothing wrong with the sound.

Cd replay has not changed very much since the 1980s. What has changed is audiophiles' perception of the sound - in other words they have gotten used to it.

Ah, but there have been some changes over the years. For example, a lot of players today don't recognise pre-emphasis (so older discs with pre-emphasis play back brighter). HDCD discs also can have a changed sound on a player that doesn't know about them.

Drives have also changed over the years, though I don't know how much of an effect that has had.

 

[MattHooper]

Interesting article in Forbes on possible changes coming for vinyl sales data, as that has become a more important revenue stream:

Clash Over Luminate’s Record Sales Data Shows Importance Of Vinyl

An argument about how to increase the accuracy of vinyl sales reporting shows the increasing importance of this data to the music industry.

www.forbes.com

Excerpts:

After a decade and a half of growth, vinyl is now reestablished as a significant part of the music business, bringing in well over $1 billion in revenue last year. An argument about the accuracy of vinyl sales reporting that has been brewing over the past couple of months shows the increasing importance of this data to the music business, even as the proposed changes carry the risk of delegitimizing the data.

After its near-death in 2006, vinyl now accounts for a bigger portion of industry revenue than CDs, downloads, and digital radio, and likely more than all of them combined if you count used vinyl. Physical music products as a whole constitute 11% of total revenue.

In the case of vinyl, there is a slice of the music business that is particularly vinyl-heavy: rock. Luminate’s year-end data report for 2022 showed that rock sold more in vinyl than all other genres combined. According to the major-label source, albums from indie-flavored rock bands like Green Day and Blink-182 sell particularly well on vinyl and at indie stores; if those numbers are underreported, then those bands—and that genre—will be underrepresented, just as grunge and hip-hop were underrepresented in the pre-SoundScan days.

Interesting about Rock selling so well. I wonder why exactly. Because it's not just old rock but newer rock.

I remember early on getting the newer RUSH remastered vinyl releases and being blown away. It seemed to sound more 'right' and more ballsy and present than the digital versions I'd been listening to for decades. A bit like re-discovering them again, and it really got me re-buying all their albums. Then it was Van Halen 1, again...sounded incredible...so I bought all the re-issues which sound great. And on and on for other rock groups. Even the newer prog/rock stuff I've been buying, Animals As Leaders, Polyphia, Plini and others, sound fantastic. Maybe it's somehow a genre that suits the vinyl "sound" to a degree (for some ears).

I presume more likely it's a bunch of other influences mixed in, something about the demographics of who buys that music, probably the fact Rock sort of went underground and so newer bands needed vinyl revenue to help out, and maybe the older rock feels nostalgic so it goes hand in hand with a nostalgic playback format.

Any thoughts?