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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

killdozzer

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First, if you are trying to make sense of the vinyl renaissance, you are least likely to get an accurate answer from someone who doesn't care for vinyl. We tend to be pretty poor at understanding why other people do things that we personally don't care for, and thus tend to resort to more facile "explanations" (e.g. "it's just a hipster thing" or whatever).
Quite the opposite. If it's a renaissance, something is driving it and although you see your extension to objects you hope will represent you as beautiful, it can account for only you and will not explain the drive of the renaissance. You not being a hipster hardly says anything about all those hipsters that are for the biggest part driving the renaissance. As I said, VHS is also coming back. So is Aperol-Spritz.

Only a disinterested person can provide an answer. And the answer is that people like you are more or less a steady number ever since records were dethroned, but this new up-rise is a fad. iPods, beards, Apple ear-buds, man-buns, tattoos, records... I'm sorry if that bursts your bubble, but kids didn't just decide to take you for a role-model :D and you alone are not making it a renaissance.
 

MattHooper

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It also amazes me how so many vinylphiles seem to be attracted by all the extra- musical things. Instead of music they seem to be interested in the act of listening to music. If you are truly connected with music you do not need a particular medium to keep you away from doing something else.

Because that's how the human mind works. Experiences don't occur in isolation. Many factors can be involved.

I'm passionate about dining at excellent restaurants. The food can be fantastic in of itself, but if the atmosphere, service, company etc are wonderful it elevates the experience. I know people who couldn't care less about that stuff...in fact I know some who view food as simply "feeding the whole in their stomach when they are hungry." But many people find the context impacts an experience.

Similarly, I'm a movie fan. So much so that I went to the lengths of meticulously designing my projection-based home theater room.
You could say "well if you are really in to movie watching then all that stuff wouldn't matter." My wife, for instance, is perfectly fine watching movies on her laptop. Does the fact she can watch a movie on anything mean she is the deeper movie fan than I am, or does the fact I spent so much time and money to elevate my experience of movie watching mean I'm the bigger enthusiast? It turns out: I'm more enthusiastic about watching movies - I watch far more movies than my wife. Similarly, my wife and kids are fine listening to music on ear buds and laptops. I can enjoy music that way too, but I also like the "elevated" or additional elements that come with great sound quality. As it turns out I listen to more, and more varied music than they do. (Doesn't mean my listening to music is any more virtuous - just that my attention to other details, and how they impact my listening experience, doesn't entail I'm not "truly connected to the music.")
 

killdozzer

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As you are clearly not interested in a good faith conversation, I won't reply to your many ad hominems. Instead, blocked.
Well, I must say after all the nonsense about digital you wrote, that hardly seems fair. You even argue like a vinyl boy! :D
 

killdozzer

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People!!
It's about why it's coming back, not why you stuck with it. You're so focused on yourselves. You're not making it come back.
 

Robin L

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What I can't figure out is why so many people that have no interest in something spend so much time thinking and talking about the people that do. It seems like every one of these threads start and end with "I outgrew" and some form of why the group that isn't into vinyl is inferior.
It is almost like going "You think the food you eat is more enjoyable than what I eat??? I'LL SHOW YOU!!"
I also think the range of responses reflects the range of experiences people have. When LP reproduction is at its best, it's a lot like digital with a little extra something that makes it seem more physically present, like Mr. Hooper said. But I have little doubt that his experience is on the far edge of what is possible. I've only heard that on one system, designed, owned and operated by John Curl. I suspect the moral of that tale is measurements ultimately count. But I digress. With LPs, every little thing counts, with digital, every little thing is counted to a level of precision not possible with analog reproduction. That Sisyphus thing with vinyl appears to be its own reward, overcoming the limitations of the format and coming up with something that sounds remarkably good helps to justify the pursuit among those that do. However, don't expect to get the quality level of the Topping E/L 30 combo in a $300 vinyl front end. And for many people, their experience of LPs is limited to something like an AT-120. Not terrible, but noticeably worse than what is coming out of the smartphone via streaming. For those sorts of people, it's mostly game over right from the start.

In my case, LP collecting went from 1968 to 2019 and the quality of my playback gear was all over the place. I was never really satisfied, but in retrospect I realize I was chasing after something that doesn't exist. I suppose more than one of us have imagined that if we could simply remove that one last veil then we would find ourselves in the room with the musicians. Maybe with a new stylus profile or cryogenically treated interconnects. What I did find out, in time, is the that cleaner the window, the easier to see the dirt on the other side. So, reduction in distortion does not only lead us closer to the performer, but also and at the same time to a much clearer sonic view of the various noises and distortions we have loved and lived with for so long that are baked into the original session tapes.

It's not possible for a single disc LP of Beethoven's 9th to survive the process, but 15 minutes a side is not a particularly high bar for an "audiophile" LP, having it run at 45 rpm could smooth some stuff out, making the album two discs instead of the original one makes it seem all the more collectible and so on. So, for those like MattHooper and Watchnerd, the distance between LP reproduction and CD reproduction is very narrow. sound quality is much better than one would expect, there's something fun about the cool toys and so on. For most of the rest of us, the distance between LP playback and digital playback is very wide. But, and at the same time, there is something reassuring about the physicality of the format that has its appeal in our virtual world, and that appeals to those who are not all that concerned with sound qua sound.
 

MattHooper

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Quite the opposite. If it's a renaissance, something is driving it

Yes, much of which I explained.

and although you see your extension to objects you hope will represent you as beautiful, it can account for only you and will not explain the drive of the renaissance. You not being a hipster hardly says anything about all those hipsters that are for the biggest part driving the renaissance. As I said, VHS is also coming back. So is Aperol-Spritz.

Only a disinterested person can provide an answer. And the answer is that people like you are more or less a steady number ever since records were dethroned,

Like I said: I ditched records in the 80's for digital and only got back in to vinyl in the past few years. So, no, I'm not some vinyl stalwart.

Yes of course there ARE elements of bandwagon hopping, with little actual commitment, in the vinyl resurgence. But to try to brush most people's motivations under that rug is silly. The elements of owning and playing vinyl records I wrote about - the general satisfaction that can be found in owning and playing physical copies of music etc - can be found repeated in the stories of people of all ages getting in to vinyl, whether they are Gen Xers, Millenials, or Gen Zers. Countless news stories interviewing vinyl converts have shown this, and anyone can visit places like the reddit/vinyl threads to see the motivations and enthusiasm of young people getting in to records. But, of course, that's only relevant if you care to actually understand the motivations of others.


but this new up-rise is a fad. iPods, beards, Apple ear-buds, man-buns, tattoos, records... I'm sorry if that bursts your bubble, but kids didn't just decide to take you for a role-model :D and you alone are not making it a renaissance.

Yup, that's the type of facile analysis I was talking about. Basically a stubborn refusal to understand the various factors and motivations people have for doing something you don't care for, and to therefore impute only the most disparaging, superficial motivations you can throw at them.
 

MattHooper

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One could say you're an 'experience of watching' a move fan.

Same with this fellow apparently:


:)

Of course the same could be said of anyone on ASR. We are here because we also care about the experience of music - most find better sound quality elevates their music listening experience enough to invest in better audio gear and participate in forums like this discussing how to do so.
 
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carewser

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Yup, that's the type of facile analysis I was talking about. Basically a stubborn refusal to understand the various factors and motivations people have for doing something you don't care for, and to therefore impute only the most disparaging, superficial motivations you can throw at them.
As much of a digiphile as I am and have turned my back on analog a long time ago (so Matt and I disagree about our chosen formats), there's got to be more to it than just bearded, man-bun, trend-seeking hipsters buying turntables and LP's because i'm sure plenty of folks on reddit that proudly show off their turntables fall way outside that demographic

I just think people on reddit that do this have more money than brains because i'd prefer to save my money rather than squandering it on turntables and LP's

Charleski, in that graph you posted showing sales of different musical formats one format was, "downloaded", is that MP3's?
 
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Robin L

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I just think people on reddit that do this have more money than brains because i'd prefer to save my money rather than squandering it on turntables and LP's
You're right, you could be spending it on coke.

Of course, if you could afford to blow that much on blow, you probably already have a fancy turntable anyway. Too late to stop now.
 

JeffS7444

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Many hope for this to be true. We would all like to see some resistance since it's all but dead. But I don't see it. Kids love Code, Cloud and CAD. Hell, the tt I mentioned is probably made in CAD. You know things have gone too far if elders have to read-in resistance into over-privileged, snot-faced snowflake's consumerism. If there's one thing you can't commodify it's resistance. I doubt it's that.
I don't think that a hunger for sensory experiences need be mutually exclusive with comfort in the virtual. Remember Pokemon Go?

In a way, some of the disadvantages of physical media may be what makes them fun! Your vinyl choices are limited, so choices need to be made. New records are relatively expensive too, so choose carefully. Get to know your limited selection really really well. Even the limited playing time per side of an LP can have it's advantages: 20 uninterrupted minutes or so is a good duration for really intensely listening, whereas I think the endless playlist approach inevitably winds up being background noise, and regarded as more of a commodity than an Experience.

Special-edition CDs have tended to be kind of boring by comparison: You usually get the same ole packaging, and same boring disks, but maybe a bunch of "bonus" material that you didn't particularly want, certainly nothing that you care to display as art or a keepsake.
 
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carewser

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Simple: sound quality.

Heresy, I realise, but I can only speak from my own experience which is this: after 20 years of pursuing the digital dream I decided to try some of my old records and was blown away by what I heard, compared to what I was used to for those past years: MUSIC. Toe tappingly, head bobbingly engaging MUSIC. And it was the same, again and again - each record I tried sounded way more enjoyable than the same digital album, particularly with an all analogue recording. Now I'm 95% vinyl and 5% digital in my active hi-fi listening.
Were Paul Klipsch alive today he would like your perspective because he named his heresy speaker for similar reasons

I remember hearing similar arguments in the late '80's for LP's only people back then used ethereal terms to describe the sonic benefits of analog but it just seemed to me that many of them had amassed enormous record collections and were unable/unwilling to basically start collecting all over again so they did everything they could to justify analog, not to mention the fact that many of them sold turntables which put them in an obvious conflict of interest. I can't criticize someone for preferring one medium over another even if one to me and most seems vastly superior. Enjoy your LP's I say
 
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carewser

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You're right, you could be spending it on coke.

Of course, if you could afford to blow that much on blow, you probably already have a fancy turntable anyway. Too late to stop now.
Hahahaha, at least coke makes you feel good for a while, vinyl not so much
 
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JP

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Of course the same could be said of anyone on ASR. We are here because we also care about the experience of music - most find better sound quality elevates their music listening experience enough to invest in better audio gear and participate in forums like this discussing how to do so.

I'm not so sure. Much of how many, or event most, of us pursue this hobby isn't a straight-line to better (accurate). I could argue that most of my gear is of the best at this juncture in time, but reality is my old gear exceeded audible thresholds, as did my gear before that. It'd seem where I am today has nothing to do with blameless reproduction.
 

Ralph_Cramden

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I mean, who could resist? :p

81KaQ+jhfzL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 

JRS

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It makes tons of sense to me :)

First, if you are trying to make sense of the vinyl renaissance, you are least likely to get an accurate answer from someone who doesn't care for vinyl. We tend to be pretty poor at understanding why other people do things that we personally don't care for, and thus tend to resort to more facile "explanations" (e.g. "it's just a hipster thing" or whatever).

So...from someone who IS in to vinyl, here's my explanation (which I've given before since this question comes up every once in a while).

I was almost all digital music since the late 80's, and later ripped all my CDs to used a music server. I also added streaming. Now I could stream to my hi-fi system from the convenience of my listening sofa using my ipad or iphone. The world was my oyster! Endless choice at my finger tips. What could go wrong about that?

Well, human psychology can get in the way. It's like asking "Hey, you love the chocolate cake made by your favorite bakery, right? Well, how about having that EVERY DAY? Why wouldn't that be PERFECT?" It's a "seemed like a good idea at the time/be careful what you ask for" scenario.

I found myself constantly surfing music, as I would the internet, flicking to the next song, saving favourites I rarely re-visited, because there was always something new at my fingertips. I rarely listened to a full album. I had "Music ADD." I felt more disconnected from the music.

Further, digital music is absolutely ubiquitous: it's coming out of my desktop computer, my phone, from our smart speaker in the kitchen, our car. It's just constantly there and available and especially with streaming it's like music has become more like wallpaper, something in the background. Something cheap, endlessly available. Less special.

I found getting back in to vinyl solved my "music ADD." When I put on a record I feel more focused on the task of just listening to music. I virtually always get through an entire album side, and usually the full album. So while person A who isn't in to vinyl may find the "effort" a "distraction" to the music, person B may find it actually aids their focus on the music. I'm in the latter category.

I find I enjoy the physical aspects of actually holding the music in my hand when I pick up a record. Of seeing it transcribed in the grooves. Conceptually, it's really cool. A vinyl record in my hand can bring on nostalgia (e.g. one of the records I still own from my youth) or it can have "the thrill of the new" - a pristine, newly pressed, gorgeously packed just-released soundtrack in vinyl for instance. Holding a brand new beautifully designed album provides me FAR more pleasure than just tapping the screen yet again on my iphone.

And the fact it costs more for an album, as well as tracking down music on vinyl I want, means my music collection is more closely curated. I'm more connected to my music collection, I know it better, and I only have music I love.

I also like how buying new vinyl means more money going to the artist, rather than the pittance they get from streaming. It's one reason my brother, like so many musicians these days, is selling his music on vinyl. He can actually make a bit of money for his work. Most bands now want to release their music on vinyl. It's not only that they can make more money selling vinyl vs streaming. These days even many young musicians say that for them, holding their completed album in physical form, on a vinyl album, feels like the ultimate sense of "completion" and satisfaction. Rather than the music simply being sent off in to the digital ether. Humans have connections to physical things. Many young people who only ever interacted with music as 1s and 0s are discovering how this can change their relationship to their music.

And...turntables! Turntables are just COOL! (If you are in to them). I went all out and bought a neato turntable and it gives me an aesthetic, conceptual and tactile "kick" every time I use it. I get to interact with this cool object every time I spin music. Which, again, just pressing another button on my computer or swiping another "screen" is hardly a thrill these days.

In fact, playing vinyl allows me to unplug from the digital world. I'm on computers all day long, my phone tugging for attention all day long. Listening to a record is like taking a break from interacting with yet-more-god-damned-screens. Like reading a real book instead of picking up the ipad again.


Finally there is the sound.

Vinyl tends to sound different than digital. When I had my original modest turntable, I enjoyed the sound of vinyl as a different alternative to digital. When I upgraded my turntable vinyl sounded even better...fantastic actually. It sounded for the most part super clear and vivid, like my digital music, but also with a slight bit of "texture/tone" to the sound that I actually often preferred. Not always, but surprisingly often. (I have a good digital set up, Benchmark DAC 2L etc). PLUS, the way you can fiddle with the sound - different cartridges, cartridge settings, impedances and all that, scratches the "fun to tweak" audiophile itch in me, where my digital front end is just sort of set-and-forget.

So FOR ME, vinyl provides a significantly richer overall experience in terms of collecting and listening to music. I love the physical form, the art, holding albums in my hand, I love owning a neato turntable, I feel more connected to the music "physically" owning it, playing vinyl leads me to relax and focus better on just listening to music, and I get fantastic sound quality in the bargain.

Plus...I still have my digital to stream whenever I want to. (Which I still do).

As for the wider revival: yes there is a certain portion of "some people getting in to it because it's cool now." But for the most part you will find many elements of my experience repeated over and over from people who have got in to vinyl, whether it's long time audiophiles or young people who had become "dulled" by the ease and ubiquitous access to digital music, who find all sorts of pleasure from owning music in a physical form (and supporting artists, etc). If you go to, for instance, the reddit vinyl forums, you'll see posts every day by people just getting in to vinyl - often younger people - and how thrilled they are to own albums, to hunt them down, how much they like their newfangled turntable, etc.

This is why it's gone far past the point of "fad" and has been in an upward trajectory for around 15 years, with no signs of stopping.

Hope that helps you understand why other people are buying vinyl, even if it holds no appeal to you.

My turntable :)

View attachment 196728
Music ADD--that along with your answer is an absolutely brilliant description of the difference. There is so much to be said for the attentive mindset (mindfulness?) that is engaged when listening to a beloved LP. Sort of like reading a book vs the cliff notes, or gettig togther with an old friend over coffee vs texting back and forth on IM.
 

JRS

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My main source of streaming are internet radio stations. I'd have a very hard time giving some of those up!

Also I "watch/listen" to a huge amount of music on youtube. It's often where I discover new music.
Something to be said for watching--I ended up on Dire Straits YT thread not long ago, and must say I haven't had that much music fun in a long time. I love concerts, but spending 75 bucks for tickets not so much. Wish there were a service just for high quality concert footage. That might not only rekindle the passion for audio generally, but might even get me to take a foray back in to a surround set up.
 

Ricardus

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To add to what I said in my last post. When I was growing up, and in high school, when our favorite bands came out with a new record, my friends and I would all get together at someone's house, and we'd get a pizza and some sodas (or beers later) and we'd listen to the album beginning to end. That's what I mean about the ritual of vinyl. I miss that. Listening to music was social.

A few days ago someone in another thread said 44.1Khz sampling rate was the worst thing that happened to music. He wasn't even close. The worst thing that happened to music was the Sony Walkman. First cassettes then CD Walkmans. That made music listening an isolating experience, and it all went downhill from there.

I mean, they're cool and all for when you're on the bus or subway and want to be left alone, but I think people kinda got used to it. The social ritual of listening to music went away.
 
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