Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[levimax]

If an LP and a CD and a streaming file all sounded identical (which in many cases for all practical purposes they do) which would you rather listen to? Many people would prefer to listen to LP's for all the reasons they mention and others would listen to CD's or streaming for all the reasons they mention. For me I like all 3 depending on my mood and the situation. Not sure why people are concerned about how other people listen to music.... fun to argue I guess.

 

[freemansteve]

I've never heard an LP that didn't have all sorts of noise, especially after a few plays, so I can't see the comparison is valid.
I agree that that may not bother many people!

 

[MattHooper]

This is me. Big system, small system, car, ear buds - I don't care. Songs give me goose bumps no matter how I'm listening to it. And I ditched LPs ages ago. Nowadays streaming is everything. If people like LPs - good on'em, just not for me ever again.

My main source of streaming are internet radio stations. I'd have a very hard time giving some of those up!

Also I "watch/listen" to a huge amount of music on youtube. It's often where I discover new music.

 

[BJL]

There are a few good reasons why someone might buy music on LP, even though it is an obsolete and inherently inferior medium:

1. Recordings where the original mix is no longer available, for example early Genesis albums are no longer available in the original mix, or recordings that still have not been reissued in digital formats. I have a few dozen LPs (or more) that have not been released on CD etc.

1. For marketing reasons, the music is not available in any digital format. A couple of examples: Dr. John "The Sun Moon & Herbs" 50th Anniversary expanded edition (Run Out Groove) with 70 minutes of additional material (3 LPs); The Grateful Dead first album, mono, (Rhino) no CD or other digital release, also nicely mastered (AAA) and pressed. Both could have, but were not, released as CDs or downloads, maybe streaming? No idea.

2. The CD/download is poorly mastered. Example: Tom Petty "Mudcrutch" (WEA) released as a double LP with an audiophile CD, mastered as the LP with minimal compression vs. the commercial digital release which is (or at the time of first release was) loud and compressed. The CD was only available with the LP set. Interesting article on this release https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/business/media/23petty.html?smid=url-share

3. The LP mastering is worthwhile even where the CD/download version is good. Example: Doc & Merle Watson "Never The Same Way Once" (Owsley Stanley Foundation) released as an seven CD set mastered by Jeffrey Norman, and a two LP short version, mastered by Paul Stubblebine (AAA mastering). Both are excellent and valid, yet the LP has a somewhat different sound, although I suspect it is more related to the differences in approach by the mastering engineers, rather than the medium.

The scam here is where the LP is mastered from a digital tape, (as are most LPs these days), in which case the LP reissue is pure marketing, (e.g. Abbey Road Studios phony half-speed mastered from digital sources) or the label deliberately released the digital format with poor mastering to hype the LP (e.g. Mudcrutch example above).

I still purchase vinyl a few times a year, but only when I have no choice.

 

[killdozzer]

I'm a member of a couple of reddit audiophile threads where people post pictures of their rigs and most of the time they include turntables and every time I see one my mind is blown because I outgrew vinyl only a few years after buying my first CD player in the '80's. Back then I had a tape deck, a turntable and a CD player but once I heard digital I knew they was no going back yet people en mass are and I find it baffling given all the benefits of youtube. The first and most obvious benefit is, it's free. Secondly, youtube has an almost endless catalog of music, with the original music video, the karaoke versions of songs, live versions and videos that include the lyrics. Thirdly, the convenience of simply clicking my mouse a few times and opening up a world of music is pretty alluring. I always wondered about the sound quality though so I bought a CD a few years ago to compare youtube to CD and couldn't hear any difference. LP's on the other hand can only be played one at a time, require time, money and effort to obtain and play and also require money and effort to maintain and as your collection of LP's grows it obviously becomes more expensive and takes up space-something youtube doesn't yet most reddit audiophiles are flocking to them

Does the vinyl renaissance make sense to you because it sure doesn't to me

I see resurgence of old tech spreading. It's not based on specs or performance. It's just sentimental. Be it nostalgia or fad, it's sentimental. I write off most of explanation even the hardcore vinyl fan boys offer as I see them as wanting to present it in a favorable way and tell stories about them selves.

I see young people who never owned tt or records going into it, buying chain-store brands like Auna and going to SH shops buying records scratched as hell. So those few going on about sleeve art or the ritual are hardly covering the phenomena.

(Not to even mention those who think they need a record to listen to the whole album, forgetting, I suppose that if there's one medium where you can't do precisely that, it's the record. No flipping a CD half way through last time I checked. )

Oh yes, VHS is also coming back. It's bigger than records, so I doubt "record-explanations" are worthwhile. Old tech is just in favour at the moment. (I have a tt in memory of my old man, it used to be his)

 

[killdozzer]

Jerry Lee, retro gramofon, LP, USB, smeđi

Želite se vratiti nostalgiji prošlih vremena? Onda iz podruma donesite svoje omiljene stare gramofonske ploče! Na uređaju Jerry Lee marke Auna s kopčama i metalnim dekoracijama kvazirabljena dizajna nećete moći puštati samo gramofonske ploče triju različitih veličina, ...

www.electronic-star.hr

This is Auna

 

[Jim Shaw]

... Does the vinyl renaissance make sense to you because it sure doesn't to me

Is there a "vinyl renaissance"? Let's take a look. Every time some pro-vinyl pundit wants to show how popular the vinyl hobby has become, he states sales starting from about the year 2008 or so. By then, vinyl was a cooked goose, way past its prime. Let's put this "vinyl renaissance" in perspective by looking at when vinyl was the favored distribution for music. The following is from Wiki whose numbers came from RIAA:

We can see that the vinyl renaissance is about as earth-shaking as is Beany-baby collecting. So why do producers extoll the vinyl renaissance? Possibly beacuse they make a chunk of cash from it. A music stream is essentially free, once you subscribe, and a year's subscription is about the price of two 2022 vinyl albums. Vinyl "collectors" are a cash-cow for producers. They are already paying for the studio production costs. It costs a little more to take that studio file and hand it to a vinyl mastering outfit who will massage it into a plastic record.

Money. That's why producers are jumping on the plastic bandwagon. Money $$$$.

 

[MattHooper]

The scam here is where the LP is mastered from a digital tape, (as are most LPs these days), in which case the LP reissue is pure marketing, (e.g. Abbey Road Studios phony half-speed mastered from digital sources) or the label deliberately released the digital format with poor mastering to hype the LP (e.g. Mudcrutch example above).

To be clear: Are you proposing that:

1. LPs marketed as coming from an analog master, but which derive from a digital master, are a scam?

If so I'd agree. That's false advertising.

Or:

2. Any LP mastered from digital is a "scam."

?

In which case I'd disagree. I have tons of new vinyl releases that came from digital masters. They aren't claiming to be otherwise, they sound
fantastic, and I get all the things I wrote about from the vinyl LP. Sound quality doesn't come from the type of master - analog or digital - it comes from the quality of the master, so I don't care per se if an LP came from either.

 

[MattHooper]

I see resurgence of old tech spreading. It's not based on specs or performance. It's just sentimental. Be it nostalgia or fad, it's sentimental. I write off most of explanation even the hardcore vinyl fan boys offer as I see them as wanting to present it in a favorable way and tell stories about them selves.

First, if you are trying to make sense of the vinyl renaissance, you are least likely to get an accurate answer from someone who doesn't care for vinyl. We tend to be pretty poor at understanding why other people do things that we personally don't care for, and thus tend to resort to more facile "explanations" (e.g. "it's just a hipster thing" or whatever).

^^^ bears repeating.

 

[JeffS7444]

Maybe the kids are saying "no" to an overly-virtual life of Code, Cloud and CAD? Today's premium and limited-edition vinyl are often beautiful objects, and I figure that their value as sound recordings is secondary.

Since the 1970s or 80s, the trend has been away from the tactile experience to one of "look but don't touch", save for remote controls with rubbery buttons or metal dome switches - nothing too satisfying there!

 

[julian_hughes]

... I outgrew vinyl only a few years after buying my first CD player in the '80's. Back then I had a tape deck, a turntable and a CD player but once I heard digital I knew they was no going back...

Me too. Never looked back with nostalgia to the sound quality, the fact that vinyl is fragile, warps, wears out etc. I clearly recall plenty of vinyl LPs sounding atrocious because they were so poorly pressed. The thing I loved was the huge artwork and booklets, gatefold sleeves and sticker sets and all that. On the other hand most record companies and stores slapped stickers on the cover which couldn't be removed without tearing the artwork....doh! I do miss those giant fold out booklets though. Some were pretty much works of art in themselves.

Someone made a good point about the horrible "Loudness War" CDs/streams but that's about the idiocy of the producers and artists concerned, not the medium. I listen to mostly orchestral/instrumental/choral music and it has never been an issue in these genres. I have a few rock/pop etc. CDs which suffered compared to the vinyl but most have since been remastered again and better.

 

[drmevo]

It's a hobby, an interest ... doesn't have to make sense Nostalgia and the tactile pleasure of handling a well designed record is up there too.

Exactly. Just borrowing from my other hobbies…Why fly fish when a spinning reel or baitcaster is more efficient, can cast further and is easier to learn? Why shoot a longbow or recurve when a much faster and more accurate compound bow is available? We all have different goals and different things satisfy us as individuals. It’s surprising to me that this need to be explained so often around here. Arguing superior fidelity is a separate matter and I would never claim vinyl is superior, but I find it enjoyable as long as the pressing is good and there’s no damage.

 

[MattHooper]

Is there a "vinyl renaissance"?

Yes, of course there is.

That's why we are talking about it.

That's why there have been numerous threads about it on ASR and many other forums.

That's why it's become a ubiquitous news story and entered the pop culture consciousness.

It's why there are forums devoted to it. It's why audio stores, including big box stores, are back to selling turntables. It's why stores large and small are selling vinyl.

Nobody is of course claiming vinyl is going to actually compete with streaming for market share. That's just a sort of strawman approach to understanding the phenomenon.

The point is vinyl, which was seen as "almost dead and headed for extinction" revived it's fortunes, has been selling more and more every year for 15 years, even to the point of entering popular culture again. Most popular artists now release (or want to release) their music on vinyl. The powers behind marketing and sales are making vinyl part of the sales platform because of this sea change regarding vinyl. They couldn't make a "chunk of cash" as you put it, on vinyl, if this significant change in vinyl popularity hadn't arisen.

It's now pretty standard for even minor or indie bands to want to release their music on vinyl. My brother is a tiny indie musician and it was virtually a given that he'd also release his music on vinyl. 15 years ago none of this would have been the case. There are constant news stories on how the demand for vinyl far outstrips the capability of producing it, so bands are waiting up to a year or more sometimes, to get records pressed. So there is even more demand than even the sales reflect.

15 years ago I had a single dusty old hold-out record store within walking distance. Now there are FIFTEEN within about a 2-4k radious of my house. I go in there and they are usually busy with people of all ages buying vinyl. When my son's friends come over and see my turntable etc, vinyl is no longer some weird mystery thing, more often than not they say "Oh yeah, we have a turntable and records too."

This is an entirely different scenario than we had 15 years ago. It's why we are talking about the vinyl renaissance now, and why there are stories on it almost every day in the news.

So, if the point of a graph like that is to say "Look how much more popular streaming is than vinyl" that's hardly news. But if it's to imply "there isn't really anything signficant in the purported vinyl renaisance" that would be pretty misleading and missing the point, IMO.

 

[Westsounds]

It's something about the distortion we like

It's not as clean, doesn't have anywhere near as low a noise floor but digital still can sound for want of a better word boring, most of it just sounds the same as well. I don't know how many fancy dacs I've owned and kept swapping because the sound has ended up annoying me and left me with listening fatigue.

Dont generally have any of those problems listening to it played analogue. And I've never been a turntable swapper, I've had a few but never always had a burning desire to wish things sounded more natural or human. Dacs and CD players I do.

Of course digital is better, the convenience, the versatility and of course detail and clarity. Still I do enjoy listening to a good sounding record. Even on not a fancy deck. And no dac required

 

[caught gesture]

And getting up of the sofa every 20 minutes to change sides gets old very quickly ...

Ironically the very act of getting up every 20 minutes will likely help you get old better.

 

[killdozzer]

Maybe the kids are saying "no" to an overly-virtual life of Code, Cloud and CAD? Today's premium and limited-edition vinyl are often beautiful objects, and I figure that their value as sound recordings is secondary.

Since the 1970s or 80s, the trend has been away from the tactile experience to one of "look but don't touch", save for remote controls with rubbery buttons or metal dome switches - nothing too satisfying there!

Many hope for this to be true. We would all like to see some resistance since it's all but dead. But I don't see it. Kids love Code, Cloud and CAD. Hell, the tt I mentioned is probably made in CAD. You know things have gone too far if elders have to read-in resistance into over-privileged, snot-faced snowflake's consumerism. If there's one thing you can't commodify it's resistance. I doubt it's that.

 

[blueone]

It also amazes me how so many vinylphiles seem to be attracted by all the extra- musical things. Instead of music they seem to be interested in the act of listening to music. If you are truly connected with music you do not need a particular medium to keep you away from doing something else.

Many people are attracted to rituals. An obvious example being religion, but there are many others. I know a couple of people still into film photography, and developing the film in their own dark rooms. I had no idea you could even buy the chemicals and paper anymore. One person I met into this told me how it puts him more in touch with his photos. And then there's the old car people, with their insistence on rubbing their paint with carnauba wax, when most know deep down that a car wash with a polymer sealant mixed in produces a similar, if not better, result. Ritual sometimes makes people feel better and more "connected".

 

[ta240]

What I can't figure out is why so many people that have no interest in something spend so much time thinking and talking about the people that do. It seems like every one of these threads start and end with "I outgrew" and some form of why the group that isn't into vinyl is inferior.
It is almost like going "You think the food you eat is more enjoyable than what I eat??? I'LL SHOW YOU!!"

 

[blueone]

What I can't figure out is why so many people that have no interest in something spend so much time thinking and talking about the people that do. It seems like every one of these threads start and end with "I outgrew" and some form of why the group that isn't into vinyl is inferior.
It is almost like going "You think the food you eat is more enjoyable than what I eat??? I'LL SHOW YOU!!"

Because it makes us feel smarter than we really are, telling others how irrational they are.

 

[freemansteve]

Is there a "vinyl renaissance"? Let's take a look. Every time some pro-vinyl pundit wants to show how popular the vinyl hobby has become, he states sales starting from about the year 2008 or so. By then, vinyl was a cooked goose, way past its prime. Let's put this "vinyl renaissance" in perspective by looking at when vinyl was the favored distribution for music. The following is from Wiki whose numbers came from RIAA:View attachment 196787
We can see that the vinyl renaissance is about as earth-shaking as is Beany-baby collecting. So why do producers extoll the vinyl renaissance? Possibly beacuse they make a chunk of cash from it. A music stream is essentially free, once you subscribe, and a year's subscription is about the price of two 2022 vinyl albums. Vinyl "collectors" are a cash-cow for producers. They are already paying for the studio production costs. It costs a little more to take that studio file and hand it to a vinyl mastering outfit who will massage it into a plastic record.

Money. That's why producers are jumping on the plastic bandwagon. Money $$$$.

It's not looking good for any format by 2020.
I blame too many derivative artists boring people into giving up on music!