Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[IPunchCholla]

You took your time, but I hate to tell you you completely missed my point. We all know the live/recorded subject, it's old. But it gains new life here for many record-lovers insist on life-like and the sound signature makes it so distinctive and recognizably not natural (far less than digital). So my question is if sound sig. makes it life-like, than life must be less like life for them bc there's no records' sound sig.

I don't really agree the difference is not big. Perhaps if you spend 20 folds on tt side. I never heard record that came close to digital. And these tests you can perform easily by input selector.

I don't even trust ALL the ppl who say they prefer the sound of records. I think a good portion are just full of it. Sadly, I witnessed a number of them picking digital over records in blind test being absolutely convinced that they picked a record bc what sounds better = record. When you show them, they accuse you of cheating. They seem to be biased that whatever sounds better must be a record cause that's what they've been told. So they hear a diff and they pick what's better, but they just wrongly expect it to be vinyl. They get angry when faced with results.

If people are arguing that the like vinyl because it sounds more like live music, then I agree with you, that argument doesn’t hold water in my experience.

I can hear a difference between digital and vinyl, just not a big enough one for me to not enjoy either. I can actually enjoy music in my car, with the Windows down, if we want to go to truly flawed listening experiences.

 

[mightycicadalord]

We've been hearing the word "fad" since the beginning of the vinyl resurgence.

I think it's a fad because I've known many folks in my life who have a tenious interest in music have approached me to purchase a turntable, they all used them for like a few months and now none of them listen to vinyl at all. For everyone I know personally that got into vinyl it absolutely was a fad for them.

 

[Leporello]

But the popularity of vinyl has far wider and varied explanations than the question of sound quality - the tangibility aspect, the collectibility, the connection it gives people to their music collection, the way lots of people find they focus more in attentive listening to vinyl, the allure of turntables, supporting artists (vs streaming residuals), taking a break from the digital world, the communal aspect of record stores/vinyl community, etc.

This is typically what people tell others and themselves, too. Like in most fads people keep parroting the same points of view they read in the Internet - until some new fad takes over.

Truth to be told, in the heyday of vinyl:

1. Cover art was not very important. Actually, we had record sleeves instead of cover art.
2. Record buyers did not have a deeper connection with music.
3. Listening records was not more communal than streaming is now. Why would it be? Those with social capital were communal, loners were not even if they listened to records. Just like it is today.
4. After awhile crate digging became boring. Most people celebrating it now have never done it. They just read about it while ordering vinyl from Amazon.

I could go on, but most of the reasons people give for listening to vinyl are fake memories from an era which never existed. Apologies for being a cynical curmudgeon.

 

[BinkieHuckerback]

Nostalgia is not what it used to be.

 

[JRS]

Probably not available, but having access to some kind of demographic report on who buys lp’s and in what proportions, could help us better understand what is really happening. Also knowing if records are majorly bought by long time vinyl user or new comers would be insightful

So these data are few years old and offer some insights:

Vinyl destination: who is actually buying records?

YouGov says middle-aged men – not millennials – are fuelling the record renaissance. We hit the stores of Soho to test their data

www.theguardian.com

Who Is Buying Vinyl Records? Surprising Statistics Emerge

So, who is buying vinyl records? According to recent data, the younger set is driving the trend with nearly 50% of buyers 35 and under.

www.digitalmusicnews.com

The most detailed demogrphic report is below which neglects collectors purchasing used vinyl. The most striking stat IME is that 1/2 the records don't get played (at least according to one source, suggesting collectibility is a factor and/or cover art and notes another.

 

[BinkieHuckerback]

But who's listening to vinyl?

 

[Mart68]

This is typically what people tell others and themselves, too. Like in most fads people keep parroting the same points of view they read in the Internet - until some new fad takes over.

Truth to be told, in the heyday of vinyl:

1. Cover art was not very important. Actually, we had record sleeves instead of cover art.
2. Record buyers did not have a deeper connection with music.
3. Listening records was not more communal than streaming is now. Why would it be? Those with social capital were communal, loners were not even if they listened to records. Just like it is today.
4. After awhile crate digging became boring. Most people celebrating it now have never done it. They just read about it while ordering vinyl from Amazon.

I could go on, but most of the reasons people give for listening to vinyl are fake memories from an era which never existed. Apologies for being a cynical curmudgeon.

agree 1 to 3 (although we did admire a good sleeve design) but the crate digging I do miss. It's not the same with CD.

 

[MattHooper]

That's not the question it was answering.

That's not how things read.

You'd responded to billyjoebob who wrote:
Much as I'd like to agree with ya, this "fad" has been going steady for over 15 years..
Isn't a fad typically 1-2 years max?

Your reply : Astrology has been going on for centuries, maybe millennia. Homeopathy for 150 years. Bullshit doesn't have an expiration date.

...is clearly a response to the billyjoebob's statement about fads being shortlived.

And I think the response appealing to "b.s. having no expiry date" was a red-herring, IMO, for the reasons I gave.

Billyjoebob also said there must be something to explain this long trajectory. You've mplied the explanation was to be found in the Uwins paper.

Clearly you didn't read the Uwins paper, it addressed EXACTLY why some people have a vinyl preference. With experimental data to back it up. But it's so much more fun to wave hands and type prodigiously.

Yes I have read Uwins paper, and just re-visited it again.

It's titled:

Analogue Hearts, Digital Minds? An investigation into perceptions of the audio
quality of vinyl

So...just as I said, it concentrated on the specific issue of "why people believe/perceive vinyl sound quality to be superior."


From the study:

"The study concludes that sound quality is not the sole defining
factor and that listener preferences are profoundly influenced by other, non-auditory attributes and that such factors
are as much a part of the vinyl experience, as the music etched into the grooves."

And:

"This investigation has given a clear indication that the
reasons behind the recent resurgence of the vinyl LP are
numerous and rejects the hypothesis that audio quality is
the sole defining factor."


^^^ Exactly what I have been arguing! The sound quality, perception or otherwise, is NOT the sole defining factor.

I think you are right that, from the experiment, Uwins does suggest the role of expectations and non-sonic influences for why people
can believe vinyl "sounds better."

However, it's incorrect to imply as you did that these factors have been ignored in the thread.

I, and other vinyl enthusiasts, have continually explained the non-sonic attributes that we enjoy about vinyl, and which can also contribute to how we experience and perceive listening to music. So it's not the case throughout this thread these factors haven't been ignored. They have been engaged.

And as I have said, the experiment was mostly concerned with perceptions of sound quality and wasn't even attempting to be a comprehensive
test of or explanation for the vinyl revival. Which is the subject of this thread. Even people who don't think vinyl sounds better are buying it for lots of the reasons I outlined.

 

[MattHooper]

I think it's a fad because I've known many folks in my life who have a tenious interest in music have approached me to purchase a turntable, they all used them for like a few months and now none of them listen to vinyl at all. For everyone I know personally that got into vinyl it absolutely was a fad for them.

It seems dubious to assess anything as a "fad" based on how long any individual had interest.

I know people who dabbled in owning a motorcycle. Who briefly got in to running. Vegetarianism. Playing ice hockey. You name it.
Are all those fads? No. Fads or trends are determined by the ongoing prevalence, or not, in a population, not based on individual dalliances.

 

[MattHooper]

This is typically what people tell others and themselves, too. Like in most fads people keep parroting the same points of view they read in the Internet - until some new fad takes over.

This implies rejecting many of the reasons I've outlined for enjoying vinyl. This suggests you have better insight in to why I enjoy vinyl than I do.

If the reasons I gave for why I like vinyl are false...can you tell me the real reasons, and how you know this?

That would help in determining how credible your rejection is in terms of other people giving similar reasons to mine.

Cheers.

(This gets at the phenomenon I've argued: that we tend to be fairly poor at understanding why others like something, when we either dislike it, think it is silly, or just don't share their passion. Instead of accepting the reasons they give, people who think the enthusiasm is silly will think "Nah, it's still a silly choice, nobody can really have good reasons for it, so they don't REALLY have the reasons they claim...I'll attribute some more simplistic, more shallow reasons instead.")

 

[bkdc]

Because I'm struggling to understand my subjective experience. Vinyl is inferior. Digital is perfect. Yet, I *much* prefer vinyl for music replay because it SOUNDS superior to me. So I was simply laying out my thought process.

Apologies if I offended the sensibilities of the digirati. Jeez. I'm blocking myself now.

Bias cannot be avoided without blinding. But it's moot. If you love vinyl, then stick with vinyl! We live in a market economy (to an extent)!

 

[Cote Dazur]

So these data are few years old and offer some insights:

Vinyl destination: who is actually buying records?

YouGov says middle-aged men – not millennials – are fuelling the record renaissance. We hit the stores of Soho to test their data

www.theguardian.com

Great, thank you, nothing like data to shed light .
Extract.
“the much talked-about record resurgence is driven not by a boom in millennials who want to embrace the novelty of a physical item, but by midlife nostalgia. Those who have recently purchased a vinyl album are most likely to be aged between 45 and 54, apparently. In fact, those in the 18-24 age group are the least likely.”

“According to a new ICM poll, nearly 50% of vinyl buyers are under the age of 35. Approximately 16% of people buying vinyl records are aged 18-24 and 33% are aged 25-34. That flies in the face of previously-held notions of the typical vinyl buyer. One stereotype is that baby boomers are rushing back to record stores to relive their younger years. Indeed, many older people trashed their vinyl collections in the 90s in favor of CDs, and sorely regret that decision. And make no mistake: the older set is buying vinyl records. But they’re actually outnumbered by younger people who weren’t around during vinyl’s original heyday.”

 

[DWI]

A digital download or a donation, instead of yet another thing that will take space and collect dust

I have lots of space and no dust

 

[mightycicadalord]

It seems dubious to assess anything as a "fad" based on how long any individual had interest.

I know people who dabbled in owning a motorcycle. Who briefly got in to running. Vegetarianism. Playing ice hockey. You name it.
Are all those fads? No. Fads or trends are determined by the ongoing prevalence, or not, in a population, not based on individual dalliances.

Well I know these people and have for a long time, one is a chronic fad chaser and changes his lifes calling about every other month.

Here's an easy way to figure it out, just had to ask them why they were interested. Some didn't really know just thought it looked cool. Some thought vinyl provided the best sound quality.

 

[mightycicadalord]

To add to what I said in my last post. When I was growing up, and in high school, when our favorite bands came out with a new record, my friends and I would all get together at someone's house, and we'd get a pizza and some sodas (or beers later) and we'd listen to the album beginning to end. That's what I mean about the ritual of vinyl. I miss that. Listening to music was social.

A few days ago someone in another thread said 44.1Khz sampling rate was the worst thing that happened to music. He wasn't even close. The worst thing that happened to music was the Sony Walkman. First cassettes then CD Walkmans. That made music listening an isolating experience, and it all went downhill from there.

I mean, they're cool and all for when you're on the bus or subway and want to be left alone, but I think people kinda got used to it. The social ritual of listening to music went away.

I feel this so very much.

 

[Westsounds]

Here is the real scientific answer

 

[killdozzer]

I think it's multiple trends and fads that compromise the overall 'movement'.

Ah, yes. I would agree. But among all record lovers, I'm trying to distinguish those that could have caused the increase in sales. No matter how unpleasant some might find it or take offense (and they shouldn't in my opinion), a huge portion is very hipster. And not only that, a significant portion is ill informed. I state this easily because I meet people who didn't own a turntable or KNOW that the sound of records will suit them, but they simply heard it from some vinyl-fan-boys and bought into it. You know, without "listening for themselves" that sound signature lovers endlessly profess. So they're simply ill informed. Acting upon what they've been told and not what they truly felt as their liking.

I think it's the people that really love records that take offense and make it impossible to have any discussion. But they're wearing pink shades. Trying to postulate that the come-back speaks about their choices which are better and superior for one reason or the other. All the while it couldn't be further from the truth as any half-decent, casual reader of economy will tell you; you can't widen your market with regulars. Regulars are regulars. They were always there and their spending is a constant.

So you're obviously getting new customers if you have a significant increase. And this is the interesting part, who are these new customers? Why they started buying records? The ones I mentioned are the ones I see/talk to/meet in everyday life or in on-line groups. If you know any others, do share.

Besides, we mustn't forget two very important things, as it has been repeated, records have higher numbers than CDs, because digital moved on, so it's not a huge win and even the decrease of CD sales can make records sales look bigger if you're comparing the two back to back. The other thing is that all the old tech is on the rise. I mentioned this a couple of times after all those "holy masses" about the only good life, the smug mindful ones who are on higher planes than us pigs and whose connection to music is much too delicate to be purchasing anything but records which is why it's only logical the sales are on the up-rise while oddly not being delicate enough to hear how crappy the sound is. The tapes are spiking, the VHS is coming back... Anything that can come back, does. Even the fad of old gaming consoles.

I have a feeling every new thread about records comes about and vinyl-crowd simply resumes exactly where they have been offended the last.

 

[killdozzer]

100%, yes. I rip all my vinyl the first time I play it at 192/24. When I play those files back on the same system they do not sound like the live replay of the vinyl.

While in fact it's close to 100% no.

 

[dasdoing]

fmpov it is just a combination of two hobbies: audio and collecting

 

[Cote Dazur]

From the information I have seen in this thread, it seems that the vinyl “revival” is mainly fuelled from 2 groups.

1. Mature buyers, who either have always been using vinyl, or returning to vinyl, taking advantage of vinyl record being available again. Those know what they are getting for their money, appreciate lp’s for different reasons, one of them is the musical rendition.

2. Younger generation, with no or very little vinyl exposure, getting into lp’s for a very wide gamut of reasons, most of the time those reasons have nothing to do with any musical advantage.

From the point of view of a mature user, the whole aura surrounding vinyl and lp’s, among a demographic that have little or no idea what vinyl is really about, is probably just an other sign on how our society is “evolving”. In an era where access to data as never been easier, it seems sometime, that large part of the population are, more the ever, relying on rumours and uncorrelated information to make an opinion.
As a mature lp’s user, having access to vinyl, is unexpected and very much appreciated.