Buckeye vs Apollon 6525 which ?

[dawg]

Hi,
Been reading through all the topics on these 2 different amps, just need some clarification if anyone is using certain features.
The Buckeye amp has 2 features i like, but are they really required ?
2 features, soft start/stop and auto sense, whereas the Apollon doesnt.
Anyone have experience with Apollon amps? Do they pop when switched on or off ? Even if amp is switched on last/off first ?

The other aspect is the Op amp rolling, which Apollon has but not Buckeye.
Obviously different op amps will sound different, but what can i expect from having that op amp rolling feature ?

Buckeye doesn't have op amp rolling feature, why not ? Is it simply overall not real world value ?

Would really like the 9040 stereo version from Buckeye, that would have me sold, but none are for sale, bummer..

Both amps are great, but I'm leaning slightly toward Buckeye for the autosense feature, but the Apollon op amp choices has me pondering, so any suggestions please..

 

[JPA]

I have an Apollon IET400A. No on/off pops at all using the 12v trigger. I have not used autosensing.
The opamp rolling feature is a non-issue. You wouldn't be able to hear a difference between different opamps.

 

[dawg]

Ok thanks.
How's the 1et400 going for you ?

 

[Doodski]

2 features, soft start/stop and auto sense, whereas the Apollon doesnt.

2 very nice features to have. Recommended.

The other aspect is the Op amp rolling, which Apollon has but not Buckeye.
Obviously different op amps will sound different, but what can i expect from having that op amp rolling feature ?

OP amp rolling is a gamblers game. To simply plug in different OP amps is not good because you could end up with a oscillating OP amp and that's a bad thing.

Which amp is more local to you? Like are you in the USA?

 

[elmoe420]

My Apollon 1ET400 amps do make a slight pop/crackle when they turn on and no sound when they turn off. I have my pre setup to always start at low volume anyway though so the brief sound when they turn on is not bothersome.

 

[dawg]

I'm in Australia, woop woop from anything. Will be importing an amp.
The only local is March audio but I'm not into their amps.
Unfortunately the dollar here vs USD sucks, though Euro dollars are the best value.
Buckeye would cost nearly 3000$ AUD vs apollon at 2.4k$, yeah it's crap.
So I guess less the OP amp potential issues aside, Buckeye is a good choice so far, disregarding the USD premium.

I'm sure they have compensated op amp oscillations in circuit but only Apollon would know & I'm not going to bother asking them.

 

[quattro98]

For a Euro purchase, there’s also Boxem.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I’d go with the Apollon.

Its design is much more appealing (at least to me), and I’ve found that most autosense functions I’ve encountered tend to be unreliable. Maybe it works flawlessly on a Buckeye amplifier -I wouldn’t know.
Personally, I prefer the certainty of knowing whether it’s on or off, and for that reason, I always recommend using a trigger over any autosense.

The Apollon also features a switch for different sensitivity levels, which is incredibly useful for optimizing it within your system. Does the Buckeye offer the option to adjust sensitivity?

The ability to swap out the op-amps could be considered a pro, depending on whether that’s something you’re interested in. Personally, I think it’s more likely to cause issues than deliver improvements. If you do notice a difference, it’s probably because the op-amp isn’t properly matched to the complementary circuitry. But that’s a discussion for another thread.

 

[dawg]

Yep, think I'll skip the rolling this time, I've mucked about with op amps before, many years ago when designing stuff and wasn't over the moon with respects to minimal performance variations.

It's gonna be a close call, I do like the Apollon case implementation vs Buckeye.

But yeah, for me the autosense has got my vote +1 to Buckeye, so far. 12v trigger to me is a pain as the preamp hasn't any output trigger, and I rather would not add extra bits for a trigger circuit or boxes, minimising clutter.

Hopefully autosense is low enough for this preamp, I hate having to turn up the volume for autosense.

I think , there's 3 gain options on the buckeye 6525, I better check.

Edit* yes there is low med high gain options

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Is the gain readily switchable like on the Apollon?

 

[Extreme_Boky]

The only local is March audio but I'm not into their amps.

why not... ??

 

[Extreme_Boky]

Appolon amps will give you a lot of flexibility: 4 gain settings, TO220 voltage regs for OPAmps (which you could upgrade with TO220 LT3045/LT3095), and the dreaded OPAmp rolling... useful (you can colour the sound signature to blend better with the rest of your system/personal preferences) -> if you ensure there are no oscillations (oscilloscope needed).

The fact you could go with LT3045/LT3095 very low noise voltage regs is definitely NOT to be overlooked.

 

[Doodski]

OPAmp rolling... useful (you can colour the sound signature to blend better with the rest of your system/personal preferences) -> if you ensure there are no oscillations (oscilloscope needed).

How is he supposed to know if he actually improved or decreased the sound quality? To roll the OP amps requires extended time and in a fraction of a second the memory for sound is erased in humans. So rolling is a gamble and as much as it might be improved under a extremely good random guess it can be decreased in sound quality.

 

[Extreme_Boky]

No matter what you choose, I think (based on horror stories I read here on these forums) you should demand the certificate of compliance with the stated spec sheet from ANY of the amp manufacturers.

They should really approach the initial test, soak (a 24-hour test with a bit of capacitive load as well), followed by the final test - very seriously.

 

[dawg]

Yes the gains are easily switched on the Buckeye.

March amps no thanks, better and cheaper options around, it's 7k$ for 2 monos here in Oz. I'm sure they're fine but...

As much as I would enjoy rolling op amps, and testing them oscilloscope or not, just ain't too fussy about the effort and payoff these days, come to think of it. Nice to have though. If it's there I may try rolling in the future but again, I'm not fussed.
Besides, will need to spend over 2k$ to try various op amps..

The compliance issues, yes well, that's a grey area for some amps, have to double check everything myself anyways since in my experience some are absolute shockers with their particular testing. No guarantee until I check it myself, unfortunately.

 

[dawg]

Just to wrap up, thanks for the replies it has helped narrow down the choice amp.
I'll be asking Dylan from Buckeye about his 6525 amp, and go from there.

Good to see a solid community here.

 

[JPA]

Ok thanks.
How's the 1et400 going for you ?

Best amp I've ever had. Amplifier hiss is extremely annoying to me. With a Marantz AV 10 preamp and the Apollon amp there is no hiss at all, even at maximum volume.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Yes the gains are easily switched on the Buckeye.

March amps no thanks, better and cheaper options around, it's 7k$ for 2 monos here in Oz. I'm sure they're fine but...

As much as I would enjoy rolling op amps, and testing them oscilloscope or not, just ain't too fussy about the effort and payoff these days, come to think of it. Nice to have though. If it's there I may try rolling in the future but again, I'm not fussed.
Besides, will need to spend over 2k$ to try various op amps..

The compliance issues, yes well, that's a grey area for some amps, have to double check everything myself anyways since in my experience some are absolute shockers with their particular testing. No guarantee until I check it myself, unfortunately.

I am seeing 2400 presumably Aussie dollars for two March monos on their site. Possibly I'm not looking at the correct one?

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Okay, 3600 Aussie. My bad!

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Not wishing to derail, but I am seeing two of them in the UK at less than £2000. Milled aluminium, five year warranty. What's not to like?