Which Purifi Amp to order

[boXem]

My final contenders are the Apollon stereo and the Audiophonics HPA-S450ET

Out of curiosity, what makes you prefer a trigger to the audiosense?

 

[boXem]

I can't imagine choosing a trigger over audio sense. I like that I don't need that extra cable or have to worry if it's going to work properly.

That's also my opinion but I see more and more people asking for a trigger, so I want to understand the reason behind this. If there is a serious trend here, I need to be aware of it

 

[Sokel]

That's also my opinion but I see more and more people asking for a trigger, so I want to understand the reason behind this. If there is a serious trend here, I need to be aware of it

What's most important is not the kind IMO,but the option to be defeated (on my amp at least,I have both and if I defeat triggers auto sense is defeated as well)

 

[blackiridium]

I looked at that model. The price seems reasonable but I don't see an auto-sleep function after no music for 10 minutes and I don't use a trigger with the ADI-2 DAC FS. I also can't determine the quality of the binding posts and there isn't an option for upgrades. Lastly, the case looked a little thin and cheap to me. The weight seems to verify that guess. It will be interesting to see how cool it runs and what the energy draw will be in idle mode or 1-2 Watts. If you buy it maybe you could share what you find?

The Apollon is almost twice as much as the Audiophonics HPA S450ET. Crazy.

The comparable Apollon version is actually only 200 euros more. The dual mono version is significantly more for some reason. Apollon is telling me that the cooling is better on the dual mono due to a bigger case.

 

[blackiridium]

That's also my opinion but I see more and more people asking for a trigger, so I want to understand the reason behind this. If there is a serious trend here, I need to be aware of it

Are your chassis anodized or painted btw?

 

[boXem]

Are your chassis anodized or painted btw?

Painted

 

[Buckeye Amps]

That's also my opinion but I see more and more people asking for a trigger, so I want to understand the reason behind this. If there is a serious trend here, I need to be aware of it

If I'm not over stepping, I can give you some insight into the reasoning I have found with customers when asked why they prefer 12v over Auto (Audio) Sense if it at all may help you with having more data points: past experience with Auto Sense not always triggering due to signal level (mainly on subwoofers). A cable that carries a consistent and instantaneous On/Off signal is peace of mind to them. Akin to running an Ethernet cord for certain components even if WiFi is now just as fast/robust in nearly all situations.

Just sharing if it helps.

 

[boXem]

If I'm not over stepping, I can give you some insight into the reasoning I have found with customers when asked why they prefer 12v over Auto (Audio) Sense if it at all may help you with having more data points: past experience with Auto Sense not always triggering due to signal level (mainly on subwoofers). A cable that carries a consistent and instantaneous On/Off signal is peace of mind to them. Akin to running an Ethernet cord for certain components even if WiFi is now just as fast/robust in nearly all situations.

Just sharing if it helps.

Thanks for your insight. That's also what I'm suspecting. A bit frustrating after spending a lot of time and effort to have a system that actually works tbh

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Thanks for your insight. That's also what I'm suspecting. A bit frustrating after spending a lot of time and effort to have a system that actually works tbh

To be honest, this might stem from earlier experiences with similar systems. Personally, I’d opt for the trigger as well, since 6 out of the 7 subwoofers I’ve used with autosense had issues: either A) failing to turn on with low signal levels or B) shutting off during low-volume, low-bass content playback.
So I understand the need to know that it's on when it's on.

 

[makak]

That's also my opinion but I see more and more people asking for a trigger, so I want to understand the reason behind this. If there is a serious trend here, I need to be aware of it

I’ve got another case, where autosense isn’t ideal. I’ve got an AV receiver before the pre for movies/TV and when I’m watching news with interviews and similar (mono?) content (eg. ZDF Journal), the upmix of the stereo source goes just to the center. So the amplifier (used for L+R front) would go off and on several times, based on the content - mix of interviews and “normally mixed” content.
I could defeat that by using different/better upmix choice in the Denon AV for the movies (multichannel) and TV (stereo) and even automate it, but I’m too lazy for that.

On the other hand, my wife tends to leave the pre on after listening to streamed music so I’m happy to have the autosense in this case.

 

[pogo]

For me, spending additional 800 for dual mono is of no real benefit. You will not be able to hear any difference (e.g. when it comes to potential cross talk etc)

I was just wondering why you didn't hear any difference (depending on used speakers, PSUs used, ...?). Or is that just a guess?
I have now listened to the NAD M23 several times, once as a single power amplifier and in-bridge mode/double mono configuration in same setups. No matter at what volume, an improvement could be heard.

 

[PloddyPastard]

Just a guess - should have been more clear on that.

 

[Fledermaus]

IME and FWIW, during a few months use (A series monoblocks), boXem autosense didn't fail to fire up once, nor did cause any untimely shut-down - IOW, works exactly as expected.

 

[Koeitje]

Thanks for your insight. That's also what I'm suspecting. A bit frustrating after spending a lot of time and effort to have a system that actually works tbh

I have audio sensing on my ADAM subwoofer, I have to have make sure I deliver an input to trigger it turning on and then I still miss the first second of audio (my fronts also are fed from it). A trigger would just turn on the sub the moment the source is turned on.

Sometimes the fancy solution isn't always the best.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

Thanks for your insight. That's also what I'm suspecting. A bit frustrating after spending a lot of time and effort to have a system that actually works tbh

I have devices with audio sense:
- Boxem amplifier (A 5519/N3)
- SVS SB1000pro subs

I had issues with the subs as others experienced, the detection threshold is not low enough and needed significant bass content to wake-up the subs.
But I never had any issues with the Boxem implementation (across 2 different amplifiers) that worked flawlessly even with very low level music.

So, I am now using triggers for the subs and still rely on audio sense for the boxem amplifier.

@boXem your implementation is rock solid and flawless

 

[Buckeye Amps]

The fact, that people still want a configuration that's designed to leave sensitive audio gear on 24 hours a day in 2024 is dumbfounding. Every power company in all 50 states in the USA is running educational seminar's on how to avoid/reduce phantom power. Meanwhile, some users on ASR are still in love with trigger systems designed to leave extra electronic devices in standby mode 24 hours a day/365 days a year. No wonder phantom power use grows each year.

Careful with a large generalization of what Standby means as it depends on the amplifier and the user of the word.

For instance, on a Hypex NCxxxMP amplifier, using either the 12v trigger or the Auto Sense puts the amplifier into Standby, which only draws 0.5W of power. But if left in an Idle state, then power draw would be 5+ watts.

Regarding trigger vs. Auto sense: both rely on the amplifiers Standby SMPS to bring the amplifier out of Standby and into an Idle/ready state. The Standby SMPS is immediately "active" as soon as any mains power is applied. But as stated above, it only draws (in the instance of the NCxxxMP as an example) 0.5W at most. So there is no energy consumption difference between 12v and Auto Sense in that regard.

The one positive for Auto Sense, as you mentioned, is if you forget to power down the source component...then the amp will go into Standby eventually. Though a good number of components (like AVRs and Processors) nowadays have Auto Off features themselves.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Understandable and no one is going to argue that completely turning off the power to a device is the best way to reduce power usage and even miniscule wear on it when not in use.

But 12v triggers and/or Auto Sense functions are necessary for a good amount of setups where turning off power everytime is either not ideal or not possible.

 

[tmtomh]

I looked at that model. The price seems reasonable but I don't see an auto-sleep function after no music for 10 minutes and I don't use a trigger with the ADI-2 DAC FS. I also can't determine the quality of the binding posts and there isn't an option for upgrades. Lastly, the case looked a little thin and cheap to me. The weight seems to verify that guess. It will be interesting to see how cool it runs and what the energy draw will be in idle mode or 1-2 Watts. If you buy it maybe you could share what you find?

The Apollon is almost twice as much as the Audiophonics HPA S450ET. Crazy.

All the brands mentioned in this thread are good options IMHO. As as US-based buyer who purchased an Audiophonics S400ET-based Purifi amp a few years ago, I can say that the binding posts are of good quality, and the case - which is essentially the same one they are using now for the HPA S450ET - is solid and not thin or cheap. The cover and sides are rather thick, and the built-in side heat fins, while not necessary for cooling in my experience, are quite substantial as well.

Regarding the binding posts in particular, no one has to take my word for it, as Amir reviewed an Audiophonics amp in that enclosure and if memory serves commented on the good quality of the posts (not to mention the steller performance of the amp).

 

[Buckeye Amps]

This is where the myth begins, "setups where turning off power every time is not ideal or possible."

Just because what you consider ideal is not what others consider ideal does not make it a myth.

There are plenty of setups where customers do not care about small standby draw of their components in order to not have to turn power strips on/off. This is their choice. It doesn't fit your ideal setup, sure. But not a myth at all for them to want a feature like a Trigger or Auto Sense.

If you want to discuss it more/bring futher attention to how reconfiguring setups that require constant power on/off via mains power is the "best" route, may I suggest making a dedicated thread?

 

[restorer-john]

Last but not least, Luke Skywalk, aka Fred, is a nice contact to deal with

Han. Han Solo. You know, the one who shot Greedo first.