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Best Bang for the buck for AVR with Pre output

sonci

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#41
Couldn't disagree with you more, you sound like a guy in 1955 saying mono is as good as it gets. :p
My current 5.2.4 Atmos install does incredible immersive movie sound presentations that a 2 channel system could never approach.
As for music, there are many here that will argue how big a improvement discreet 5+ channel playblack is over stereo.
Step out of the distant past @sonci, the times they are a changin.
It may be..
Music in 5.1 was not for me, maybe some albums were nice, but just as a gimmick, nothing more.
I'm not a fan of modern movies, the problem I had at the time was that I couldn't get the dialog clear and loud enough, and when it was ok, boom an explosion, and my wife enters..
I never tried Dsp or equalizers, these movies are bad anyway..
 

stunta

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#42
single LSR 308 (center channel)
How is this working out because I want to do the same to avoid yet another amp? Do made-for-center-channel speakers have something special in them besides the form factor? Like some frequency range bump that make the voices clear? I am assuming if that is the case, it can be done using DSP or should already be done in the source material.

So I wanted to ask you what you think about your Integra Pre/Pro and if you would recommend it. Also which model is it?
FWIW, I got this Integra recently, refurbished from accessories4less (I checked with Integra first and they told me these guys are their designated refurb outlet). I am waiting on the basement work to be finished before I will get the 5.1 setup, but so far with stereo using its internal DAC, it works properly. It has Chromecast built in so that was a nice plus for me.

I used to own an Integra receiver. Integra build quality is very good IMO and their warranty is great - I fried an amp module (my fault - shorted the speaker wires) and they replaced it with no questions asked; I only had to pay shipping.

Assuming appropriate mix or DSP processing and a properly treated room two channel is all that's needed to hear sound from any direction since you only have two ears.
Seriously? I would want at least 5.1 for movies - how do you hear the footsteps from behind the camera, the tie-fighters chasing the X-wing etc.?
 

NorthSky

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#43
I agree; 5.1 (minimum) for movies is more fun than just mono and stereo.

For ultra high end music listening in mono/stereo from vinyls and tapes is analog best.
_____

What's really fun today is that you can get an AVR with preouts for almost free.
Or you can go all the way up with the Denon AVR-X8500H AV receiver...with 13 integrated amps (discrete) inside...13.2-channel receiver (good for Interstellar on 4K Blu-ray and Pink Floyd in multichannel SACD). It has preouts too, for all channels.


For movie theater setup, you just need to add fifteen speakers (it's best) and a minimum of two subwoofers (four is better than two). For source, no turntable need applying, just get a universal Blu-ray player/streamer for a song...old Oppo on eBay or new Sony @ Best Buy.
_____

The last quote from the above post... :)
 
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maverickronin

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#44
Seriously? I would want at least 5.1 for movies - how do you hear the footsteps from behind the camera, the tie-fighters chasing the X-wing etc.?
Not much different for the the surround sound downmixers for headphones work. Assign a different transfer function to each channel of the original multi track stream to match the eardrum response from a source at the position the speaker would go in and downmix them all into two channels.

The advantages are that you end up only needing to worry about two stereo mains and maybe some subs dpending on how big your mains are.

The disadvantage is that you end up with a very narrow sweet spot and need a very well treated room to keep reflections from spoiling it.

I'm not saying that an extra speakers for each channel isn't more practical most of the time, just that they're not strictly necessary for fully immersive audio.
 

NorthSky

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#45
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amirm

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#46
Do made-for-center-channel speakers have something special in them besides the form factor?
Not at all. Ideally the center would be identical to left and right so that as sound sweeps from left to center and then right, it doesn't tonally change.

Dedicated "center" speakers were invented because people wanted them in horizontal configuration as to not interfere with the screen much. Left and right can be put outside of the screen frame but not center.

Note that you do not want to put the classic 2-way, MTM speakers on their side. That creates lobing and a trough in frequency response. A 3-way speaker should be used so that a dedicated mid-range handles that problematic area.
 

stunta

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#47
Not much different for the the surround sound downmixers for headphones work. Assign a different transfer function to each channel of the original multi track stream to match the eardrum response from a source at the position the speaker would go in and downmix them all into two channels.

The advantages are that you end up only needing to worry about two stereo mains and maybe some subs dpending on how big your mains are.

The disadvantage is that you end up with a very narrow sweet spot and need a very well treated room to keep reflections from spoiling it.

I'm not saying that an extra speakers for each channel isn't more practical most of the time, just that they're not strictly necessary for fully immersive audio.
That is very interesting. I love it when my assumptions are violated - it means I have learnt something new. Thanks.
 

stunta

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#48
Note that you do not want to put the classic 2-way, MTM speakers on their side. That creates lobing and a trough in frequency response. A 3-way speaker should be used so that a dedicated mid-range handles that problematic area.
So I were to use a speaker like LSR 305, it would be fine as center channel as long as it is placed vertically (at some angle depending on seating height)?
 

amirm

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#49
So I were to use a speaker like LSR 305, it would be fine as center channel as long as it is placed vertically (at some angle depending on seating height)?
Correct.
 

Kal Rubinson

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#51
Not much different for the the surround sound downmixers for headphones work. Assign a different transfer function to each channel of the original multi track stream to match the eardrum response from a source at the position the speaker would go in and downmix them all into two channels.
Sure but no one does that except Smyth.
 

Sal1950

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#53
The advantages are that you end up only needing to worry about two stereo mains and maybe some subs dpending on how big your mains are.
Yeh sure, maybe a very rough approximation but,
I love to hear those 2 speakers create a helo or starfighter flying from far to the rear of my room, across and above the ceiling border like I'm producing with best current Atmos and DTS X studio mixes.

You just see these systems you describe being used by who, where?
 

NorthSky

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#54
Renaissance. ...Charming & Elegance...Michael Fremer.
Kal, you funny guy. :D
Romance is in the air, romance is spinning albums on a turntable.
You are too modern, too much living with the modern times.
Charlie Chaplin made a movie called Modern Times.
 
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NorthSky

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#55
Frantz, which movies did you watch recently...in multichannel surround sound?
Did you give a shot @ Solo: A Star Wars Story?
- Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom?
- Avengers: Infinity War.
- Deadpool 2?
 

FrantzM

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#56
Hi

Star Wars's return of the jedi and Arrival on a 55"" screen ... Right now thinking about a large TV perhaps a 70 inch Vizio ??? <$1000 or a PJ with screen for <$1000 too :D

I am getting so much reward from inexpensive gears ... WOW!!! :D:D
 

FrantzM

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#57
Frantz, which movies did you watch recently...in multichannel surround sound?
Did you give a shot @ Solo: A Star Wars Story?
- Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom?
- Avengers: Infinity War.
- Deadpool 2?
I did see Infinity Wars in the theater... I am not too keen on the WTF ending of a movie that could have been great otherwise.. it screams too much MONEY GRAB to me ..... Although they will get some of mine when Infinity 2 or whatever comes out :p ...
 

maverickronin

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#58
Yeh sure, maybe a very rough approximation but,
I love to hear those 2 speakers create a helo or starfighter flying from far to the rear of my room, across and above the ceiling border like I'm producing with best current Atmos and DTS X studio mixes.

You just see these systems you describe being used by who, where?
Probably almost nowhere. The market would be tiny since few would understand it. I'm totally blanking on the names of the DSPs I've head about doing that specifically for speakers before since I'm mostly a headphone guy.

Have you heard a half-decent surround to headphone/binaural DSP? They can easily put things behind or above you from 'plain' 5.1 mix.
 

Sal1950

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#59
I did see Infinity Wars in the theater... I am not too keen on the WTF ending of a movie that could have been great otherwise.. it screams too much MONEY GRAB to me ..... Although they will get some of mine when Infinity 2 or whatever comes out :p ...
+1000. I walked out of the theater totally pissed due to the ending, Hence the reason I gave it a bad review here.
I'll definitely not be paying the IMAX big bucks to see the followups where we get to learn who and how the killed off characters are brought back to life. :mad:
 

NorthSky

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#60
Hi

Star Wars's return of the jedi and Arrival on a 55"" screen ... Right now thinking about a large TV perhaps a 70 inch Vizio ??? <$1000 or a PJ with screen for <$1000 too :D

I am getting so much reward from inexpensive gears ... WOW!!! :D:D
You don't need to spend only $1,000 for a great looking 70" picture in 4K, or a front projector with screen. That Vizio 4K TV is a good bang for the buck...you won't be missing much of your movies watching impact in regards to picture quality and emotional envelopment.

You can spend more on OLED, on 8K, on a receiver with preouts, on a front projector, ... :cool:

I did see Infinity Wars in the theater... I am not too keen on the WTF ending of a movie that could have been great otherwise.. it screams too much MONEY GRAB to me ..... Although they will get some of mine when Infinity 2 or whatever comes out :p ...
Movies are made to make money, audio electronics are made to make money, AV receivers are made to make money, Infinity War included. Me I like the ending because it's not the end yet. It's the type of resolution that makes you wanting for the next installment, a winning formula in the year 2018. :cool:

Probably almost nowhere. The market would be tiny since few would understand it. I'm totally blanking on the names of the DSPs I've head about doing that specifically for speakers before since I'm mostly a headphone guy.

Have you heard a half-decent surround to headphone/binaural DSP? They can easily put things behind or above you from 'plain' 5.1 mix.
Do you have a receiver with preouts and a headphone jack?
You can add more power and you can add an external headphone amp.

You watch movies with a pair of cans?
 
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