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Best Bang for the buck for AVR with Pre output

maverickronin

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#61
Do you have a receiver with preouts and a headphone jack?
You can add more power and you can add an external headphone amp.

You watch movies with a pair of cans?
It's all headphones for me. All media is played off my PC too. I haven't owned a receiver or even a pair of speakers in years. No space for anything I'd consider worth listening to.
 

NorthSky

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#62
Cool, I like headphones too. And like you said, good point, it saves space.
Instead of big black audio electronics, or silver or gold, and a bunch of speakers everywhere you can have art that you like; paintings, sculptures, nice furniture, art deco, beautiful desks, etc.

An AV receiver with preouts is more for people who are into more serious physical body shaking and assaulting surround sound movie watching from Hollywood blockbusters on Blu-ray or 4K or DVD or Netflix or Vudu or Hulu or HBO or Amazon movie prime or YouTube cinema or all that multichannel surround sound with 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 9 or 11 or 13 or 15 or 24 (high end pre/pro) satellite speakers and a bunch of subwoofers (2 to 4 to 8).

There is a difference between a good pair of cans with DSP and a full home theater setup. Best is to have both, IMO, that way we have more options depending on our mood of the moment, and depending of our room, and the consideration of the family living under that same roof, and the size of the home, the number of rooms, the isolation, the soundproofing system, ...all that jazz.

And we can add more power, external amplifiers with those preouts in the back of that AV receiver.
 

Kal Rubinson

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#63
NAD 758 v3 is my suggestion.
 

FrantzM

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#65
It's all headphones for me. All media is played off my PC too. I haven't owned a receiver or even a pair of speakers in years. No space for anything I'd consider worth listening to.
I have written about my experiences.. repeating some of these here ..

Cans are great. My headphones are magnitude of order more accurate than any of my present (and likely ANY speakers) but they describe rather than try to reproduce the music.. No tactile anything, Accurate reproduction but to me ultimately unsatisfactory ersatz of reproducing Music .. I can't begin to understand how one can fully enjoy a movie through headphones but to each its own and you are in the minority for sure without a shred of doubt...Enjoy your headphones ..
 

maverickronin

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#66
Cans are great. My headphones are magnitude of order more accurate than any of my present (and likely ANY speakers) but they describe rather than try to reproduce the music.. No tactile anything, Accurate reproduction but to me ultimately unsatisfactory ersatz of reproducing Music .. I can't begin to understand how one can fully enjoy a movie through headphones but to each its own and you are in the minority for sure without a shred of doubt...Enjoy your headphones ..
Well like I said, It's mostly about space. Stax or a soundbar?
 

Sal1950

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#68
It's all headphones for me. All media is played off my PC too. I haven't owned a receiver or even a pair of speakers in years. No space for anything I'd consider worth listening to.
I find cans to be great tools for various diagnostic chores and the occasions where speakers would be disturbing to others.
But for the enjoyment of music with visceral impact, speakers take the day.
No matter how good their bass is, they can never match the kick in the ass of a good subwoofer or two. ;)
YMMV
 

NorthSky

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#69
It's probably a headphone jack Kal. Yes it [email protected] the bottom left.
My question was not completely serious; how many owners of AV surround receivers use that jack nowadays...most likely a very small minority.

Frantz started this thread to see what's avail today in AV receivers with preouts and of good value. He did not mention a headphone jack, & I think he has now what we was looking for.

Tonight I'm going to watch Sicario part deux on Blu-ray 4K; it's not a Disney Marvel flick.
And I won't use the headphone jack.

I have no idea. I never use headphones except on an airplane. There's a hole on the front panel that looks like one.
NAD 758 v3 AV Receiver (preouts)

• Review: https://www.soundandvision.com/content/nad-t758-v3-av-receiver-review
• NAD page: https://nadelectronics.com/product/t-758-v3-av-surround-sound-receiver/
_____



Dirac Live in AV receivers like the NAD above is a very good feature today.
If people want to spend some time in fine tuning the sound in their home theater/living rooms.
 
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FrantzM

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#71
Hi

System is more or less operational with an interim TV ... an old 50 inch Vizio. I am leaning toward a large, under $1000 TV if possible or perhaps wait for Cyber Monday or other sales to nab a good TV around 70 inches. Vizio, TCL?? ... PJ is for later and in any case even with a front PJ there must be a TV in the room.
Soundwise: The combination of LSR308 in front ( L,C and R) and LSR305 in the back + plus 3 bucket subs work better than I expected and after almost 7 years of mostly headphones (Audeze, HiFiman and Stax and recently an old eBay-spur-of-the-moment-because-I-always-wanted-to-have-one Koss ESL) the LSR308 are more satisfying than any of those more accurate and more timbrally accurate headphones. I am enjoying these speakers IMMENSELY. While it is true that the JBL are good for the money (or otherwise), ultimately for pure musical enjoyment, especially if one has an audiophile bent and has heard much better transducers, they will remain for HT (and when the new house is finished, replaced with "7"-series and serious DIY subs) . Make no mistake the JBL can play music and rather well but there are limitations ... amongst these their tendency to "shout". However good they are overall, they are not "polished" in my subjective, biased, not-ABX'ed views/evaluations, not "refined" but Oh!! They kick behinds, they rock, they play ... Not missing much but .. you know people, you know :) ... ;) ... :D
This has also been a great learning experience: Came front , the value of Transducers and the general adequacy of inexpensive electronics ... My previous reference for DACs was a CD + DAC costing upard of $30K... It was then replaced by a well reviewed and technically competent DAC that cost $5K ... Then I began frequenting ASR (darn you people!!!) and noticed my audiophiles expenditures going down .. No longer dreaming about this really inexpensive :)rolleyes:) but soo great and so loved amplifiers at >= $20K .... or more or the DAC-of-the-current-month at >$10K... :oops: I discovered along the way the importance of measuring one's own system in one's environment. I am still navigating those difficult waters, those of measuring and of interpreting those measurements and perhaps moving toward Room correction and the likes. The learning curve is steep and I thought I had a clue ... I have none :p... I also thought I had a "Aha" moment when I discovered or better, understood the importance of Room Acoustics a few years ago ... I had no answer however for speakers sounding good in environment that at first looked bad or were bad ... I know now that there are objective attributes of speakers that explain their sounding good in many different environment now and I understand better the importance of good, smooth bass response in the room regions >500 HZ: The bucket subs rattles when I feed them a high level steady tone ( I was trying to measure their THD, had to give up until I fix that buzz...) yet the measured response is rather good and sounds like it too... all that for an entire system costing less than $2500... (pre-pro : $600 + Speakers: $1000 + minDSP :$100 + eBay Rotel 5-Channel amp $600) .. It easily hits 112 dB on movie material at the listening position in my medium size room: (18 x 12 x 9 ft) all speakers roaring ... Surround effects are fantastic and have me dreaming about Atmos although i don't think I am missing much ( Are Dolby Atmos material easily available on Netflix , my main source of movies ATM) ? ...
People!! I am enjoying this and will try to share my journey with you ...
Next is to build a Linkwiz Mini for 2-channel. I was fixated on a Geddes speakers but while I have found one from time to time, the logistics to bring them home are not far from insurmountable ... so it will likely be Linkwitz . as I am discovering the fun in DIY (of the easy-peasy kind which is what the Madisound Linkwitz kits seem to be) or it can be a JBL M2 system plus multi-subs: Slam-dunk and be done!! for 2-channel stereo .. We'll see and I will share with you .
Thanks all ... to be continued!! :)
 
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Sal1950

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#73
Are Dolby Atmos material easily available on Netflix , my main source of movies ATM
Easily? If you have a UHD subscription and all the gear is Atmos capable, some movies that include a Atmos soundtrack will decode that way but not all.
Sady Atmos still had a real hodge podge of support. On disc,, some BD titles include Atmos, other titles make you spring for the 4k disc to get it. A real PITA since IMO Atmos adds a lot to the immersive experience but getting your hands on it can be illusive.
Glad your enjoying your 5.3 rig, sounds to be a highly dynamic rig which for movies is very high on the desired features list.
 

FrantzM

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#74
Frantz, what genre of music are you listening to, type of movies you're watching?
Music spans a wide variety: From Western Classical to Easter Classical, Jazz... Rock ...Hip-Hop ... I can swing form J.S. Bach to Biggie Smalls in a matter of Hours ... :D

Movies ? Same .. I love movies in general but would say it is more US movies , followed by French then West Europe movies although I am watching , thanks to Netflix my fare share of East Asians movies... So a system must be ready to be clear at whisper level to thunderous to satisfy my eclectic tastes... I am not yet into Operas or Concert on BD but the way I am going .. you never know ;)
On Movies the JBL gig does the job well, the sound being anchored by the image on the screen.. With music it is a different situation and I find myself more aware of its failings than in movies ... At least for serious , audiophile guilty pleasure type I do favor at times. For casual listening especially on Pop and Hip-Hop it's good enough.. make no mistake the JBL play well and I enjoy it ... Does that make sense to any of you ? :D
 
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NorthSky

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#75
That's good that you get 112dB on peaks with movie sounds.
That is too loud for me, 90db is plenty, and 105dB with peaks for those movie explosions. I don't want to damage the house foundations. My ears? They are already damaged for too much classical orchestral music exposition.

As for streaming Dolby Atmos, some apps have that yes.
Netflix I don't know, but you can use Dolby Surround on top...the Dolby Atmos up-mixer.

* It's a beautiful Autumn day here, with colors in the leaves of the mountains surrounding the Pacific Ocean. I enjoy life with everything in it, even Flint the dog running around me.
 

FrantzM

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#76
Thanks Bob

I do pay serious attention at sound levels and i make sure that such peaks do not become the custom. I was testing and found it out it was as loud I do not entertain such levels .. Thanks again for the warning !
 

NorthSky

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#78
Thanks Bob

I do pay serious attention at sound levels and i make sure that such peaks do not become the custom. I was testing and found it out it was as loud I do not entertain such levels .. Thanks again for the warning !
I too played with my subwoofers and some movie clips just for fun...with a sound level meter after calibration completed. I turned the master volume control @ THX reference and watched the meter hitting 119dB on peaks from some movie clips. That was about twenty years ago.
I know which movies are hot in the sub frequencies department. I also have demo music with strictly low bass frequencies...those are constant...and the plate amps got real hot, and some resistors can blow out from the protection circuit board...I know it happened to one of my subs...it wasn't producing sound anymore; I just replaced the burn out resistor...twenty cents.

There's a guy who tested his movie sound and he was hitting 142dB in his home theater room! That is danger loud, he was wearing protective hearing devices.

For movies the occasional 115dB peak is normal reference. Bass addicts like that.
In public theaters the sound can be real loud, too loud. I can hear the drivers complaining in few of them theaters. Their managers know nothing about lights and sounds. They hire people but they don't maintain their sound systems and projectors...money I guess.

Ultra high-end stereo music hi-fi audiophiles come in several flavors. But the two main camps are the reserved type and the disco type. ...Reasonable sound pressure versus extreme force...disco dance mode type.

For movies with eleven channels and four subwoofers (as an example), you want the bones in your body snap into smithereens, that's for the bass addicts. For normal people they like to keep their brain under the frying zone. Like more healthy for them and their children. That's probably why Marvel/Disney is cutting the dynamics recently in the soundtracks of their films. You need to raise the master volume from 6 to 12 dB in order to hear the dialogue and feel the subwoofer channel...LFE.
But even then there is something amiss in the sound dynamics.
I think Disney is now doing that to not scare the young children.
This is different than in the past; it started roughly couple years ago.

I love multichannel movie sounds, in particular the music scores well recorded in some flicks. I also love multichannel music only...SACD hybrid, DVD-audio, Blu-ray Audio.
I am not a bass addict, I am a life lover addict...everything. ...Normal balanced life; people, family, friends, music, films, food, nature, mountains, forest, oceans, lakes, flowers, rivers, skies and stars. ...Plus clean water and air.

Yes, I saw the headphone jack, and was aware of MQA support as well.
MQA is everywhere, so it doesn't matter if we like it or not; we are free to engage or not.
It's the same with the air around us; what we do with it.

The day we don't depend on petroleum products and armies equipment (rockets, grenades, landmines, tanks, bombs, high caliber machine guns, ...) it will be the day we free ourselves towards peace and a better world for all. It won't happen in Earth time.

So music and films and gear is good; it doesn't hurt anyone.
 
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Blumlein 88

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#79
For a time I lived with an all LSR305 and sub system for 5 channel sound. I agree the little LSR's lack a little finesse under duress, and don't match top quality speakers for quality music replay. They are very good, and aren't terrible on anything, but just lack the last iota of refinement and resolving ability audiophiles love. I replaced the front right and left speakers with some modest Revels. Those had much of the missing finesse and better resolution on music. So that let me have really good stereo playback and also helped with movies.

I'm not much motivated to replace the LSRs for surround channels though I'm sure a better speaker would make for some improvements there. I'm still using an LSR305 for the center channel. That usually works fine without any problems. I do feel a better speaker there would be a worthwhile change. I've just not come up with something for that yet in my mind.
 

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