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Best Bang for the buck for AVR with Pre output

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FrantzM

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Hi

This thread was suggested by Bob aka NorthSky to whom I asked the same question. I am an audiophile and also a movie fan. I have been without a decent HT for about 8 years now ... I decided that I would not go for The BEst but to enjoy life and movies with something decent and good and ... yes, inexpensive. My recent purchase of a pair of LSR308 has many thinking to put 5 of these or perhaps 3 LSR 308 and 4 LSR 305 in a HT configuration ... I would use the first generation of these JBL monsters to keep the total cost for speakers and amp below $1000 .. add to this 4 Parts Express Subs for $800.. A miniDSP with 8 output and Dirac for $850, throw in some Blue JEans cables and before the AVR I have the foundation for a decent HT audio for $3000...

I need a decent AVR with Pre out 7.1 or 5.1 is OK the .1 is an issue I would like to understand more about... with the LFE and the fact I would like to use distributed subs.. There is a bit of confusion in my mind. I have been out of HT for a while and don't know much about these. Or is the miniDSP superfluous? HTPC anyone ? I tend to prefer appliances to Rube Goldberg contraptions... Something an HTPC with Dirac , a DVD player, streaming and pre out can quickly become ... Or is an HTPC a sensible solution?... I want the fiancee to be able to run the darn thing by the way .. THis could be the subject of another thread all together...

I hereby open the discussion and am waiting for your valuable inputs... I do not have sets choices besides the JBL LSR ... anything is open to discussions, changes .. etc...
 
⭐ https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...-140-watts-thx-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

I found that one ^ for a great discount. It's a monster receiver, very high-end, but no Dolby Atmos. With that receiver you don't need external amps, I can assure you, from personal experience.
__

With Dolby Atmos and DTS:X

• https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...-130-watts-thx-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

It has all the preouts you asked for.
___

You asked about Dirac Live and if it is too much. It depends of your learning tolerance and time and overall budget. If you want simplicity, an all-in-one-unit, a good price around $500 or less, a good auto calibration and room correction system setup, there are other choices I can find for you.

I also like Yamaha, Pioneer Elite, Marantz, Anthem.

Accessories4Less is good place for the best deals.
____

Simplicity is always a good thing. ...I am reading.
 
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I have gone the comprehensive HTPC route as the core of my system, though I prefer to call it a Media PC or even a MultiMediaPC. I realized you absolutely should not do that as soon as you mentioned the fiancé. Go with an AVR, instead. That does not preclude using a less comprehensive MMPC as a library/player input to the AVR, as much or as little as you want, now or later in stages. I go directly to a DAC from the MMPC, but there are downsides in terms of stability, since it is mainly in software running on a general purpose PC Operating System.

Many AVRs are a competent and relatively inexpensive way to handle multiple media, multichannel, stereo, streaming, all with amplification. I think you get a lot for your money in an AVR. However, I do not believe they are just as good as separates or as a well fitted out MMPC feeding a quality Mch DAC with decent separate amps. Mch DACs are scarce. And, judging by Kal's reviews, which I trust completely, the really good Mch DACs are budget busters for you. Kal, incidentally, with extremely rare exception, does not review AVRs. But, that does not mean you cannot achieve decent Mch sound with a boatload of other features with an AVR.

AVR features abound, and they are ever changing. But, a critical choice is which DSP room EQ tool do they employ, assuming you plan to go that route. You should. I am no longer a fan of Audyssey, which I used for a long time in a series of Integra prepros. Unfortunately, that leaves out otherwise appealing AVRs from Denon/Marantz. But, other choices in AVRs are limited. Not sure if there is a Dirac AVR - Arcam, maybe, and Emotiva in prepro separates. The latter, including separate amps, would bust your budget. But, I recommend that you consider Anthem, which uses its proprietary and quite decent ARC EQ in its reasonably priced AVRs, as well as more expensive prepro separates. Other brand-specific EQ schemes, Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer, Yamaha, are inferior also-rans, IMO.

I cannot really comment on miniDSP with Dirac or Acourate. I think it might be used with a comprehensive MMPC or with a prepro separate. It might be worth investigating, and it might fit the budget. Used with a prepro, it should not impede on user friendliness, similar to an AVR. But, there is still the budget question of separate amps, which an AVR solves.

My knowledge of this ever changing marketplace might be out of date, though. So, take what I say with a grain of salt.
 
soundArgument said:
It's amazing how little AV receivers have changed over the last 20 years.
Click to expand...
Not from my perspective. They have constantly added useful features - HDMI, hirez audio, HiDef video, 4K, DSP EQ, networking, multiple subs, more powerful amps, and a mind-boggling list of others. A 20 year old AVR is a useless boat anchor today. It would not even handle Bluray, among many other useful things, though the feature list includes many questionable or possibly vestigial items.
 
I actually don't need the amplification from the AVR, the speakers chosen are active. a Pre/Pro may be the answer, they are usually more expensive than similarly featured AVR of the same brand. I do like the flexibility afforded by an HTPC. I prefer appliances and woudl like this system to be used by others...
 
I agree, if you want to keep up with the latest techs a 20-year old receiver won't do. For sound alone in stereo it's fine.

But for Atmos, 4K passthrough, 3D passthrough, Network, USB ports, HDMI jacks, switching sources and surround modes, support for hires audio files, ...a $500 AVR today will be more equipped than a $5,000 AVR from yesterday.

If you don't intend to expand into Atmos, you can get that first Integra receiver I posted for 80% off. And get a cheap 4K Blu-ray player that has two HDMI outputs. You'll get 4K picture, and Dolby TrueHD 7.1 audio core. ...Plus Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

The latest in home theater is flat 2D Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos.
...All the HDR flavours. For 3D you need to go front projectors now because they kill 3D TVs. For 1080p and 4K viewing content it's everywhere now from streaming...Netflix, YouTube, Amazon, Vudu, Hulu, Roku, ...all 4K Bluray players stream 4K...except the Oppo players...203 and 205.

Your first post Frantz, I can tell it encompasses everything about the movie and multichannel music experience. We can go for a very long time and explore all avenues of the Batman cave with Catwoman... ⛷
 
FrantzM said:
I actually don't need the amplification from the AVR, the speakers chosen are active. a Pre/Pro may be the answer, they are usually more expensive than similarly featured AVR of the same brand. I do like the flexibility afforded by an HTPC. I prefer appliances and woudl like this system to be used by others...
Click to expand...

Ok Frantz, a pre/pro, or an AV receiver used as a pre/pro...with preouts, like all the receivers I posted links of. They are all pre/pros too.

- How many channels; five or seven?
- No Dolby Atmos right?
- Dirac Live separate or integrated?
- Other room EQ ok or not?
- Approximate budget?

What are the video aspects of this multichannel setup?
 
You probably have heard of Emotiva? ...With Dirac Live.

Yamaha have a new pre/pro with improved room EQ and great DSP audio modes...for a reasonable price.
Anthem have ARC2 room EQ. They have a newer separate pre/pro...@ an affordable price.
Marantz have pre/pros with Audyssey MultEQ XT32. ..for a decent price.

You mentioned a humble budget, also a what is today available for that budget. Used is ok by you. Dolby Atmos is new to you, so you are not certain there? Any audio/video stores near you for some demos? ...You can bring your lover with you.
 
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FrantzM said:
I hereby open the discussion and am waiting for your valuable inputs..
Click to expand...
The point you can get the best bang at will very much depend on which features will be important to you. Always a rapidly moving market, a year or two older pre/pro can be had at great discounts if the latest tweaks aren't important. The 2 biggest will be the type of immersive codes included or not, and the built-in DRC types.
We've already been kicking around a bit of the above on the latest Marantz pre/pros over here
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...hannels-for-music-recordings.2368/#post-67186
Sounds like your a bit torn between miniDSP-HTPC approach and a straight forward integrated pre/pro solution. Maybe it would be best to start your decision making answering that question for yourself.
 
Fitzcaraldo215 said:
Not from my perspective. They have constantly added useful features - HDMI, hirez audio, HiDef video, 4K, DSP EQ, networking, multiple subs, more powerful amps, and a mind-boggling list of others. A 20 year old AVR is a useless boat anchor today. It would not even handle Bluray, among many other useful things, though the feature list includes many questionable or possibly vestigial items.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected, though I think one could continue using an old AVR so long as it has 5.1 analog inputs.
 
FrantzM said:
I actually don't need the amplification from the AVR, the speakers chosen are active. a Pre/Pro may be the answer, they are usually more expensive than similarly featured AVR of the same brand. I do like the flexibility afforded by an HTPC. I prefer appliances and woudl like this system to be used by others...
Click to expand...
I looked up the LSR308, and it is balanced input. Best to go with a prepro with balanced outs, which is typical. AVRs don't usually have them, if any at all do. I like balanced better anyway, just for connection ergonomics, but they are also better for long cable runs, such as to the surround channels, and they often help avoid ground loops or other noise.
 
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soundArgument said:
I stand corrected, though I think one could continue using an old AVR so long as it has 5.1 analog inputs.
Click to expand...
True, you could. I tend to think newer ones are better, though, beyond just added features. Mch analog inputs are being phased out these days - too much space on the back panel and too few customers preferring them.
 
Hi

I may have not properly framed what I am trying to accomplish with this exercise.

That we are audiophiles hence OCD is a given :).. We want things a certain way and we want it right. Most on this board believe there is such a thing as proper reproduction. The thing is that throughout our search for audio ( and video) nirvana we have been conditioned to believe that newer is always better and that more expensive is also more better :D ... Thus the flight toward ever more expensive components .. to no end ... And most of the times sideways moves and no gain in performance. This no-win game can last a long time.
The purpose of this exercise/system is to educate myself while enjoying movies ( it is an HT first ) and music it is also a MCH system. I have a slew of High End phones and will continue to listen to them but in term of real enjoyment , I have found myself to derive more from the LSR308 and the iFI microDSD in a mediocre room than my Stax with the Berkeley and the Stax headphones/amp ... I never said the LSR 308 were more accurate by the way . To my ears they're not , nor more revealing, nor better ... IMHO the Stax are several order of magnitude better than the LSR 308 and to any speaker I've heard ...The point is enjoyment, not Audio performance.

The system is almost complete. I have the Pre/Pro on order and it may take a month before it get them in my mediocre room. Same with the single LSR 308 (center channel), the 4 pairs of LSR305 ( Surround and back Surround). I have decided to go with 4 flat-pack Parts Express with a 15 inch HO Driver. Amplification for the subs will be courtesy of pair of Behringer iNuke 3000. Looking at the bill of material/components:
3 JBL LSR 308 ...... $450
4 JBL LSR 305 ......$500 ( I may reduce this I am not at all convinced that 7.1 provides much over 5.1
1 Pre/Pro INTEGRA DHC-80.3 9.2-Ch THX Networking A/V Preamp/Processor ....$525
4 Parts Express Flatpack subwoofer Bundle with 15" Driver ....$1100
2 Behringer iNuke 3000 ....$500
1 miniDSP 10x10 Hd ...... $600
1 Accessories, cables, connectors from Belden or other usual suspect Blue Jeans , Cnare ,etc .. $500 (perhaps less)

We're talking about a serious system capable on paper to hit reference levels within the audio band for the elevated expense of $4325 US .. Total cost will be a bit more once they are shipped here and clear Haitian customs. In the here and now I am happy about this...
Now, I have to decide if I need to drop a DRC software ( Acourate? Dirac? Audiolense?) or go the manual road, measure with REW and drop in the filters manually .. through something like the mini_DSP EQ boxes

Perhaps a thread on PJ and screen that would follow the same philosophy: Not perfection. High Performance on a reduced budget. A PJ for less than $2k and a screen for even less. 8 feet wide screen + PJ to light it up correctly for less than $3000 ? A new thread? mhhh?
Thanks people ! In particular Northsky.. Your willingness to share is appreciated and for once your tendency to saturate people with URL has paid dividend ... for me :D

This system while being enjoyed , will help me make a sensible choice toward a very High Performance 2-Ch system and a separated high performance HT/MCH system. I have things like the JBL M2 in my sights for the 2-CH system and the 708P and 705P for the HT .. Could just substitute the 708P for the 308 and leave everything else (LSR 305, Subs, PrePRo, miniDSP box, etc) ... We'll see.
I will keep you abreast of my progress and tribulations ...

THANKS AGAIN!! I don't mind more inputs BTW. I am not closing the thread. ;)
 
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