Best AV Processor under $3k? Lexicon MC-10, Anthem AVM 60, or something else?

[rynberg]

I don't interpret the benchtests of the RZ50 as having "very poor performance" - I consider it an excellent AVP, and it's key weakness is the amps inability to handle difficult speakers (ie: low impedance) - which the X3800 suffers from as well.
I remedy the amp issue with an external amp and take advantage of the excellent AVP performance.

I also continue to wait for a more complete test of the RZ70... there was a test in a German publication... from which the following were posted:

- stereo 264W 4 Ohm 1kHz Sinus
- 5.1 159W 6 Ohm 1kHz Sinus
- 7.1 88W 6 Ohm 1kHz Sinus

Given the base rating of 140W@8ohm, 264W@4ohm is a solid indication of high current capability, as it almost doubles (the theoretical "ideal") the 8 ohm rating.

If you want a high current capable AVR which has been measured - there isn't anything out there other than the A1H....
None of the other Denon or Marantz AVR's provide high current/low impedance handling.

Sadly, no 2 ohm test is listed.

We were only talking about power into 4 ohms...for which metric the performance is poor with the limiting kicking in. The X3800 puts out ~170W into 4 ohms without shutting down...that is respectable for the price point.

Tests at only 1kHZ are nearly useless and don't indicate anything. Again, there isn't yet real evidence that the RZ70 performs good enough at 4 ohms to justify purchasing it over a 3800+amp.

 

[rynberg]

Do keep in mind the Onkyo RZ50 actually did quite well, nowhere near SOTA but very respectable. It is the power amp section that it did not do well relative to others at the same price point. Even with that, for practical use it may never trigger protection mode so it depends on the usage, though for peace of mind, it is better to pair the RZ50 with a 200 W/300 W 8/4 ohm rated power amps such as one of buckeyeamp's, or Apollon's that measured well on the 4 ohm load tests.

I was only talking power into 4 ohms...the trigger protection may never come on in real world use but why take the risk when a competitor doesn't have that problem.

 

[peng]

I was only talking power into 4 ohms...the trigger protection may never come on in real world use but why take the risk when a competitor doesn't have that problem.

Agreed.

 

[dlaloum]

We were only talking about power into 4 ohms...for which metric the performance is poor with the limiting kicking in. The X3800 puts out ~170W into 4 ohms without shutting down...that is respectable for the price point.

Tests at only 1kHZ are nearly useless and don't indicate anything. Again, there isn't yet real evidence that the RZ70 performs good enough at 4 ohms to justify purchasing it over a 3800+amp.

Audiovision (German magazine, paywalled) did have measurements for the Pioneer LX504- which uses the same chassis and amp design as the LX505 (which is the Pioneer twin to the RZ50 & DRX5.4) - and have measured the X3800...

Pioneer VSA-LX504-----------Denon-X3800h
222 W - 2ch, 4ohm-----------190 W - 2ch, 4ohm
178 W - 2ch, 6ohm-----------161 W - 2ch, 6 ohm
131 W - 5ch, 4ohm-----------113 W - 5ch, 4 ohm
122 W - 5ch, 6ohm-----------103 W - 5ch, 6 ohm
103 W - 7ch, 4ohm-----------not reported
94 W - 7ch, 6ohm------------80 W - 7ch, 6 ohm

Which does not excuse the excessive sensitivity of the nanny circuit! - But does make it clear that the actual available benchtested power is actually higher on the Onkyo family equivalents than on the Denon....

 

[rynberg]

Audiovision (German magazine, paywalled) did have measurements for the Pioneer LX504- which uses the same chassis and amp design as the LX505 (which is the Pioneer twin to the RZ50 & DRX5.4) - and have measured the X3800...

Pioneer VSA-LX504-----------Denon-X3800h
222 W - 2ch, 4ohm-----------190 W - 2ch, 4ohm
178 W - 2ch, 6ohm-----------161 W - 2ch, 6 ohm
131 W - 5ch, 4ohm-----------113 W - 5ch, 4 ohm
122 W - 5ch, 6ohm-----------103 W - 5ch, 6 ohm
103 W - 7ch, 4ohm-----------not reported
94 W - 7ch, 6ohm------------80 W - 7ch, 6 ohm

Which does not excuse the excessive sensitivity of the nanny circuit! - But does make it clear that the actual available benchtested power is actually higher on the Onkyo family equivalents than on the Denon....

This is just a bit silly fanboy-ism at this point...and I don't know how Audiovision performs their tests, but it's questionable. The LX505 was tested on this site and failed even worse than the RZ50:

Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer VSX-LX505 ELITE 9.2 Channel AV Receiver. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and is a refurbished unit. Normal cost is US $1699. As you see, the front panel is the same old interface from decade+ back. The on-screen menus...

www.audiosciencereview.com