Belden ICONOCLAST XLR Cable Review

[IPunchCholla]

No he's absolutely right, the British cultural norm is to consider an ostentatious display of wealth as vulgar and to despise those who do it. This is true across all social classes.

It's okay to have a big house and car, and a flash watch and so on but you should never show them off or even mention them. If anyone compliments you on such things then you are supposed to say something like 'I've been very fortunate.'

Kinda sounds like a no true Scotsman argument. How do you define ostentatious display of wealth? Ex-Princess Margaret walking alongside her Rolls in a dress that cost a working family's month salary? A royal family that has how many palaces now? By my thinking, a "refined" display of wealth is still ostentatious. Its just trying be even further exclusionary my making outsiders learn unstated rules in order to belong.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Galen is chief imagineer.

 

[DualTriode]

You know, I’m really getting tired of these pompously cynical comments. Amir put effort into this review, and I both learned something from it and enjoyed the discussion. Other than showing your disdain for Amir and us plebes, what are you contributing that’s so fascinating? Have you showed your support for ASR by donating funds or effort? Have you submitted anything for review if you think this is so pointless? Or is your fund of knowledge absolute after a year on here? Seriously, manners.

Such a sour puss!

This thread was presented as a contrast to the last one about dirt cheep cables.

Also designed to stir the emotions of the commenting public. Good job, I think.

Thanks DT

 

[srkbear]

No he's absolutely right, the British cultural norm is to consider an ostentatious display of wealth as vulgar and to despise those who do it. This is true across all social classes.

It's okay to have a big house and car, and a flash watch and so on but you should never show them off or even mention them. If anyone compliments you on such things then you are supposed to say something like 'I've been very fortunate.'

Oh please. Please! You don’t have to actively show the stuff off or mention it directly to get the point across when they’re visible in your homes or cars.

Although I studied at Oxford for nearly two years and visited plenty of homes there, I’m not British and won’t attempt to position myself as an expert on etiquette in the UK. But I know something about the sales figures for high-priced gear in England at least, plus the significant number of luxury audio manufacturers there—and above all we all know the human condition in general. And the idea that folks in the UK live humble, ascetic lives and only buy expensive audio gear to enjoy their music in discreet privacy is pure lunacy—and I refuse to accept it.

This whole tangential discussion is ridiculous anyway. Stop trying to make people from the UK more virtuous and so principally well-mannered that they’re above exploiting the ownership of snake oil for status-seeking purposes.

 

[srkbear]

Galen has said he is retired from Belden but is now working for BJC. Whether that means employed by or as a consultant to, I don’t know.

BJC isn’t owned by Belden. Belden is a supplier to BJC.

And I assume that either Belden or BJC is a supplier to Iconoclast? It’s odd that I haven’t seen those two entities employ such flatulent and hifalutin jargon as Gareis in their marketing literature. They must have kept him contained when he was on board there.

 

[Billy Budapest]

And I assume that either Belden or BJC is a supplier to Iconoclast? It’s odd that I haven’t seen those two entities employ such flatulent and hifalutin jargon as Gareis in their marketing literature. They must have kept him contained when he was on board there.

I don’t believe Iconoclast is an actual entity. Belden manufactures the raw cable which it sells to BJC which in turn terminates it and sells it under the Iconoclast name.

 

[srkbear]

Such a sour puss!

This thread was presented as a contrast to the last one about dirt cheep cables.

Also designed to stir the emotions of the commenting public. Good job, I think.

Thanks DT

You speak for the entirety of the “commenting public” here? I was unaware of the previous thread to which you are referring and took the review on its own terms.

I just don’t think someone who has been on here for a little over a year and who has neither donated to the forum nor posted more than a few dozen times should be making above-it-all posts such as his, and his is not the first. It implies to me that others such as myself should have nothing to learn from the insights posted on this thread, and that we’re all wasting server space participating in the discussion.

The fact that so many folks have commented suggests that interest in this subject is still strong, and that the conversation itself is arguably entertaining quite a few of us. Your estimation of the activity here as being analogous to a premeditated dumpster fire is pretty supercilious to say the least.

 

[DualTriode]

You speak for the entirety of the “commenting public” here? I was unaware of the previous thread to which you are referring and took the review on its own terms.

I just don’t think someone who has been on here for a little over a year and who has neither donated to the forum nor posted more than a few dozen times should be making above-it-all posts such as his, and his is not the first. It implies to me that others such as myself should have nothing to learn from the insights posted on this thread, and that we’re all wasting server space participating in the discussion.

The fact that so many folks have commented suggests that interest in this subject is still strong, and that the conversation itself is arguably entertaining quite a few of us. Your estimation of the activity here as being analogous to a premeditated dumpster fire is pretty supercilious to say the least.

This thread is more entertaining than the typicial dumpster fire, more like a house fire if you were to ask.

Several years ago I did solder 6 color coded Beldin cables.

Thanks DT

 

[Mart68]

Oh please. Please! You don’t have to actively show the stuff off or mention it directly to get the point across when they’re visible in your homes or cars.

Although I studied at Oxford for nearly two years and visited plenty of homes there, I’m not British and won’t attempt to position myself as an expert on etiquette in the UK. But I know something about the sales figures for high-priced gear in England at least, plus the significant number of luxury audio manufacturers there—and above all we all know the human condition in general. And the idea that folks in the UK live humble, ascetic lives and only buy expensive audio gear to enjoy their music in discreet privacy is pure lunacy—and I refuse to accept it.

This whole tangential discussion is ridiculous anyway. Stop trying to make people from the UK more virtuous and so principally well-mannered that they’re above exploiting the ownership of snake oil for status-seeking purposes.

I'm guessing that you didn't study reading comprehension at Oxford since your response does not relate at all to what I wrote.

Yes this discussion is ridiculous you are right about that.

 

[DWI]

No he's absolutely right, the British cultural norm is to consider an ostentatious display of wealth as vulgar and to despise those who do it. This is true across all social classes.

It's okay to have a big house and car, and a flash watch and so on but you should never show them off or even mention them. If anyone compliments you on such things then you are supposed to say something like 'I've been very fortunate.'

Sorry @srkbear, but @Mart68 summed it up better than me. No one said that we in the UK live humble, ascetic lives.

You only have to read about Vardy v Rooney, which has gripped the UK in the last week, proving you can have all the money in the world and still plumb the depths of vulgarity.

It has been the case for centuries. It was written into our tax code about 220 years ago, which was designed so that no one had to tell the treasury how much they actually earned. It was only about 50 years ago that you actually had to add up all your income and report it. The first class of income was from land, because that was how respectable people derived their money, the last class of was income from employment, because only people at the bottom of the food chain actually had to work for a living.

So if people buy audio here to show off, it's not something I've experienced.

People may think people buy expensive cables and stuff just to show off because they can think of no other reason. I would never criticise anyone for buying expensive hifi or say they were being ripped off because it is not for me to question or understand their motives. It's their money, they can do with it what they like.

If as an audiophile you’ve never visited Head-Fi, then you certainly forfeit your credibility

Can someone please explain why it is required to read head-fi?

 

[mhardy6647]

When I was living near Chicago, I offered to give some technical talks, like what does "balanced" versus "single ended" mean, how to run valid listening tests, how to interpret measurements, etc etc etc. The officers of the club thanked me for my offer, but replied, "We've done stuff like that before and the members weren't really interested." And the meeting that day featured a fashion audio amplifier sales guy talking about their latest and greatest unit, which was developed after thousands of hours listening to differences in PCB material and resistor brands.

I think (not that anyone asked, but that rarely stops me! ) that my biggest frustration with many audiophiles is how little interest they have in the (shall we say) fundamentals of audio reproduction, and how such a form of (again, shall we say) willful ignorance sets 'em up to be preyed upon by the purveyors of "flavor of the month" products or other "innovations". I would opine that the basic nuts and bolts are straightforward enough that most folks of reasonable intelligence would a) understand and b) benefit from that understanding.

 

[Jimbob54]

Can someone please explain why it is required to read head-fi?

Morbid curiosity.

 

[srkbear]

I'm guessing that you didn't study reading comprehension at Oxford since your response does not relate at all to what I wrote.

Yes this discussion is ridiculous you are right about that.

I studied English Literature, if you’re going to resort to ad hominems. If I didn’t comprehend what you wrote, then please elaborate. I’m not seeking to make enemies on here, so my apologies if my tone offended you.

 

[amirm]

This thread was presented as a contrast to the last one about dirt cheep cables.

It was not. Company gave me a time period to test the cables and time was up so I had to review them. It took 3 days to develop the tests for this cable so I was not looking forward to all that work (i.e. null testing). But thought it necessary to raise the bar in our cable and tweak evaluations.

The original motivation for testing Iconoclast cables is when they were announced, some 10 years ago. With a bunch of white papers behind it, people treated the cable differently, stating that it has "science" behind it. So I always wanted to test them. I recently saw a lot more references to them and the designer so decided to spend over $1,000 to buy and test them. And here we are.

I routinely test these tweaks and will continue to do so. Reason is that every one of the has a different story of why they work. So to get broad coverage, I see no way out of continuing to test them.

As to the dirt-cheap cables, they were sent to me last year I think! It was sitting here for so long that I decided I had to test them.

Finally, Iconoclast cables are not expensive by high-end standards. So it is not a true contrast to dirt cheap cables.

 

[amirm]

Sorry @srkbear, but @Mart68 summed it up better than me. No one said that we in the UK live humble, ascetic lives.

You only have to read about Vardy v Rooney, which has gripped the UK in the last week, proving you can have all the money in the world and still plumb the depths of vulgarity.

It has been the case for centuries. It was written into our tax code about 220 years ago, which was designed so that no one had to tell the treasury how much they actually earned. It was only about 50 years ago that you actually had to add up all your income and report it. The first class of income was from land, because that was how respectable people derived their money, the last class of was income from employment, because only people at the bottom of the food chain actually had to work for a living.

So if people buy audio here to show off, it's not something I've experienced.

People may think people buy expensive cables and stuff just to show off because they can think of no other reason. I would never criticise anyone for buying expensive hifi or say they were being ripped off because it is not for me to question or understand their motives. It's their money, they can do with it what they like.

Can someone please explain why it is required to read head-fi?

Your post is completely off-topic. Please focus on topic of the thread.

 

[srkbear]

Sorry @srkbear, but @Mart68 summed it up better than me. No one said that we in the UK live humble, ascetic lives.

You only have to read about Vardy v Rooney, which has gripped the UK in the last week, proving you can have all the money in the world and still plumb the depths of vulgarity.

It has been the case for centuries. It was written into our tax code about 220 years ago, which was designed so that no one had to tell the treasury how much they actually earned. It was only about 50 years ago that you actually had to add up all your income and report it. The first class of income was from land, because that was how respectable people derived their money, the last class of was income from employment, because only people at the bottom of the food chain actually had to work for a living.

So if people buy audio here to show off, it's not something I've experienced.

People may think people buy expensive cables and stuff just to show off because they can think of no other reason. I would never criticise anyone for buying expensive hifi or say they were being ripped off because it is not for me to question or understand their motives. It's their money, they can do with it what they like.

Can someone please explain why it is required to read head-fi?

I’m not attacking your character in any way. I’m a huge Anglophile and I’m not criticizing or condemning the good folks in the UK. This conversation went way off topic, and I’ll own my part in going down the rabbit hole. Can we just let it rest with no hard feelings?

As far as visiting Head-Fi, I certainly don’t recommend it. But it does offer some insights into the exploitation of audio gear as a form of one-upmanship, and the principles there are the polar opposite of those here. The whole site is awash in unscientific, fraudulent claims about audio science and it hosts an unrivaled celebration of snake oil. It’s also significantly infiltrated by industry plants who help perpetuate audio woo and the ongoing misappropriation of analog terms to describe digital audio.

I mentioned it only because it is a stark example of how people from all parts of the world endeavor to outdo others with their audio gear purchases, and since there are plenty of participants there from the UK, I thought it might illuminate a covert way that folks from the UK circumvent the usual manners by preening anonymously. But that’s just my conjecture. The point is that overpriced brands making fraudulent claims are still managing to find innumerable consumers, irrespective of their motivations for buying into the hype. Peace.

 

[CtheArgie]

It was not. Company gave me a time period to test the cables and time was up so I had to review them. It took 3 days to develop the tests for this cable so I was not looking forward to all that work (i.e. null testing). But thought it necessary to raise the bar in our cable and tweak evaluations.

The original motivation for testing Iconoclast cables is when they were announced, some 10 years ago. With a bunch of white papers behind it, people treated the cable differently, stating that it has "science" behind it. So I always wanted to test them. I recently saw a lot more references to them and the designer so decided to spend over $1,000 to buy and test them. And here we are.

I routinely test these tweaks and will continue to do so. Reason is that every one of the has a different story of why they work. So to get broad coverage, I see no way out of continuing to test them.

As to the dirt-cheap cables, they were sent to me last year I think! It was sitting here for so long that I decided I had to test them.

Finally, Iconoclast cables are not expensive by high-end standards. So it is not a true contrast to dirt cheap cables.

By the way, @amirm , Galen is taking pot shots at you in the PS A forum someone else linked above.

It figures.

 

[srkbear]

By the way, @amirm , Galen is taking pot shots at you in the PS A forum someone else linked above.

It figures.

Another echo chamber. That forum is an audio Jonestown, they’re beyond the reach of rationality.

 

[DWI]

I think (not that anyone asked, but that rarely stops me! ) that my biggest frustration with many audiophiles is how little interest they have in the (shall we say) fundamentals of audio reproduction, and how such a form of (again, shall we say) willful ignorance sets 'em up to be preyed upon by the purveyors of "flavor of the month" products or other "innovations". I would opine that the basic nuts and bolts are straightforward enough that most folks of reasonable intelligence would a) understand and b) benefit from that understanding.

I really would love to know why you are frustrated about how other people decide to buy consumer products. What's it to you? How does it affect your life? Do you worry about how people choose to buy the consumer products?

My wife buys air freshener sticks at CostCo for £5. There is an up-market retail chain that sells exactly the same product, in the same box, for £50. If I got frustrated about things like that I'd never have time to sleep. My wife is just happy she pays £5 and not £50, if other people want to £50, then great, not her problem.

Can you not accept that lots of people don't want to study electronic engineering to any level, but have no problem distinguishing what they do and don't like when listening to a sound reproduction system? My wife, who chose most of our audio system with me, has never studied any science and is barely numerate (although she is a highly qualified and respected therapist and is fluent in 6 languages). Should she be allowed to buy a stereo system? You might as well say people should not be allowed to go on holiday to France unless they speak French.

Can you not accept that people can make these decisions for themselves without reading other peoples' opinions in reviews and on forums, and without reading any of the marketing literature?

Can you not accept that some of us are not bothered if we buy something and a new model comes out, or several new models, as long as what we have continues to work, and take a very long-term view to hifi ownership, with no interest in short-term trends?

 

[DualTriode]

It was not. Company gave me a time period to test the cables and time was up so I had to review them. It took 3 days to develop the tests for this cable so I was not looking forward to all that work (i.e. null testing). But thought it necessary to raise the bar in our cable and tweak evaluations.

The original motivation for testing Iconoclast cables is when they were announced, some 10 years ago. With a bunch of white papers behind it, people treated the cable differently, stating that it has "science" behind it. So I always wanted to test them. I recently saw a lot more references to them and the designer so decided to spend over $1,000 to buy and test them. And here we are.

I routinely test these tweaks and will continue to do so. Reason is that every one of the has a different story of why they work. So to get broad coverage, I see no way out of continuing to test them.

As to the dirt-cheap cables, they were sent to me last year I think! It was sitting here for so long that I decided I had to test them.

Finally, Iconoclast cables are not expensive by high-end standards. So it is not a true contrast to dirt cheap cables.

My hat is off to you @amirm.

Thanks for your insights.

DT