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Behringer Truth B2031A - how truthful is it? (review / modding)

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roci_big_ear

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Not sure about how a German operation like Behringer would address this post (if at all). @ctrl would know better than I. As has already been pointed out, this could simply be one defective speaker. Given how important “branding” is here these days, the most I might expect is for the marketing folks to call Amir and request a retraction…

Before we go there, consider the following:
  1. No proof has been offered to demonstrate the alleged out of box performance is lacking. A good start would be to establish a baseline measurement.
  2. The OP also has not demonstrated how the speaker settings might help or not.
  3. The OP has not shown measurements of how his mods affected a baseline measurement.
  4. The OP has not established that his measurement system is accurate and that his measurement conditions are credible.
  5. Most of what has been claimed, could have be addressed with the speaker settings and/or external eq. One’s willingness to modify electronics is NOT a substitute for good engineering practice.
While can give the OP some leeway, ASR has stood for objectivity in audio equipments reviews. So far, this thread is a bunch of subjective claims that lack scientific credibility.

I hope further objective evidence is shared, but suggest the usual ASR skepticism should apply here for now. :)
Didn't expect such an attack on my skills, Rick ;-)
 

Rick Sykora

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Tangband

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Not sure about how a German operation like Behringer would address this post (if at all). @ctrl would know better than I. As has already been pointed out, this could simply be one defective speaker. Given how important “branding” is here these days, the most I might expect is for the marketing folks to call Amir and request a retraction…

Before we go there, consider the following:
  1. No proof has been offered to demonstrate the alleged out of box performance is lacking. A good start would be to establish a baseline measurement.
  2. The OP also has not demonstrated how the speaker settings might help or not.
  3. The OP has not shown measurements of how his mods affected a baseline measurement.
  4. The OP has not established that his measurement system is accurate and that his measurement conditions are credible.
  5. Most of what has been claimed, could have be addressed with the speaker settings and/or external eq. One’s willingness to modify electronics is NOT a substitute for good engineering practice.
While can give the OP some leeway, ASR has stood for objectivity in audio equipments reviews. So far, this thread is a bunch of subjective claims that lack scientific credibility.

I hope further objective evidence is shared, but suggest the usual ASR skepticism should apply here for now. :)
It would be interesting to see klippel measurements by Amirm on this loudspeaker.
I doubt that the distortion measurements are as low as a Genelec - The Behringer monitor uses a bassdriver nowhere near the performance of a really good loudspeaker. But ofcourse the cost of this loudspeaker are really low to.

Below Amirms distortion measurements on the smaller Behringer brother , B 2030 .

5A1A03F0-C8C4-4868-92BD-CAD629073B60.png
 
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PeteL

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Not sure about how a German operation like Behringer would address this post (if at all). @ctrl would know better than I. As has already been pointed out, this could simply be one defective speaker. Given how important “branding” is here these days, the most I might expect is for the marketing folks to call Amir and request a retraction…

Before we go there, consider the following:
  1. No proof has been offered to demonstrate the alleged out of box performance is lacking. A good start would be to establish a baseline measurement.
  2. The OP also has not demonstrated how the speaker settings might help or not.
  3. The OP has not shown measurements of how his mods affected a baseline measurement.
  4. The OP has not established that his measurement system is accurate and that his measurement conditions are credible.
  5. Most of what has been claimed, could have be addressed with the speaker settings and/or external eq. One’s willingness to modify electronics is NOT a substitute for good engineering practice.
While can give the OP some leeway, ASR has stood for objectivity in audio equipments reviews. So far, this thread is a bunch of subjective claims that lack scientific credibility.

I hope further objective evidence is shared, but suggest the usual ASR skepticism should apply here for now. :)
I don't feel the need to be so stiff. Not everything needs to be a peer reviewed science paper. If we need to wait to have a full Klippel Rig or Anechoic chambers to do anything, well nobody does anything. Why not take this for what it is, a fun little experiment... The Frequency response, under the limited scope of what the OP can do, look better after than before. That should certainly be sufficient to be allowed to post on ASR. Not all we find on this site is meant to advance the state of the art and expose grand discoveries in audio reproduction.
 

Rick Sykora

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I don't feel the need to be so stiff. Not everything needs to be a peer reviewed science paper. If we need to wait to have a full Klippel Rig or Anechoic chambers to do anything, well nobody does anything. Why not take this for what it is, a fun little experiment... The Frequency response, under the limited scope of what the OP can do, look better after than before. That should certainly be sufficient to be allowed to post on ASR. Not all we find on this site is meant to advance the state of the art and expose grand discoveries in audio reproduction.

I do a lot of fun experiments! If I post them on ASR, I try to ensure they meet what I think Amir and most members consider as objective standards. While can say that we have been hard on some manufacturers for small issues, it has usually been done with data to back it up.

Manufacturers should be held up to objective scrutiny. This is how Amir has differentiated ASR. If he chooses to lower the bar, then will wait for him to state as much. This thread has called into question Behringer’s quality by suggesting these mods are worthwhile. The data supplied does not meet the objective standards for ASR in my opinion. There are already several posts in this thread that call for Behringer to fix this speaker. Before you fix something, sound engineering practice means you need to identify the problem. So in the spirit of innocence before guilt, there is not sufficient evidence shown to merit any remediation by Behringer. Otoh, if OP mods made him or anyone else feel better, it is fine by me. :)
 
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roci_big_ear

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@Rick Sykora, you doubted my setup and asked what it is. I answered and I guess it seemed reasonable, so then you claimed I don't follow good engineering practices (still puzzled why you made this unsubstantiated claim). Instead of attacking my analysis, I suggest you ignore it if you cannot enjoy it for what it is.

In the meantime, I am too looking forward to Amir's review. FWIW, I have reproduced Amir's measurements on another speaker fairly closely, so this would answer whether my unit was faulty, or it is a systematic issue with the model.
 

Rick Sykora

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@Rick Sykora, you doubted my setup and asked what it is. I answered and I guess it seemed reasonable, so then you claimed I don't follow good engineering practices (still puzzled why you made this unsubstantiated claim). Instead of attacking my analysis, I suggest you ignore it if you cannot enjoy it for what it is.

In the meantime, I am too looking forward to Amir's review. FWIW, I have reproduced Amir's measurements on another speaker fairly closely, so this would answer whether my unit was faulty, or it is a systematic issue with the model.

I may have been a bit candiid but did not intend disrespect.

As I stated earlier, the measurements you have provided do not prove any need to modify the speaker Internally. If you have them, then please post them. If you can show high correlation to Amir’s Klippel measurements, that would certainly demonstrate competency too. ASR is about substantiating your claims through measurements. Unless you have some credentials that you have not shared, the substantiation comes in the form of measurements (as I stated in post #36). This is the way.
 
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roci_big_ear

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As much as I also want to have it, I didn't save the out of the box measurement. The speaker was bright, so I adjusted the pot. At that time I had no idea nor intention that I'd be later writing a post about it and it would be featured in ASR!

After sleeping on it, I decided to start messing with the crossovers and began documenting my adventure in every step.

But you can see the plot with the reduced tweeter level in the first mod section. To reconstruct how it looked originally, imagine the right side shifted up a couple of lines, and that's how it was out of the box.
 

beagleman

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I may have been a bit candiid but did not intend disrespect.

As I stated earlier, the measurements you have provided do not prove any need to modify the speaker Internally. If you have them, then please post them. If you can show high correlation to Amir’s Klippel measurements, that would certainly demonstrate competency too. ASR is about substantiating your claims through measurements. Unless you have some credentials that you have not shared, the substantiation comes in the form of measurements (as I stated in post #36). This is the way.
Rick, I would give him some leeway. It was an interesting read to me, and do not think he has any ill will. Although I agree with what you say, I think he did a lot of this "on the fly".
 

pseudoid

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After another couple of hours of studying the board and simulating the circuit,
I wager it was more than just a few hours... even if it did not include interruptions like reaching for that cup of java or watching shenanigans in Ukraine.
I wish I had your "labor of love".
Kudos!
 
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sarumbear

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LTig

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As you can see, all the mods I did cost absolutely nothing (other than a weekend of my effort). I am dumbfounded why Behringer doesn't tune their speakers better.
Maybe the tolerances of the drivers are too high for fixed filters, and each speaker actually needs different filter settings. My K&H O300D have an analog 5-band adjustable EQ which is factory calibrated. But you pay for it, of course.
 

naviivan

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I had this speaker about 18yrs ago. I thought it sounded alright. Bit grainy highs but was the best at that price. Not sure how anyone is a small recording space would use these as the amp plates got REALLY HOT. Felt like a Class A amp.
 

Bruce Morgen

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Can you think of another reviewer in the audio world who takes out a soldering iron and "fixes" a factory mistake to improve it. I love it !!!!
The (in?)famous Danny Richie has made a business out of that -- check out videos from "GR-Research" on U-Toob.
 

RichT

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Nice practical review Roci. It's amazing what it appears you have done with 50 cents worth of parts, very cleaver. One thing though, because of part variations, these mods may not be the same on all of those speakers. I can't wait to giv'um a try myself. Thanks so much for sharing your work! Regards
 

strummr

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I don't think that Behringer tried to save money here. It's more about trying not to cannibalize the market share of their higher end products. Selling a cheap low end product that vies with their much more expensive offerings for customers is just not profitable for them.
This is probably the truth, welcome to the annoying world of excessive capitalism.
 
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