Behringer Studio XL Monitor Controller

[amirm]

You can just follow step 5 in the manual

No. No, no! This is step 5:

There is NO TRIM control for USB input. They only exist for ANALOG inputs, not digital. You are perpetually confused about operation of this device.

I have corrected you half a dozen times on this very thing.

 

[Chr1]

Question : Is this purely down to bad design?
ie Could you design and build something much better for the same cost?
If so, I am very surprised as I would have thought that Behringer would have done so. They are not exactly a small company. You wouldn't expect them to give this the go ahead. Very strange.

 

[Draki]

@amirm
If this device is meant to be used in a studio environment, and the expected digital signal via USB is at -16 dBFS (or thereabouts), is it possible to reduce the output level of the source (the AP) and see what happens when used as intended?
Only if it is not too much at this stage of somewhat heated debate. FWIW I fully understand your position and admire all the work you are doing, our collective hats are off to you.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@amirm
If this device is meant to be used in a studio environment, and the expected digital signal via USB is at -16 dBFS (or thereabouts), is it possible to reduce the output level of the source (the AP) and see what happens when used as intended?
Only if it is not too much at this stage of somewhat heated debate. FWIW I fully understand your position and admire all the work you are doing, our collective hats are off to you.

Even if this works, why put up with an effectively booby trapped device? Especially when such behavior is avoided with other devices.

 

[Sokel]

@amirm
If this device is meant to be used in a studio environment, and the expected digital signal via USB is at -16 dBFS (or thereabouts), is it possible to reduce the output level of the source (the AP) and see what happens when used as intended?
Only if it is not too much at this stage of somewhat heated debate. FWIW I fully understand your position and admire all the work you are doing, our collective hats are off to you.

He already tested that, if you look at the chart you'll see that the sweet spot is at about 0.5V.
Unfortunately it degrades rapidly after that.

 

[Draki]

He already tested that, if you look at the chart you'll see that the sweet spot is at about 0.5V.
Unfortunately it degrades rapidly after that.

Yes I just saw that now, had missed it ....

 

[Tim Link]

I tried using one of these to do some measurements at work and had a terrible time keeping it from clipping. I managed to do it, somehow. One funny thing about that was that I thought I heard the clipping first while the device we were testing was making sounds. This caused all kinds of confusion that it was actually the amp that was clipping. But the clipping when viewed on the recording wave form had a nice clean flat top on the clipped waves, and it's impossible for a driver to do that just because the amp did it. So why the hell could I hear it directly? Well, that was a different issue involving a turnbuckle that started rattling whenever the sound got loud enough to make the Behringer mic. input clip.

 

[xanalog]

 

[Lambda]

There is NO TRIM control for USB input.

There is... in your DAW or music player.

 

[LTig]

I'd say the performance of the Studio XL monitor controller is in line with the Behringer UMC204HD measured here as well. Both DACs clip heavily below 0dBFS, and both inputs clip at rather low analog levels. You get what you pay for.

 

[Chr1]

If you get what you pay for... I'd like to know how products of both a similar price and functionality perform?

Is it that you can't get decent performance at this price point for this type of product, or is it simply poor design?

Or a combination of the above?
I ask because I know very little about this type of product, but always saw Behringer as the pro-audio version of, say Topping.
ie Possibly not the best, but good quality, at a good price...Perhaps not though.

 

[Lambda]

I’m not saying its a good or excellent device.

But if uses as intended it is transparent for most users.

 

[LTig]

If you get what you pay for... I'd like to know how products of both a similar price and functionality perform?

Usually they don't exist, at least not when a Behringer product first enters the market. For the price they offer an incredible list of features, e.g. the DEQ2496. Thomann now has some similar priced products under own its t.bone brand, but I don't think they offer better measured performance.

Is it that you can't get decent performance at this price point for this type of product, or is it simply poor design?

I'd say the former. Too much money goes into housing, knobs and connectors.

 

[amirm]

Is it that you can't get decent performance at this price point for this type of product, or is it simply poor design?

Poor design. Likely both the DAC and ADC buffer circuits are clipping/saturating. There is no reason for this to happen. I am guessing the rail voltage is too low.

This is what we get when the requirements for a product only has feature lists on it rather than performance metrics. I suspect no one in their marking/product planning teams know any of what we test. Same likely with whoever designed the electronics.

 

[amirm]

I ask because I know very little about this type of product, but always saw Behringer as the pro-audio version of, say Topping.

They are completely different companies. Topping is hyper focused on best possible measurement. Behringer is after what feature list people want and offer it at lowest prices.

If Topping wanted, they could do far better.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

They are completely different companies. Topping is hyper focused on best possible measurement. Behringer is after what feature list people want and offer it at lowest prices.

If Topping wanted, they could do far better.

Sure, and the same applies to Behringer. As you pointed out, they focused on delivering a feature-rich product at a remarkably affordable price, all within a well-built enclosure.
If it clips at 0 dBFS, simply adjusting to -2 dBFS is a straightforward solution. However, the emphasis seems to be more on pointing out the limitation rather than considering the trade-offs -perhaps as a way to scrutinize a larger company and setting an example.

Topping follows a similar approach as Behringer but aiming for top SINAD performance but falling short in other areas, such as quirky power output that makes speaker pairing with some of their amplifiers a focus point.

In both cases, it's really about priorities. Once you're aware of their limitations, they can be easily worked around.

Nothing more to it, really.

 

[Geert]

I'd like to know how products of both a similar price and functionality perform?

The first alternative for a low cost studio monitoring controller that comes to mind is the SSL 12. It’s twice as expensive, but it does have better specs (for one, it’s a newer 32 bit interface, and it specifies THD @ -1dBFS and a more realistic input level for the mic input).

Note that a studio monitoring controller is more than just a studio interface (ADC/DAC). It has more connectivity and routing options, and talkback. If these options matter people need to decide for themselves.

always saw Behringer as the pro-audio version

Pro audio for that price? If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[Chr1]

Thanks for the info. I guess this begs the question then : How much would it have cost Behringer to have made theirs to a similar standard? If it is a minimal amount, then why not? Seems daft to make a broken product, rather than spend a bit more on a better design. Up until I read this review, I was under the impression that this was not likely to happen with a company like Behringer. Obviously I was well aware it was quite common in the world of home hifi (particularly of the audio-woo variety.)
Bizarre.

Edit : I actually have a Behringer portable mixing desk and an EP1500 power amplifier in a flight case, that I bought along with a pair of Electrovoice SX200 speakers. They are like new and I got the lot for the princely sum of £80. (Good old Ebay, collection only). Sold the speakers and as yet haven't used the Behringer gear as I have no current use for it. My musician pals have told me that both items are known to be of good quality and great value however.

Seems a shame that companies opt to make such flawed designs too to me however.

 

[amirm]

I guess this begs the question then : How much would it have cost Behringer to have made theirs to a similar standard? If it is a minimal amount, then why not?

We have seen incredible improvement in performance of DACs with no cost penalty. What Behringer is delivering here is way under even cheapest DAC/ADC ICs can provide. With a modicum of effort, and without any cost increase, they could have produced something far better.

As I explained above, the reason they haven't is because there was zero focus on it. Like many high-end companies, they rely on marketing to sell the performance story. Until their customers start to demand better performance, not much will change I am afraid.

 

[Audionaut]

If Topping wanted, they could do far better.

Behringer
Topping is still quite good