Balanced vs unbalanced

[Somafunk]

Even though balanced output gives a 2/3 dB better measured SINAD in many devices tested here.

Anything with a sinad of over 90 is already into “gravy” territory, saying that I do use balanced XLR’s as I have studio monitors/sub.

 

[fpitas]

Everything in hifi is a fad.

I doubt that balanced is a fad. If it is, it's a fad that all instrumentation engineers subscribe to.

 

[fpitas]

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/wp_the_g_word-pdf.886214/

The Bruno Putzey take on the subject.

 

[Henry53]

I doubt that balanced is a fad. If it is, it's a fad that all instrumentation engineers subscribe to.

Balanced connections have become a fad in hifi lately, especially balanced connections on unbalanced amplifiers.

 

[Doodski]

Balanced connections have become a fad in hifi lately, especially balanced connections on unbalanced amplifiers.

It's acknowledgement to the standard that is balanced/differential. The industry is including balanced on less expensive gear and AV receivers like they should have been doing long ago. It's not required all the time granted and single ended can perform very close or even better in special circumstances but balanced/differential is good insurance for ground loops and parasitic stuff etc.

 

[Lupin]

Even though balanced output gives a 2/3 dB better measured SINAD in many devices tested here.

How much does that matter when every recent DAC tested already has a SINAD north of 120 balanced or not...

Of course, there are (technical) differences between SE and balanced.
What i take issue with is that subjectivists claim all kind of mythical properties to balanced and spreading that nonsense as the truth all over the internet.

 

[fpitas]

How much does that matter when every recent DAC tested already has a SINAD north of 120 balanced or not...

Of course, there are (technical) differences between SE and balanced.
What i take issue with is that subjectivists claim all kind of mythical properties to balanced and spreading that nonsense as the truth all over the internet.

Subjectivists claim all sorts of things. Best to ignore them and do what's best from an engineering standpoint

 

[misterdog]

How much does that matter when every recent DAC tested already has a SINAD north of 120 balanced or not...

Just use bell wire for your speaker cables then.

Cables, can pick up interference, or radiate it.

 

[Lupin]

Just use bell wire for your speaker cables then.

Not exactly bell wire but just run of the mill standard cable from the local hardware shop, more than good enough.
Most definitely don't need "audiophile grade" garden hose thick wire with 10000+ % of profit margins to get good sound.

 

[fpitas]

Not exactly bell wire but just run of the mill standard cable from the local hardware shop, more than good enough.
Most definitely don't need "audiophile grade" garden hose thick wire with 10000+ % of profit margins to get good sound.

Ironically, a lot of the super-expensive speaker cables aren't large gauge. And even if you use say, 10AWG zip cord, it doesn't cost much.

 

[Lupin]

enough said.

 

[misterdog]

Not exactly bell wire but just run of the mill standard cable from the local hardware shop, more than good enough.
Most definitely don't need "audiophile grade" garden hose thick wire with 10000+ % of profit margins to get good sound.

CANARE 4S11 STAR QUAD Speaker cable Copper 4x2.08mm² Ø10.7mm - Audiophonics

Voici le câble CANARE 4S11, un câble Haut-parleur parfait pour un bi-câblage de qualité et à petit prix. Ce dernier possède 4 conducteurs en Cuivre haute qualité, avec une très longue durée de vie.

www.audiophonics.fr

5 Euro/M.

Japanese engineered quality.

Twisted-pair cabling was invented by Alexander Graham Bell in 1881. By 1900, the entire American telephone network was either twisted pair or open wire with transposition to guard against interference.

Nuff said .

Though 'good enough' is fine if the the rest of your system is built on such a philosophy.

 

[misterdog]

enough said.

Benchmark don't do - good enough.

Neither do they do rip-off audiophoolery.

 

[Blashyrkh]

I am pretty interested in this discussion since I recently went balanced with both HD800 (XLR) and Westone UM50 pro (4.4).

I followed the steps of going balance first for the interconnections (SMSL DO300 -> toppi L70, worlds best cable mogami+neutrick ), and after some weeks for the headphones.
When I tested the interconnections I didn't hear much difference, trying a bit of blind A/B, since I can connect XLR and RCA simultanously but honestly there was not much of a change except for the volume.

What actually made my day, was when I swapped the headphones cables, for both.
Cables are "cheap" silver plated copper bought from amazon (50€ each), just for testing, didn't expect any change (except for volume) and pretty sure I would return them


The problem is that the changes are pretty evident, and can be summarized in having a much better imaging (the instruments are better placed in the space, the sense of being in a virtual room is more prominent), bass are slightly tighter and the rest of the spectrum is slightly smoother (but the phones are not brighter".

I know you are already thinking I'm hearing things just on expectation, but actually my expectations were to send the cables back.

I tried a blind test with HD800 (with westone I would feel the cable mounted when touching behind the ears). Changing the cable, playing some tracks changing the volume as I pleased, and changing again the cable (or even not). honestly I would pick up the cable even deaf.

I would like to have an explanation to this (we have 4 variables here: different connection, different cable type, different cable lenght, different amp architecture) or is this always the same "you are imagining things"?

 

[SIY]

I am pretty interested in this discussion since I recently went balanced with both HD800 (XLR) and Westone UM50 pro (4.4).

I followed the steps of going balance first for the interconnections (SMSL DO300 -> toppi L70, worlds best cable mogami+neutrick ), and after some weeks for the headphones.
When I tested the interconnections I didn't hear much difference, trying a bit of blind A/B, since I can connect XLR and RCA simultanously but honestly there was not much of a change except for the volume.

What actually made my day, was when I swapped the headphones cables, for both.
Cables are "cheap" silver plated copper bought from amazon (50€ each), just for testing, didn't expect any change (except for volume) and pretty sure I would return them


The problem is that the changes are pretty evident, and can be summarized in having a much better imaging (the instruments are better placed in the space, the sense of being in a virtual room is more prominent), bass are slightly tighter and the rest of the spectrum is slightly smoother (but the phones are not brighter".

I know you are already thinking I'm hearing things just on expectation, but actually my expectations were to send the cables back.

I tried a blind test with HD800 (with westone I would feel the cable mounted when touching behind the ears). Changing the cable, playing some tracks changing the volume as I pleased, and changing again the cable (or even not). honestly I would pick up the cable even deaf.

I would like to have an explanation to this (we have 4 variables here: different connection, different cable type, different cable lenght, different amp architecture) or is this always the same "you are imagining things"?

Level-matching is a key control- how did you do that?

 

[Blashyrkh]

Level-matching is a key control- how did you do that?

I didn't do level matching, I play songs for let's say 15 minutes as I always do, leveling the volume as I please and varying from low to high.
I don't see the volume number and I start from very very low each time I have the cable swapped in order to not be influenced by the fact that a song plays louder with balnced

 

[SIY]

I didn't do level matching, I play songs for let's say 15 minutes as I always do, leveling the volume as I please and varying from low to high.
I don't see the volume number and I start from very very low each time I have the cable swapped in order to not be influenced by the fact that a song plays louder with balnced

OK, that clarifies things, thanks. You skipped a basic control, and likely a few more.

 

[Blashyrkh]

and likely a few more.

which one?

 

[Keith_W]

My amplifier (Violectric VHA-226) and DAP both output higher voltage into balanced. Since I am struggling for gain (Dan Clark Stealths), I go with balanced. It makes a small but noticeable difference, that extra gain.

 

[Blashyrkh]

My amplifier (Violectric VHA-226) and DAP both output higher voltage into balanced. Since I am struggling for gain (Dan Clark Stealths), I go with balanced. It makes a small but noticeable difference, that extra gain.

I do not struggle with HD800, depending on the track, just swapping to high gain is sufficient also in SE, at least for me

Can higher voltage been able to pilot a headphone better with real music (no sweeps) even if volume is sufficient? especially for high impedance?