AudioQuest PowerQuest 3 Video Review (AC Filter/Surge Protector)

[amirm]

Just adding on, he needs to capture the output of the same device twice in a row and show that it is zero. He doesn't do this.

FYI he is now at PS Audio making the same pitch.

 

[amira]

SurgeX is always in a fight with ZeroSurge on who invented the non-destructive surge protection.

There's really no question about it, ZeroSurge's founder filed patents 4,870,528 & 4,870,534 for "Series Mode" protection in 1988.

Those patents are now expired and the second version of series mode protection (wide voltage range) is based on patent 6,728,089 from 2004 and 7,068,487 from 2006.

IIRC, SurgeX licensed or bought the rights to the second set of patents, I don't feel like looking it up. Their earlier products cited the original ZeroSurge patents.

SurgeX slightly modified the design and called it "Advanced Series Mode". It performs better than the 2nd generation ZeroSurge design.

From the SurgeX manual showing the ZeroSurge patents.

 

[Pdxwayne]

He doesn't understand what the tool is doing. There is no such thing as "difference will be zero." Run to run analog capture will always have varying output due to noise, etc. Audiodiffmaker can compensate for some of the effects, but not all.

If I understand you correctly, even when using good chain, it is possible that the differences between each analog capture would be big enough to create audible tunes, am I correct?

Thanks!

 

[SIY]

If I understand you correctly, even when using good chain, it is possible that the differences between each analog capture would be big enough to create audible tunes, am I correct?

Thanks!

The fact that it’s a tune is the first giveaway that the power conditioning is not doing anything.

 

[Pdxwayne]

The fact that it’s a tune is the first giveaway that the power conditioning is not doing anything.

Please elaborate? I thought the tune was the results of comparing with and without using Furman.

 

[SIY]

Please elaborate? I thought the tune was the results of comparing with and without using Furman.

The control is conveniently missing. Re-read Amir’s comment above. You had it right in comment 63.

 

[Pdxwayne]

The control is conveniently missing. Re-read Amir’s comment above. You had it right in comment 63.

I am super curious because I do have Furman Elite 15 power factor i. Not the super expensive one he showed in his video, but a step down.


If I am going to verify his claims, do you think checking like this would work?

Play REW sweep from laptop -> DAC -> ADC -> laptop -> capture via REW.

First plug everything to normal power strip and run sweep. Do it a few times.

Next plugin everything to Furman power conditioners and run same sweep again. Do it a few times.

Compare the captured graphs in REW?

Thanks!

 

[SIY]

I’m not terribly conversant in REW, but DeltaWave might be the easiest thing for file comparisons (that was another cheap trick the scammer used, conflating time and frequency domain representation). However... there’s even a more straightforward way: do you hear a noise difference with no music playing? If not, then QED. Power line noise doesn’t start when music is playing and then suddenly stop when the music does.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I’m not terribly conversant in REW, but DeltaWave might be the easiest thing for file comparisons (that was another cheap trick the scammer used, conflating time and frequency domain representation). However... there’s even a more straightforward way: do you hear a noise difference with no music playing? If not, then QED. Power line noise doesn’t start when music is playing and then suddenly stop when the music does.

My speakers always produce a little noise (almost like ground loop noise) without any music playing. That is with my setup already plugged into the Furman and everything turned on. Not obvious in seating position, but I can hear it when standing near my speakers. So hard to know for sure with speakers setup.

With the headphones setup, I have not tried cheap strip. I use tripp-lite and no noise that I could hear.

 

[Buster Chestnut]

If you need clean AC power for some reason, I think one of the more convenient ways to get it is by using an online (double conversion) UPS, which also feeds everything downstream through a DC stage with filtration. I haven't had the need for it myself so I don't know how well the cheapest <1000 usd/eur UPS'es perform, that'd be interesting to see some measurements on. I'm sure you can get a very well performing UPS for much less than some of these astronomically priced audiophile bullshit products though.

You can find plenty of quality online UPS for sub-$1K, usually just the little brother of more typical 2-5KVA ones. Only real issue is fan noise, but you also have to know what you’re looking for.

The stuff marketed for “audiophiles” or for home AV, even from some of the more common brands, I would steer clear of.

And fanless UPS scare the hell out of me.

 

[IVX]

Actually, nobody needs to regenerate the whole Sine wave from the outlet, only 3-15 harmonics compensation is sufficient. Hence, we need to generate only 3-10%(the initial outlet "Sine" THD corresponds to that power) of the AC power and save 90-95% of the regenerator cost. Furthermore, the efficiency of such AC regenerator will reach 99% easily because only 1/20 of the output power will be regenerated(95% of the output power just goes from an outlet to your high-end equipment directly, 5% regenerated to compensate distortions, and finally loses will be around 1/2%), and with class D invertor of course.

 

[SIY]

My speakers always produce a little noise (almost like ground loop noise) without any music playing. That is with my setup already plugged into the Furman and everything turned on. Not obvious in seating position, but I can hear it when standing near my speakers.

Is the same noise there regardless of whether you're directly plugged into the mains versus the "conditioner"?

Side note: there's no excuse to have audibly noisy equipment in 2021. If I wanted to fling money around, I'd put it there rather than dubious Band-Aids.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Is the same noise there regardless of whether you're directly plugged into the mains versus the "conditioner"?

Side note: there's no excuse to have audibly noisy equipment in 2021. If I wanted to fling money around, I'd put it there rather than dubious Band-Aids.

Unfortunately, the issue is with my amps. I heard it with Parasound A21 and A23, no matter I use Furman or not.

Using my vintage Yamaha integrated amp, no such noise from my speakers (but also plugged into Furman).

I discussed that with Parasound before and I was told their amps do not make noise. But, the dealer confirmed to me that he heard such noise with their setup too.....

Anyway, I got the Furman mostly for the convenient of multiple outlets, power surge protection, and also potential benefit of power factor (which supposed to provide short term wattage boost for my power hungry subs that have combined rating of ~2500 RMS watts). I am still curious about its other claimed benefits of AC filtering.

 

[SIY]

I am still curious about its other claimed benefits of AC filtering.

If your amp or DAC benefits from AC filtering (and you're not in some remote hellhole with donkey-powered generators or attached to a Vandegraff generator), it is badly designed.

 

[Pdxwayne]

If your amp or DAC benefits from AC filtering (and you're not in some remote hellhole with donkey-powered generators or attached to a Vandegraff generator), it is badly designed.

Yeah, they should just work fine, with or without.

Still curious about things mentioned in this video and if Ac filtering would help....

 

[Buster Chestnut]

If your amp or DAC benefits from AC filtering (and you're not in some remote hellhole with donkey-powered generators or attached to a Vandegraff generator), it is badly designed.

Tell me more about this green donkey energy

 

[SIY]

Still curious about things mentioned in this video and if Ac filtering would help....

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Pdxwayne]

One has nothing to do with the other.

You meant power supply noise in that video does not apply to audio devices?

 

[SIY]

You meant power supply noise in that video does not apply to audio devices?

Are you confusing mains with power supplies?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Are you confusing mains with power supplies?

By now, you should know better to always assume that I am not expert in anything inside electronics.
: P

Anyway, I did a quick check with Topping E30. Using normal power strip vs Furman made no difference in REW Sweep chart. : )