Audiophile music player for Windows/Mac and your opinion...

[Mnyb]

Using system wide EQ means compromising your audio quality...

Actually not no so much on modern windows , we have a tread on it somewhere on the forum .
Not enough to bother.
Windows has gotten a lot better since the kernel mixer days of win-95 so i get why one is doing the bit perfect special driver dance out of sheer habit I did that too .

 

[MAB]

Why not trying VSTs?

I have used VST for all sorts of purposes. I am not against that approach. It just doesn't go well with my workflow.

 

[Mnyb]

Actually not no so much on modern windows , we have a tread on it somewhere on the forum .
Not enough to bother.
Windows has gotten a lot better since the kernel mixer days of win-95 so i get why one is doing the bit perfect special driver dance out of sheer habit I did that too .

Yeah with settings recommended in that tread I have no adverse side effects and the computer is actually usable . EQ is necessary for good headphone sound and you appreciate it on software with no eq on their own like games and streaming services for movies and Spotify or YouTube .

The benefits of eq is such that it completely overwhelmes any small theoretical issues elsewhere or real issues like diminishing SNR ratio which are a given with any EQ system digital or not ( fix get an USB DAC with very low noise floor and your good )

 

[Rottmannash]

ITunes is not a streamer, it happens to be integrated with Apple Music service, similar to Roon. ITunes has a local library, which can be local or on NAS.


Fair enough.


Indeed, which is where music is played. I haven’t used a desktop based player app for years. Why attached to a computer when you have a tablet or even mobile in your hand while sitting on your sofa/chair?

When i used iTunes a thousand years ago it didn't allow for bit perfect playback and most of the files I bought off their site weren't lossless.

 

[ZolaIII]

Yeah with settings recommended in that tread I have no adverse side effects and the computer is actually usable . EQ is necessary for good headphone sound and you appreciate it on software with no eq on their own like games and streaming services for movies and Spotify or YouTube .

The benefits of eq is such that it completely overwhelmes any small theoretical issues elsewhere or real issues like diminishing SNR ratio which are a given with any EQ system digital or not ( fix get an USB DAC with very low noise floor and your good )

Which diminishing SNR ratio with digital EQ? Today players as JRiver use internal 64 bit floting point precision processing (while best standalone solutions lag back to 32 bit FP not that it matters much anyway) for effects chain and it's glued back perfectly to 24~32 bit integer and send to DAC like that (and best DAC mesured stretches 23 bit integer SINAD).

 

[rwortman]

Is Roon capable of VST plugins?

No. I have a DAW and a bunch of VST plugins. Never thought I needed them for in room music playback.

 

[sarumbear]

When i used iTunes a thousand years ago it didn't allow for bit perfect playback and most of the files I bought off their site weren't lossless.

I don’t know if you are doing this intentionally or you are confused with what a player is. Strange that you even post a vote on players.

iTunes is a player that was published by Apple and was integrated with their download shop. As any player it plays bit perfect. As a store they only sold lossy tracks. However, it allowed you to rip CDs to uncompressed format files to a library. You can add other compatible files that you obtained independently to that library as well. Hence, it was a player that is integrated with the iTunes service.

iTunes download shop still exists but Apple started a separate streaming service, Apple Music, which was integrated to iTunes. On the Mac iTunes is replaced with the Music app, soon that will happen on Windows too. The Music app is a player and a library manager, which is integrated with Apple’s iTunes and Apple Music services.

I hope this is clear and you understand the difference between bit-perfect player and lossy tracks.

 

[Berwhale]

That’s not EQ then, not even tone control, you want to alter what producers gave you. That’s not a player function, at all.

If i've measured the in room response of my speakers and calculated a correction in REW, I want that correction applied to all players on my system (i.e. system wide). In this respect, yes, it's not a player function. That was my point.

 

[PaperBoat]

You are bothered with something you do not understand. Players do not affect sound quality.

Actually, you didn't get my point at all... I'm questioning the authenticity of JRiver's bit-perfectness... I'm NOT telling that bit-perfect acts differently from player to player...

If you have a doubt about my understanding then well you should know that I'm not alone... 1) JRiver had a “fatter” sound with more bleeding edges and smeared textures. 2) JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?

Codec and source does.

Thanks for confirming it...

 

[PaperBoat]

No. I have a DAW and a bunch of VST plugins. Never thought I needed them for in room music playback.

I'm using DMG and Fabfilter...

 

[Jeromeof]

PlexAmp for me - works everywhere - nice metadata - sonic analysis of your collection - free with a Plex subscription

 

[Waxx]

Actually, you didn't get my point at all... I'm questioning the authenticity of JRiver's bit-perfectness... I'm NOT telling that bit-perfect acts differently from player to player...

If you have a doubt about my understanding then well you should know that I'm not alone... 1) JRiver had a “fatter” sound with more bleeding edges and smeared textures. 2) JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?




Thanks for confirming it...

That first link is just a guy claiming it without any scientific proof, and the second says this:

So if you want bit perfect, you need to use the software right, like any software.

 

[tuga]

I don’t know if you are doing this intentionally or you are confused with what a player is. Strange that you even post a vote on players.

iTunes is a player that was published by Apple and was integrated with their download shop. As any player it plays bit perfect. As a store they only sold lossy tracks. However, it allowed you to rip CDs to uncompressed format files to a library. You can add other compatible files that you obtained independently to that library as well. Hence, it was a player that is integrated with the iTunes service.

iTunes download shop still exists but Apple started a separate streaming service, Apple Music, which was integrated to iTunes. On the Mac iTunes is replaced with the Music app, soon that will happen on Windows too. The Music app is a player and a library manager, which is integrated with Apple’s iTunes and Apple Music services.

I hope this is clear and you understand the difference between bit-perfect player and lossy tracks.

And then there's BitPerfect for iTunes, which will switch sampling rates automatically:

What is BitPerfect?

BitPerfect is an App that runs alongside iTunes and provides capabilities to improve its playback of high quality audio files. When you use...

bitperfectsound.blogspot.com

 

[sarumbear]

If you have a doubt about my understanding then well you should know that I'm not alone... 1) JRiver had a “fatter” sound with more bleeding edges and smeared textures. 2) JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?

The world is full of people who think they hear things. They are subjectivists.

Nothing happens when you transfer a file from one location to another, which is what a player does.

 

[Mnyb]

Which diminishing SNR ratio with digital EQ? Today players as JRiver use internal 64 bit floting point precision processing (while best standalone solutions lag back to 32 bit FP not that it matters much anyway) for effects chain and it's glued back perfectly to 24~32 bit integer and send to DAC like that (and best DAC mesured stretches 23 bit integer SINAD).

A Yes the level of the signal sent to the DAC is by necessity a bit lower to make room for the eq if it contains some bass boast which I have and some extra headroom for intersample overs in the process there some negative gain applied In EQ . So I need to crank up the headphone amp some more with eq getting closer to the noise floor of the system.
But it is practicaly neglible as the noise floor of the Toping D70 is quite low , so I don’t hear any negative effect only positive ones .

 

[theREALdotnet]

iTunes is a player that was published by Apple and was integrated with their download shop. As any player it plays bit perfect. As a store they only sold lossy tracks. However, it allowed you to rip CDs to uncompressed format files to a library.

In fact, one of its original tag lines was “Rip – Mix – Burn”

I’ve used iTunes/Music (in all its various capabilities, incl. Match) for many years, but these days not so much. It lacks two key things I require for my current listening habits: an iPad remote app and support for other streaming services like Qobuz. There is also the lack of support for FLAC and DSF files, of which I have many, but I could work around that by converting them to ALAC if I weren’t so lazy.

I mostly use Audirvana, which covers these bases and consumes everything in my iTunes library as well. Occasionally, there is a track that streams only from Apple Music and not Qobuz, for those I use the iTunes (i.e. the Music app). My room EQ is system-wide (DLBC), so switching between players is no issue.

 

[ZolaIII]

A Yes the level of the signal sent to the DAC is by necessity a bit lower to make room for the eq if it contains some bass boast which I have and some extra headroom for intersample overs in the process there some negative gain applied In EQ . So I need to crank up the headphone amp some more with eq getting closer to the noise floor of the system.
But it is practicaly neglible as the noise floor of the Toping D70 is quite low , so I don’t hear any negative effect only positive ones .

Only if you lower it down or don't compensate it correctly.
I spill power all the time and pretty much everywhere (EBU R128, volume trim on power amplifier, optical lv input, Linkwitz transformer to sub...) and still have more than needed even for a party and effects are always positive.

 

[sarumbear]

In fact, one of its original tag lines was “Rip – Mix – Burn”

I’ve used iTunes/Music (in all its various capabilities, incl. Match) for many years, but these days not so much. It lacks two key things I require for my current listening habits: an iPad remote app and support for other streaming services like Qobuz. There is also the lack of support for FLAC and DSF files, of which I have many, but I could work around that by converting them to ALAC if I weren’t so lazy.

I mostly use Audirvana, which covers these bases and consumes everything in my iTunes library as well. Occasionally, there is a track that streams only from Apple Music and not Qobuz, for those I use the iTunes (i.e. the Music app). My room EQ is system-wide (DLBC), so switching between players is no issue.

Have you tried Plesk Plex, which can read iTunes libraries?

 

[theREALdotnet]

Have you tried Plesk, which can read iTunes libraries?

You mean Plex? I’m using that on my Apple TV for movies, with the Plex server running on the NAS. I haven’t tried it for music playback. Can it be remote controlled via some app? My music playing Mac mini is headless.

 

[beeface]

These days I'm ashamed to admit that I stream 100% of the time, but back when I listened to my music library I enjoyed foobar2000. It wasn't pretty, but I made it work for me.