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Ascend Sierra-1 V2 Speaker Review

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 2 0.6%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 8 2.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 49 14.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 275 82.3%

  • Total voters
    334

Toni Mas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2022
Messages
490
Likes
315
You're reading too much into it and making it something it's not. Frankly ridiculous. We want good engineered speakers, and Klippel is a tool that help achieves that, if you want to read some kind of imaginary stigma into it then that's really just your problem. For those that don't know about measurements & don't know what Klippel even is then they still get a good designed speaker because of it, so everyone wins (except your imaginary problems).
Ok, I have to admit my mistake and will try to make myself forgiven.

Hey there, potential loudspeaker buyers, take good care! If a loudspeaker has not been optimized using Klippel's NFS, your money is at risk, so please stay away from that potential crap!:eek:
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
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Jan 23, 2020
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UK
Ok, I have to admit my mistake and will try to make myself forgiven.

Hey there, potential loudspeaker buyers, take good care! If a loudspeaker has not been optimized using Klippel's NFS, please stay away!:eek:
(I don't think it's worth taking up anymore space with this thread of conversation)
 

Bruce Morgen

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
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You just come off bitter, why, I have no idea.
It's hard to imagine what got a bee into Toni's bonnet over this. His extreme level of passion and persistence has me wondering if some sort of "marketing ethics" PTSD is involved, some past incident that has made this issue so personal for the guy -- or perhaps the "political" aspect of "political correctness" is in play. :facepalm:
 

kma100

Active Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2020
Messages
173
Likes
261
Yeah not sure what’s going on here. Sometimes people dig in and refuse to let go. Anyway. Great speakers by a great company. I tried out the their Sierra bookshelves several years ago and really liked them.
 

Somafunk

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
1,472
Likes
3,449
Location
Scotland
For me It is not a sticker. A stigma is what It is, the stigma of political correctness. And that's what ennerves me...

Well done, you’ve earned an ignore
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,844
Likes
243,341
Location
Seattle Area
Hey there, potential loudspeaker buyers, take good care! If a loudspeaker has not been optimized using Klippel's NFS, your money is at risk, so please stay away from that potential crap!:eek:
You are making this stuff up on purpose? I have recommended huge number of products that are tested in anechoic chamber. No product is given an advantage because they use Klippel NFS. By your logic I should not have even tested the Sierra-1. Yet I did to verify its performance. I also listened to it and suggested a bit of EQ.

What is important here is closed loop product development: design, measure, iterate. Many companies substitute "listen" by one designer for measure. That could work but many times shows clear issues that measurements could have found and needed to be fixed. This is the transition Ascend as made. They point this out because their business is very focused on word of mouth and forum discussions so their potential customers would see this "NFS" mark as some vote of confidence. They would still want the product tested but the mark, backed by their measurements, went quite far.
 

Eytsch

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2022
Messages
17
Likes
78
Location
Seattle
...I don't trust my ear to tune a guitar...
If I may inject a light hearted digression - I'm with you on your point, but no audio enthusiast should feel insecure about tuning a guitar.

Just play the natural harmonics, let them ring at as close a level as possible, focus on the beat frequency and make it disappear.
 

Labjr

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
1,079
Likes
994
If I may inject a light hearted digression - I'm with you on your point, but no audio enthusiast should feel insecure about tuning a guitar.

Just play the natural harmonics, let them ring at as close a level as possible, focus on the beat frequency and make it disappear

That maybe ok when playing by yourself but not when you're playing with a band. I use a strobe tuner with accuracy of ±.02 cents. I challenge anyone to tune that close by ear on a good day.

 

Jaxjax

Active Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2022
Messages
241
Likes
173
If I may inject a light hearted digression - I'm with you on your point, but no audio enthusiast should feel insecure about tuning a guitar.

Just play the natural harmonics, let them ring at as close a level as possible, focus on the beat frequency and make it disappear.
True....
but it's sure nice to grab a guitar off the wall & run it thru the tuner on my pedal board.. That dang Boss Chromatic tuner was the best pedal I ever put on my board. Guitar addiction can be wayyyy worse then anything you see on ASR...lol
 

Bruce Morgen

Addicted to Fun and Learning
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Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
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1,445
True....
but it's sure nice to grab a guitar off the wall & run it thru the tuner on my pedal board.. That dang Boss Chromatic tuner was the best pedal I ever put on my board. Guitar addiction can be wayyyy worse then anything you see on ASR...lol
Tell me about it -- I've thinned my herd down to only eight.
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
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Joined
Feb 7, 2020
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Ok, I have to admit my mistake and will try to make myself forgiven.

Hey there, potential loudspeaker buyers, take good care! If a loudspeaker has not been optimized using Klippel's NFS, your money is at risk, so please stay away from that potential crap!:eek:
I prefer just to keep my distance from marketing people....and there is no forgiving marketing people.
 

AscendDF

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Mar 25, 2022
Messages
75
Likes
1,083
I simply can’t believe what I am reading.

Is that person seriously implying that we made this massive investment in our R&D capabilities for marketing purposes? So that we can put a tiny 1 1/2-inch sticker on the back of a speaker?

That would be the single worst marketing campaign imaginable, at least since the Bud Light fiasco. Marketing, by definition, implies an activity to encourage sales. No one even sees that sticker until -after- they purchase the speakers, assuming they even notice it or even know what it means. My apologies to ASR, but while this website is growing, ASR represents such a small niche in this industry. The vast majority of our customers don’t even know what NFS stands for.

I could’ve sent the speaker out to Klippel (Klippel offered this service to me) to get the data I needed and then still have used that sticker. That would’ve cost us nothing but maybe $200 in shipping fees. Or we could’ve simply purchased the base NFS unit rather than having continually expanded our R&D after the initial purchase by spending another $30K or so on add-on modules.

Truth is, that sticker came to be so that we can save a few thousand $$$ by using up our old inventory of product labels before purchasing and designing new V2 labels. There must be a way to distinguish new V2 units from original V1, and we thought putting “NFS Optimized” on the V2 label looked better than simply a plain “V2”. In our product line, V2 literally means NFS optimized. I recently had a customer ask if it meant that the speaker sounded "fast", because to him, and probably thousand others, NFS means "Need for Speed"

I suppose that poster thinks maybe it was our intention to use these stickers so they can get some positive vibes here at ASR. I can understand that thought process. But had this person read the full review, he would have quickly learned that we had absolutely nothing to do with having this speaker tested by Amir. In fact, I had specifically requested that this customer avoid sending his speaker to Amir after he informed me that was his intention. Why did I request that? For specifically this reason of crazy nit-picking that can sometimes occur here.

Feel free to ask this customer himself, he is probably reading this thread.

What kind of ingenious marketing expert would spend, in the neighborhood of, $150k to put a tiny sticker on the back of a speaker meant to gain some favor at a review website where that same marketing genius tries to avoid having the speaker sent to that website for review? Makes absolutely no sense.

I suppose I should be somewhat flattered that someone would think a small company like Ascend would have that kind of marketing budget. There is no conceivable way we will ever recoup our expenditure for the NFS, nor do I care. For anyone who knows our history, or anything about me at all - I have been measuring / testing loudspeakers as a professional in this industry since around 1987. I have owned or have used basically every measurement device ever made for taking these types of measurements. NFS is presently the SOA, and by a wide margin. Even if I were retired from Ascend, I would have still made this purchase as this is simply what I do. If eventually something better replaces the NFS, and assuming I am still fit enough to lift speakers - I will be purchasing that device as well.

The irony in all of this is that this person is here, on this forum, publicly sharing his thoughts (which he is entitled to), for which this website and forum would not even exist without Amir’s purchase of an NFS…. Strange….
 

Ken1951

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
879
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1,868
Location
Blacksburg, VA
I simply can’t believe what I am reading.

Is that person seriously implying that we made this massive investment in our R&D capabilities for marketing purposes? So that we can put a tiny 1 1/2-inch sticker on the back of a speaker?

That would be the single worst marketing campaign imaginable, at least since the Bud Light fiasco. Marketing, by definition, implies an activity to encourage sales. No one even sees that sticker until -after- they purchase the speakers, assuming they even notice it or even know what it means. My apologies to ASR, but while this website is growing, ASR represents such a small niche in this industry. The vast majority of our customers don’t even know what NFS stands for.

I could’ve sent the speaker out to Klippel (Klippel offered this service to me) to get the data I needed and then still have used that sticker. That would’ve cost us nothing but maybe $200 in shipping fees. Or we could’ve simply purchased the base NFS unit rather than having continually expanded our R&D after the initial purchase by spending another $30K or so on add-on modules.

Truth is, that sticker came to be so that we can save a few thousand $$$ by using up our old inventory of product labels before purchasing and designing new V2 labels. There must be a way to distinguish new V2 units from original V1, and we thought putting “NFS Optimized” on the V2 label looked better than simply a plain “V2”. In our product line, V2 literally means NFS optimized. I recently had a customer ask if it meant that the speaker sounded "fast", because to him, and probably thousand others, NFS means "Need for Speed"

I suppose that poster thinks maybe it was our intention to use these stickers so they can get some positive vibes here at ASR. I can understand that thought process. But had this person read the full review, he would have quickly learned that we had absolutely nothing to do with having this speaker tested by Amir. In fact, I had specifically requested that this customer avoid sending his speaker to Amir after he informed me that was his intention. Why did I request that? For specifically this reason of crazy nit-picking that can sometimes occur here.

Feel free to ask this customer himself, he is probably reading this thread.

What kind of ingenious marketing expert would spend, in the neighborhood of, $150k to put a tiny sticker on the back of a speaker meant to gain some favor at a review website where that same marketing genius tries to avoid having the speaker sent to that website for review? Makes absolutely no sense.

I suppose I should be somewhat flattered that someone would think a small company like Ascend would have that kind of marketing budget. There is no conceivable way we will ever recoup our expenditure for the NFS, nor do I care. For anyone who knows our history, or anything about me at all - I have been measuring / testing loudspeakers as a professional in this industry since around 1987. I have owned or have used basically every measurement device ever made for taking these types of measurements. NFS is presently the SOA, and by a wide margin. Even if I were retired from Ascend, I would have still made this purchase as this is simply what I do. If eventually something better replaces the NFS, and assuming I am still fit enough to lift speakers - I will be purchasing that device as well.

The irony in all of this is that this person is here, on this forum, publicly sharing his thoughts (which he is entitled to), for which this website and forum would not even exist without Amir’s purchase of an NFS…. Strange….
And a fair few of us have placed him on ignore for these actions. I'm not in the market for speakers but I'm sure son #1 will be in the near future and yours will be ones I recommend. Thanks for your participation here.
 

AscendDF

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Mar 25, 2022
Messages
75
Likes
1,083
And a fair few of us have placed him on ignore for these actions. I'm not in the market for speakers but I'm sure son #1 will be in the near future and yours will be ones I recommend. Thanks for your participation here.
thank you!
 

Mnyb

Major Contributor
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Aug 14, 2019
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Sweden, Västerås
You can make spins in an anechoic chamber , but this Is more expensive and labour intense .

This product replaces a building and hours of labour due to its automation .
So it makes sense you get a much quicker turnaround the measurement can be ongoing while you do other stuff.
So you can fit many more prototype iteration trough on your given project time .
and it actually does it better ?

They make other products too , the drivers in many speakers are developed with some other products from the same company. They are probably as ubiquitous as Audio Precision are for electronics .

Marketing. there was time when every speaker company had a little pic of thier anechoic chamber with a mic in front of a speaker making it look sciency :) :)
 
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