Ascend Acoustics new Klippel optimized speaker

[ROOSKIE]

is that, errm, good or bad?

It is extremely good for HD.

Overall 3rd order is below 1% for most of the frequency range @86db and even at 96db.
2nd order which measures a little higher here in spots is considered extremely hard to hear even in fairly large doses. What is here is very clean.

This looks to be superb, actually stunning results for a 6" woofer. The tweeter seems to be quite robust as well as it has low HD and no benefit of here of being loading in a waveguide/horn.

Of course nobody knows at what point HD really becomes audible in typical content playback and at what frequency's it is most troublesome.
Technical excellence is here and you likely can rest assured you won't have to worry about HD. I am sure one should still be using a HP with a sub for handing the lowest stuff and easing the drivers excursion.
One thing that would have to be ear checked is port turbulence/noise though usually I see high 4th and 5th order distortion where there is port overloading and these seem clean enough there.
Another thing is cabinet resonances which often show something on the HD plot and again not seeing issues here.

 

[AscendDF]

It regulates the voltage output so if you tell it to spit out 2.83v, it does that.

Microphone sensitivity can also be entered.

As long as Dave got that right (which, I’m sure he did), it’s pretty much foolproof on the Klippel side of things. Even if he tested with a different voltage, the software will adjust based on what you tell it to. For example, 2.83v. Or if someone wanted to make up their own standard they just type the desired voltage in. I do that for my powered speaker tests, where I use 0.30v.

Hey Erin,

Yes and no.

The complex data export module for the NFS functions a bit differently than the basic text export. Pierre requested phase data, which can only be exported using this module (a near $10k add on) Pierre provided me with few details, I did not know he was going to be basing sensitivity on the export files I provided him.

This NFS export data module defaults to a 2m radius and 1v output. It is a different set of options compared to the far field visualization settings. I don’t recall what the reference voltage was even set for, as I didn’t think it would matter since I thought he was just using the raw data for generating spins. I was not aware he was going to be providing various specifications. My brief look at his site showed calculated spin graphs, I should have dug a bit deeper (entirely my fault)

That stated, I have provided him with new export data, properly referenced to 2.83v and a 1 meter radius (mic distance) so he can *properly* calculate sensitivity.

Obviously, the sensitivity spec he listed is off by quite a bit I am sure he will correct this promptly.

 

[ROOSKIE]

What makes this speaker somewhat unique is the excursion of the woofer, which at 22mm is very, very high. I think the SB acoustics woofers at this size are something like half that - this is closer to what Purifi offers.

Yah but the linear cone travel of the off the shelf Seas version is 14mm p-p (22mm is near self destruct)
Typical 6" SB linear is 11mm p-p (a bit more for some Satori versions)
Purifi 6.5" linear is almost 20mm p-p

That 22mm is mechanical or whatever so Purifi is is at around 29mm p-p and SB doesn't give that spec.

Still it is surely impressive for a 6", just deff not double a good SB or Satori.
It is also not fugly like the Purifi. It is a nice looking driver.

 

[HooStat]

What is also amazing is that the Ascend is, coincidentally, very similar to the March Audio Sointuva from a performance perspective, but is less than half of the cost. Both have relatively low sensitivity and are using cutting edge drivers. It is nice to see so many manufacturers developing such well-engineered products. And nice to see some smaller manufacturers and local companies (I am in CA too) competing.

 

[Ilkless]

.And nice to see some smaller manufacturers and local companies (I am in CA too) competing.

I imagine Ascend's production scale, size of line-up and development cycle is at a point where an NFS starts to make sense because of amortisation and the time saved to troubleshoot and iterate. These two factors mean the NFS will likely more than pay for itself with time

 

[pierre]

I do not want to start a riot, but looking at Pierre Aubert's take on the spin (MANY THANKS FOR YOUR WORK, btw @pierre), I can't help but scratch my head : when looking at the data tab, the sensitivity is quoted as an incredibly low 75.4dB (300Hz-3kHz)

https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/speakers/Ascend%20Acoustics%20Sierra-LX/Ascend%20Acoustics/index_vendor.htm

Since the data has just been posted, chances are this could be a typo or else, it is not standardized and one should not make much of it?

Yes, watts are cheap and the distortion figures are awesome @86dB and still very good @96dB, but I can't help thinking something is off.

If one clever ASR member could enlighten me, please?
Thanks in advance!

It regulates the voltage output so if you tell it to spit out 2.83v, it does that.

Microphone sensitivity can also be entered.

As long as Dave got that right (which, I’m sure he did), it’s pretty much foolproof on the Klippel side of things. Even if he tested with a different voltage, the software will adjust based on what you tell it to. For example, 2.83v. Or if someone wanted to make up their own standard they just type the desired voltage in. I do that for my powered speaker tests, where I use 0.30v.

Hello,

while I was sleeping, Dave sent me a new set of data with a voltage output of 2.83v. This yielded a sensitivity of 81.4. With class D amplifier this is not an issue at all.

I would like to commend Dave (@AscendDF) for sending me the data. He is the first manufacturer to do so. I hope his example will push more companies to publish the same data.

1400$ for a pair of this speakers (LX) is a really good deal.

Pierre

 

[AscendDF]

I imagine Ascend's production scale, size of line-up and development cycle is at a point where an NFS starts to make sense because of amortisation and the time saved to troubleshoot and iterate. These two factors mean the NFS will likely more than pay for itself with time

I strongly doubt that we will ever recoup our investment in the NFS, and that is perfectly OK with me. For what I do, for what I enjoy doing with regard to this industry, what keeps me in it, the NFS was an absolute must as it reinvigorates my interest in the science behind what we hear.

I have been at this for so long now (approaching 40 years in this industry, ugghhh) but other than working on the very first THX certified speakers (maybe 30 years ago) - I can't recall a time when I have been more passionately involved in research. This industry is truly changing for the better, and at a very fast pace now. There is no question we still have plenty to learn, but the NFS now makes taking the next steps possible. It reminds me of when we moved from measuring speakers in a room with an RTA, to quasi-anechoic measurements made possible by Doug Rife and the introduction of his MLSSA test system.

 

[Haint]

View attachment 193316

Looks like an excellent performer (sensitivity not withstanding), but quite plain looking for $1500+/pair. For a direct point of comparison in the marketplace, a motivated dealer would likely sell you 3x M105's (LCR) for around this price.

 

[pierre]

Looks like an excellent performer (sensitivity not withstanding), but quite plain looking for $1500+/pair. For a direct point of comparison in the marketplace, a motivated dealer would likely sell you 3x M105's (LCR) for around this price.

Good point. They are very similar but the LX is still a better speaker: flatter with significantly more bass. Graphs source is here.

If you look at the difference between the two, it is easier to see the gap:

 

[Sancus]

Good point. They are very similar but the LX is still a better speaker: flatter with significantly more bass.

The M105 also has a smaller 5" woofer and way more distortion at high SPL, like 10dB++. The M106 is the better comparison but the LX still significantly outperforms that in extension and distortion.

The only real downside is 4.4dB less sensitivity but given cheap, massive class D power availability that's a good tradeoff I'd say.

 

[Ericglo]

What is also amazing is that the Ascend is, coincidentally, very similar to the March Audio Sointuva from a performance perspective, but is less than half of the cost. Both have relatively low sensitivity and are using cutting edge drivers. It is nice to see so many manufacturers developing such well-engineered products. And nice to see some smaller manufacturers and local companies (I am in CA too) competing.

In comparison to March and Revel, I do prefer products made in the US. With a certain country's massive influence in the world, I have begun to increase my "Made in the USA" purchases.

 

[Ericglo]

For what it’s worth, I believe I saw where Dave made the statement that he is the first internet direct manufacturer to design a speaker using the near field scanner. That is not accurate. Buchardt - an internet direct manufacturer - used the NFS to design their S400 well over two years ago. Which means Buchardt is likely the first to fit that description.

Does Buchardt own a NFS?

If not, then would it be accurate to say that Ascend is the first ID to purchase a NFS and use it to design a speaker?

 

[ROOSKIE]

In comparison to March and Revel, I do prefer products made in the US. With a certain country's massive influence in the world, I have begun to increase my "Made in the USA" purchases.

Just out of curiosity what part, outside of design and final assembly, of these units is made in the USA?
I think they are a sweet design though I am not seeing where this made in USA idea comes from.

 

[hardisj]

Does Buchardt own a NFS?

If not, then would it be accurate to say that Ascend is the first ID to purchase a NFS and use it to design a speaker?

Correct, they (Buchardt) do not own one. I'm not trying to nitpick the statement. Maybe I misremember or am misquoting. If Dave said what I think I saw them say then he should amend his statement. This isn't a huge deal. I just noticed that and was immediately reminded that Buchardt had touted the NFS as part of their design process for the S400 a couple years back.

 

[hardisj]

Hey Erin

Dave, FWIW, when I send @pierre our data, I do so by just providing the SPL Horizontal and SPL Vertical data provided from the CEA-2034 module. Right click, save as text. I do this because that's what Amir posts for them and the guys wanted the data in the same format.

Not that it matters now. Just letting you know for future reference.

 

[Ericglo]

Just out of curiosity what part, outside of design and final assembly, of these units is made in the USA?
I think they are a sweet design though I am not seeing where this made in USA idea comes from.

Obviously the drivers are not made int the US. I am not sure about the other parts. The cabinets are made in the US.

 

[Ericglo]

Correct, they (Buchardt) do not own one. I'm not trying to nitpick the statement. Maybe I misremember or am misquoting. If Dave said what I think I saw them say then he should amend his statement. This isn't a huge deal. I just noticed that and was immediately reminded that Buchardt had touted the NFS as part of their design process for the S400 a couple years back.

I agree about not making a big deal out of it. I just think it is neat that Ascend was willing to spend the money to invest in a NFS. They could have just as easily sent it out to have it measured, which is what most companies should do if they don't want to purchase a NFS.

 

[hardisj]

Woah, the Klippel can natively do the PIR/EIR at different levels of toe-in? Wonder if it can do that for the Spinoramas too. Cool (Assuming it actually is recomputing the vertical data and not just using the same vertical data from the on-axis computation, as even I can do that).

You just change the reference position and run it. I've mentioned this in other reviews on this forum when the reference was at the wrong spot (i.e., at the tweeter rather than between the waveguide/midwoofer, etc).

 

[ROOSKIE]

Obviously the drivers are not made int the US. I am not sure about the other parts. The cabinets are made in the US.

No domestic cabs for these.
I don't think any part of these is made in the USA at all. (Which is understandable these days though nobody should be buying these thinking they are made here in the US)
If domestic cabs become available for these that would be cool, they look better to me with the magnetic grills. Upcharge on the Sierra is about $200 for them.

 

[hardisj]

I agree about not making a big deal out of it. I just think it is neat that Ascend was willing to spend the money to invest in a NFS. They could have just as easily sent it out to have it measured, which is what most companies should do if they don't want to purchase a NFS.

For sure. Very cool. Especially to see one as "small scale" as Ascend. There are definitely other companies who own the NFS to design their speakers. A few of them make this public knowledge. Others do not. I've talked with a few of them and know of (2) that have been purchased after talking to me about how the NFS works. In fact, I'm having a Zoom meeting next Monday with another (smaller scale) manufacturer who wants to ask me some questions about my experience with the NFS because they're leaning hard toward buying one and just want a bit of extra info. (to be clear, I'm not the one selling, I'm just talking to the company to answer some user-based questions which are usually "is it as easy as it looks?" and "how long does it take to measure a speaker?")

And makes it that much crazier that people are buying the NFS simply to review speakers...