Are Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil DAC Inconsistent?

[Wombat]

This isn't surpring, its just like when I first discovered the USB issue and tried to report it as a bug like a good user.
Instead I was met with backlash, and I offered Jude my unit to test aswell after he PM'd me raging. But he never replied about that and as most of you guys know on the site just ended up banning me after he told me I'm not allowed to talk about Schiit issues on the site again.
When Jason from Schiit contacted me on HeadFi I also told him about the issues and told him to test my unit, but he told me there is no need because he knows there isn't a problem and that its on my side.
Since it looks like we have established that the reviews aren't genuine and that the hardware may be cherry picked, well there isn't much more to this story. This is intentional deception and marketing, and as you mentioned I wouldn't be surprised if some of it violates FTC rules.

I know that with my father working for toy companies, that when they do marketing or make claims for products or send things for reviews... everything has to be very clear or they can easily end up in alot of hot water.

It seems like little kids get more active protection than those big audio babies who should know better.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

when I first discovered the USB issue

What problem did you have with USB?

 

[mindbomb]

In that headfi thread, jude later reveals he has a benchmark dac 3. So this whole time, he knew what $2k of dac performance could look like, and still felt it was appropriate to defend the yggdrasil? That seems very strange to me.

 

[Jimster480]

What problem did you have with USB?

Pop/Crack sounds that happen on quiet tracks.
Amir finally uncovered it a few months ago and did a post on it.

In that headfi thread, jude later reveals he has a benchmark dac 3. So this whole time, he knew what $2k of dac performance could look like, and still felt it was appropriate to defend the yggdrasil? That seems very strange to me.

because money was likely changing hands.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Amir finally uncovered it a few months ago and did a post on it.

Looking but did not see it, is there a link. Thank you

 

[Frank Dernie]

Wow I checked out some specs, seems like this is what I should have bought to begin with. Thank you But where do I buy it outside of massdrop? Seems like the Amazon one is down
Edit
Nevermind I'm dumb, the original dx7 is not available but the dx7s is. Well time to save up some money. I don't feel good selling the jotunheim to anyone considering the problems so I guess it will just collect dust when I buy the dx7s

If you put it on ebay at a low starting price, and knowing how popular these products are, fans of the brand will bid for it and it will sell. Fans of the brand will not be concerned about the poor measurements, there is copious evidence of this on this site, so let the free market decide.

 

[Jimster480]

Looking but did not see it, is there a link. Thank you

I looked around but wasn't easily able to find the link here. If you go through all the reviews you should come across it. I had to do with the Fulla2 I believe.

 

[mindbomb]

I looked around but wasn't easily able to find the link here. If you go through all the reviews you should come across it. I had to do with the Fulla2 I believe.

I think you are referring to the usb bugs in the modi 2 uber vs topping d30 review.
I also have heard anecdotally that there is a lot of noise on the magni 3 when using the volume control.

 

[raband]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/92700k/_/e34mq6u
Amir is not willing to back up his measurements?

 

[Grave]

r/headphones is full of retards

I got banned there for "trolling" pointing out Schitt is garbage.

 

[svart-hvitt]

In the original post, I addressed the fact atomicbob's measurements show the same results as mine. And how they don't paint a pretty picture of the performance of Schiit Yggdrasil.

Here is now a comparison of Jude at head-fi who likewise has called correctness of my measurements into question. This is a test of THD+N (harmonic distortion and noise) versus frequency. Lower values are better:

View attachment 14216

Once again we see that his measurements are essentially identical to mine (not surprising since we both use the same audio analyzer). What his graph once again is missing is competitive data to other DACs which I have in mind. In this case, the Topping DX7s which generates substantially lower noise and distortion than Schiit Yggdrasil DAC.

You can make any measurement look good by saying nice things about it and not have a point of reference. That is exactly what Bob Smith and Jude have done. If our aim is to inform in a highly competitive market, we better put these reference markers in there. Then the right picture, literally, emerges. Which sadly points to Schiit Yggdrasil simply not being competitive with other DACs.

Without a reference you can’t separate the wheat from the chaff.

In audio terms: You need a benchmark to evaluate the shit.

 

[Jimster480]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/92700k/_/e34mq6u
Amir is not willing to back up his measurements?

More fake news by the Schiit coverup team.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Wow I checked out some specs, seems like this is what I should have bought to begin with. Thank you But where do I buy it outside of massdrop? Seems like the Amazon one is down
Edit
Nevermind I'm dumb, the original dx7 is not available but the dx7s is. Well time to save up some money. I don't feel good selling the jotunheim to anyone considering the problems so I guess it will just collect dust when I buy the dx7s

@IdiotCustomer , I think you are the first customer showing qualms about selling your Schiit gear. Kudos to you!

This is, as far as I see it in light of @amirm ’s documenting hazardous electro risks and disturbingly low performance, an ethical problem. The interesting thing about ethical problems is our different ways of handling them.

 

[amirm]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/92700k/_/e34mq6u
Amir is not willing to back up his measurements?

He is wrong. I have offered my project files to anyone who request it. It is right there in the review. Two people have and I sent it to them.

 

[raband]

He is wrong.

yep - was only posting it here to give you right of reply if you gave a flying squirrel.

Or is it chipmunk where you are? (would be a possum where I am - no, not an opossum, whatever they are)

To me - it'd be no issue if Schiit came out and said -

"Hey guys, we're the platypus of the headphone world - we're a bit different to everything else, don't make any sense, but people love us in spite, or because of that"

Instead they present themselves as the swan. The ugly duckling turned legit.

The Rocky Balboa - gritty, against all odds and doing it from the street vs the Apollo Creed that is logic.

Would be a lot less painful on all fronts if they stopped pretending and just sold their stuff honestly for what it is.

And could take constructive criticism (and also serious flaws) onboard as an opportunity to improve rather than an attack.

Would be even better if their customers asked them the questions that are raised instead of attacking those asking the questions.

Yep = am drunk -tempted to purchase a DAC-3 while in this state.

Slightest issue and John (Jon??) responded in a positive way, trying to learn what was wrong.
He was worried about his product, his customers and his own way of thinking.

Not once did he (or any of his customers) pull the "but it sounds good" card.

Hell - "I don't know, but I'm willing to listen and learn" vs "It sounds good" would knock most arguments on their head.

Yep = am drunk -tempted to purchase a DAC-3 while in this state.
Have Oppo from an earlier sip (well before Amir's testing), but Benchmark strikes me as totally honest - both as a DAC and also as a company/environment.

It's a damn shame Amir refuses to meet up with the guys from Schiit for a session working out where the discrepancies are. (sarcasm thing emote???)

Hasn't their cheapest and most popular product had a volume dial that annoys everyone because it's offset from the body for a few years now?

Their excuse has always been "hey, we can't move the volume pot coz of reasons"?

Dudes - change the machine that makes the holes in the body to the left a couple of mm - it doesn't have to be that hard.

 

[Milt]

Just checked back in here after reading the 205 measurements a couple weeks back.
On another forum with a very long Oppo going out of business thread, I referred to Amir's measurements during a thread tangent on how the 205 wasn't that great, overpriced v performance, it takes $5k to get a decent DAC, cheap Chinese crap, etc., etc., etc.

Immediately 2 posters referenced Amir's "suspect measurements", that the Topping DAC sounded like sh!t & the Yggy was a phenomenal DAC, far superior to any D-S DAC, the 205 included.

Never heard any Topping or Schiit, so I couldn't comment but I did mention that John Atkinson's Yggy measurements pretty much echoed Amir's and no one seems to question JA.

I came back here today thinking about asking Amir why he thought his measurements have engendered derision from certain quarters as they seem to pretty much follow what I see in Stereophile & a few other trustworthy sites.
Obviously Schiit adherents aren't going to be pleased and there is considerable bias against Chinese gear and the designers.

So thanks for this thread, Amir.

I'm no slave to measurements alone but distortion is distortion no matter if you like the way it sounds or not.
I love great distortion from a tubed guitar amp but I want my audio system to deliver that distortion undistorted if that makes any sense.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Just checked back in here after reading the 205 measurements a couple weeks back.
On another forum with a very long Oppo going out of business thread, I referred to Amir's measurements during a thread tangent on how the 205 wasn't that great, overpriced v performance, it takes $5k to get a decent DAC, cheap Chinese crap, etc., etc., etc.

Immediately 2 posters referenced Amir's "suspect measurements", that the Topping DAC sounded like sh!t & the Yggy was a phenomenal DAC, far superior to any D-S DAC, the 205 included.

Never heard any Topping or Schiit, so I couldn't comment but I did mention that John Atkinson's Yggy measurements pretty much echoed Amir's and no one seems to question JA.

I came back here today thinking about asking Amir why he thought his measurements have engendered derision from certain quarters as they seem to pretty much follow what I see in Stereophile & a few other trustworthy sites.
Obviously Schiit adherents aren't going to be pleased and there is considerable bias against Chinese gear and the designers.

So thanks for this thread, Amir.

I'm no slave to measurements alone but distortion is distortion no matter if you like the way it sounds or not.
I love great distortion from a tubed guitar amp but I want my audio system to deliver that distortion undistorted if that makes any sense.

I am obviously not @amirm but I can try and answer the Schiit responses:

=> SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLANATION: Psychology!

=> CONSPIRATION THEORY (AND FACT IN AT LEAST ONE EXAMPLE): Money!

I took note of your sentence «I want my audio system to deliver that distortion undistorted if that makes any sense». I think what you wanted to say is that you wanted «intentional distortion». It makes very much sense to do something intentionally with the playback that deviates from neutrality if it is to your preference. Having colouration without knowing the amount or the source of it makes less sense; that’s arbitrary trial and error.

So I guess «intentional» is the key and missing word. Agree?

 

[Milt]

svart-hvitt, Maybe an example will illustrate my meaning.
I want John Lennon's guitar on Revolution to sound the way it did coming out of his guitar amp.
So yes, "intentional" is correct.

 

[Manbeard]

I'm no slave to measurements alone but distortion is distortion no matter if you like the way it sounds or not.
I love great distortion from a tubed guitar amp but I want my audio system to deliver that distortion undistorted if that makes any sense.

Exactly! Leave the distortion to the artists / musicians. I want my system to reproduce what they produced, not add 'color' to it. They already added the color.

 

[Ron Texas]

I found this at CA, FWIW:

Yggydrasil 3/10 very 1990s midfi sound , no toe tapping, no bottom end, no dynamics. I was surprised by this after what I had read about the Yggy. I really wanted it to be the winner as it would save me a lot of money. To be fair I have read this needs to be left on for a long time (1 month in a TAS review) before it reaches its premium sound . It maybe a very good unit went left on for a long time, but I don't want to have to wait for days or weeks if the power goes out at my home to be able to listen to music. The Mukua seems to reach steady state in sound quality only after an hour or so of being turned on.

The author of this comment gave the Mola Mila 9.5/10. I guess he can see the emperor is in his undershorts.