Anyone find it far more rewarding listening to real physical CDs on a CD player, rather than using FLACs? And why do you find this?

[Angsty]

I don't disagree, but you can use a CD player as a transport only, outputting a digital signal via optical/coax so you don't need to use the DAC in the CD player and can take any advantage of an external DAC.



JSmith

I upgraded my 15 year-old CD player with a new $100 external DAC. The CD player was not TOTL when it was introduced and benefited from a cheap +100dB SINAD DAC. I bought the player for its robust mechanism and useful remote, not for its great internal DAC.

 

[Angsty]

Also enjoy constantly finding new music, which is much easier to do on a streaming platform.

My tendency is to use free streaming services to find new music I like and then buy it on CD. I like having a physical disc that I know is mine versus being held captive by recurring payments. That’s just my idiosyncrasy.

 

[Snarfie]

I've spent the last couple of years ripping a lot more of my CDs (around another 1000 classical and jazz CDs) to FLAC. However, I sometimes wonder why I bother.

I've re-discovered in the last months that is it far more enjoyable to just play the original CDs on a CD player, than sending them through a separate DAC.

1. Having a real physical CD, allows the album to be objectified in the mind as a real object. This allows your mind to categorize your music, including where and when you bought the album (thereby associating the music to a specific time and place in your life).

The picture on the album cover also adds to this and helps to remind you of when you first bought the album.

2. Physically putting the CD in a CD player, allows you to pause and focus your intentions on what you are actually going to do - which is: listening seriously to music. Convenience can be a negative thing in this context, as it causes a loss of focus.

Listening to music seriously is like a meditative practice and you should focus on what you are doing.

The CD (or vinyl) format encourages you to focus on what you are doing, while playing on a computer encourages the opposite mentality. The "inconvenience" of the CD (or vinyl) format is also at least a little more similar to the constraints in listening to a live concert, and prevents you from rapidly switching between different genres or albums. Therefore it is more similar to the intentions of the composer, who would expect the audience to wait patiently in a concert hall before the performance.

This is important because music is better listened to distinctly - switching too much between different albums, can be like blurring together paint, creating a muddy mix of colours in your mind.

3. Having and reading the physical liner notes, is one of the great joys of a (at least classical) music collection. Why would anyone not see the loss of them as a huge minus? While the quality of liner notes varies, a lot of them contain excellent and informative writing, which can't be found anywhere else. For example, I particularly enjoy reading the liner notes in Colombia Jazz Albums. While I often enjoy Deutsche Grammophon liner notes for their focus on writing about the particular performance and performers (I can read about the composition in a book, but not about the particular performance).

4. One of the benefits of serious listening is to escape from the distractions of modern life, including the computer screen. A traditional hi-fi system experience can contribute to this, while playing FLACs forcing you back to interacting with a screen.

When I play physical CDs, I find that I'm encouraged to sit down and listen, or even to read a book. On the other hand, with FLACs - I often browse the internet while listening, distracting one's attention.

-------- ------------

Anyone else agree or have other observations, or is this just me?

I"m almost the opposite. Because i ripped all my cd's too Flac i have the convinience to listen to more music than listening to fysical cd's or lp's . More important i can scroll at the same time the internet for much more informatie about them than i find on the cd's or lp's . Also my topping dac is technicaly from a better quality an compatibele with my room correction software which is a game changer for the better. But still i cherish my cd's i stille have them for nostalgic an sentimental reasons .

 

[digicidal]

My tendency is to use free streaming services to find new music I like and then buy it on CD. I like having a physical disc that I know is mine versus being held captive by recurring payments. That’s just my idiosyncrasy.

That's how I treat most of my "browsing sources" whether I'm letting YouTube take me on an adventure, using a streaming service, OTA/SAT radio, or the music channels that come with my cable subscription. I always have my phone or a notepad nearby and jot down anything of interest to grab at my local used store (Zia mostly) or if I can't find it anywhere else... then contributing (begrudgingly) to Lord Bezos' world domination fund.

No matter what, everything gets ripped - but all CDs are kept... and occasionally listened to. Sure they take up space, but not all that much if you invest in a good storage system.

 

[JSmith]

Which for me, right now, is not in any way a virtue.

Totally get your pov on that... I also have shelves of DVD/BD/CD's.

But hey at least we own them... rather than paying to access streams.



JSmith

 

[MrOtto]

CDs will never go away completely and I think they will come back in popularity. With streaming you lease something, but with CDs you own it forever. It's yours and no one can decide or change how you listen to it. And the sound quality is more than good enough and no one can in a blind test differentiate this from a theoretical higher quality format.

 

[Victor Martell]

Not every subjective decision is ant-scientific. I prefer physical media - Vinyl, yes, but mostly CDs, because, well, I am running out of space for Vinyl - I am limiting my Vinyl buys to specific items - but the point is that I prefer physical media. I like to have a finished item in my hand.

- Is not that I believe that Vinyl sounds better than digital or that CDs sound better and/or different than streaming or files. I know the limitations and characteristics.

- I disagree that streaming/files are "all about, and only about the music" and that by preferring physical media I am not - that's a "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy.

- I understand why digital files/streaming is more convenient. I see it many times in this forum in threads like this. Members assume that the convenience of digital streaming is not understood. I KNOW, I just don't mind a little inconvenience.

- I don't hate streaming/files - I have Roon! - Use it to listen while working - very convenient. Or sometimes when I can't find a CD and luckily, I previously ripped it. Or to preview a release before buying... so even a physical media lover has a place for streaming and files in his heart.

But indeed this is a very subjective decision. I prefer the feeling of having the item in my hand. It feels like A WORK. That's it. I don't want, nor I feel like I have to convince you... well, maybe a little bit, so physical media continues to have customers so it doesn't disappear. But definitely I am not evangelizing it as the best and only choice - that would be silly.

The trick is that know that it is a personal preference - and specially for Chrissake, I don't go around saying that my ear tells me that physical media is sonically superior. Now, that would be as silly as supporting MQA!

v

 

[ldarieut]

Ripped my cd collection 15 years ago when I bought my first squeezebox.
space is a premium in Paris appartement, plus those rows of plastic cases never looked good. They have all been boxed in my basement ever since.
If I want to manipulate something, I use vinyl.

 

[Frgirard]

I've spent the last couple of years ripping a lot more of my CDs (around another 1000 classical and jazz CDs) to FLAC. However, I sometimes wonder why I bother.

I've re-discovered in the last months that is it far more enjoyable to just play the original CDs on a CD player, than sending them through a separate DAC.

1. Having a real physical CD, allows the album to be objectified in the mind as a real object. This allows your mind to categorize your music, including where and when you bought the album (thereby associating the music to a specific time and place in your life).

The picture on the album cover also adds to this and helps to remind you of when you first bought the album.

2. Physically putting the CD in a CD player, allows you to pause and focus your intentions on what you are actually going to do - which is: listening seriously to music. Convenience can be a negative thing in this context, as it causes a loss of focus.

Listening to music seriously is like a meditative practice and you should focus on what you are doing.

The CD (or vinyl) format encourages you to focus on what you are doing, while playing on a computer encourages the opposite mentality. The "inconvenience" of the CD (or vinyl) format is also at least a little more similar to the constraints in listening to a live concert, and prevents you from rapidly switching between different genres or albums. Therefore it is more similar to the intentions of the composer, who would expect the audience to wait patiently in a concert hall before the performance.

This is important because music is better listened to distinctly - switching too much between different albums, can be like blurring together paint, creating a muddy mix of colours in your mind.

3. Having and reading the physical liner notes, is one of the great joys of a (at least classical) music collection. Why would anyone not see the loss of them as a huge minus? While the quality of liner notes varies, a lot of them contain excellent and informative writing, which can't be found anywhere else. For example, I particularly enjoy reading the liner notes in Colombia Jazz Albums. While I often enjoy Deutsche Grammophon liner notes for their focus on writing about the particular performance and performers (I can read about the composition in a book, but not about the particular performance).

4. One of the benefits of serious listening is to escape from the distractions of modern life, including the computer screen. A traditional hi-fi system experience can contribute to this, while playing FLACs forcing you back to interacting with a screen.

When I play physical CDs, I find that I'm encouraged to sit down and listen, or even to read a book. On the other hand, with FLACs - I often browse the internet while listening, distracting one's attention.

-------- ------------

Anyone else agree or have other observations, or is this just me?

i disagree.

I don't use a CD player since 2011. I don't listen to a media but a music

 

[nerdstrike]

Reiterating points already made ..

I like using CDs by preference as a means to unplug from doom-scrolling and trying to queue up the next track. I've ripped all but the complete works of Mozart (just because it's 200 CDs of obscurities that the metadata db will screw up), but the technical issues, track finding interfaces and so on mean I don't use that catalogue much on the hifi. Headphone stuff while I'm working, or for exercising, sure, shuffle and playlists galore.

I know in theory it's bit-perfect and searchable and it should be better to curate my own playlists, rather than learn a physical catalogue, but... It seems to devalue individual items. I'll certainly always buy the CD where possible just to have an offline copy that can't be taken away by a licensing spat or cancel culture.

I suspect that it is much easier to project emotions and memory onto a disc in rack than it is to an entry in a database. :/

 

[JSmith]

I don't listen to a media but a music

No ones listens to media files or CD's, they listen to the converted to analogue output... but that's got nothing to do with connection to physical storage media. It's not the disc itself, it's the cover, the artwork, the print on the disc etc. and for many it's about collecting.



JSmith

 

[restorer-john]

No ones listens to media files or CD's, they listen to the converted to analogue output... but that's got nothing to do with connection to physical storage media. It's not the disc itself, it's the cover, the artwork, the print on the disc etc. and for many it's about collecting.

The media is the carrier. The carrier has certain attributes that either endear themselves to people or not.

A box of chocolates presented in a beautiful box, sealed with a ribbon and waxed paper, with all the details of each flavour carefully written has much greater engagement, enjoyment and exclusivity (all subjective) than the same chocolates tossed in a brown paper bag.

I wish other (not you) people would stop deriding physical media. So tiresome and boring. Physical carriers came first, will be there last, and are the only formats with actual intrinsic value. Nobody will buy your SSD full of thousands of tracks, carefully ripped of your favourite music (and you cannot legally sell it in any case) and yet people will pay absolute top dollar for your first release pressing of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon on Quadraphonic LP.

 

[Vict0r]

After upgrading my desk setup I had some hardware (NAD 3020e stereo amp, a Topping E30 DAC, a pair of bookshelf speakers) left over. I used this and an old Sony S370 SACD/Bluray player (with optical out) I had in storage to build a little, dedicated CD nook in my office. Put a nice, comfy chair in front of it and now I'm rediscovering the almost 1000 cd's I bought in the 'nineties/early 2000's. It's so satisfying to hold the booklet, read the lyrics and liner notes and focus on one single album a time.

Also, it's quite liberating to have a little setup that has a single purpose and that I built from random leftover parts. I don't have to obsess over sound quality too much, and can just enjoy it for what it is. Thinking about adding a simple record player as well, since I found quite a bunch of my old vinyl as well.

The setup looks a bit thrown together but that's because it is.

Also, I found this cd rack on a local thrift website for €5. It was used in a biker bar, on the counter. It is SO INCREDIBLY UGLY that I just had to have it. It now hold 50 of my favourite cd's.

 

[simbloke]

Intriguing.
I actually detest music in the background.
If I am listening to it I don't want to be distracted and If I am doing something else I find the music very distracting (if I like it it draws my attention away from what i am doing, if I don't I either don't notice it at all or am irritated).
I have Aspergers though so what is normal for me isn't actually normal I suppose.
Listening to music has been my principle relaxation all my life. Apart from work everything else is background!

When I worked in an office (remember those days?) I would often find the noise of other people distracting, these people would use headphones and listen to music when they didn't want to be distracted. But that just doesn't work for me, especially if the music has words. I tried noise cancelling headphones which seemed to just cancel out background noises like computers and air-con, which didn't bother me much, whereas voice would still come through.

 

[Frgirard]

No ones listens to media files or CD's, they listen to the converted to analogue output... but that's got nothing to do with connection to physical storage media. It's not the disc itself, it's the cover, the artwork, the print on the disc etc. and for many it's about collecting.



JSmith

?

 

[Dialectic]

I'm sympathetic to many of the points made above about musical channel surfing with FLAC, and there's something nice about having the physical disc and the liner notes.

But the principal problem with listening to classical music on a computer is metadata. No one except for the folks at ArkivMusic (who built a business selling CDs out of this problem) has managed to use consistent metadata and sorting for recordings of classical music. Data from the old CDDB was a disastrous mess. Roon is no better, and I ultimately gave up Tidal, in part because of its bad metadata for classical music.

In a seven-month project in 2009-2010, I ripped all of my CDs to FLAC. At the time, to make the project feasible, I sorted ripped CDs by folders (generally in the format /Composer/Work (Performer), but with some variation). I know other classical listeners (some from the old forum that shall not be named) who did the same, and I am still wedded to this folder structure 11 years later.

It would be fun to go back to physical discs, and I still have a lot of physical discs laying around. But at this point in my music collecting, I would be drowning in jewel cases if I did that. I cannot complain about being able to fit ~10,000 CDs/SACDs/hi-res albums onto a disk drive that I can hold.

I do get nightmares about drive failures, but keep one copy upstairs, my main listening drive downstairs, and a separate backup 600 miles away.

 

[restorer-john]

But the principal problem with listening to classical music on a computer is metadata. No one except for the folks at ArkivMusic (who built a business selling CDs out of this problem) has managed to use consistent metadata and sorting for recordings of classical music. Data from the old CDDB was a disastrous mess. Roon is no better, and I ultimately gave up Tidal, in part because of its bad metadata for classical music.

Let's face it, classical music is vrtually impossible to categorize, file, sort and structure in such a way that is logical to anyone other than the person who filed it.

When my father periodically decides to re-categorize and sort his music, it can take a good month or two. It's usually due to the last several hundred CDs or LPs I have gifted him. He will fill the entire upper and lower floors of his house with propped up records and CDs while he sorts them.

I've done the same myself. Rows and rows of discs, leaning against themselves, waiting to go into a drawer or rack in the right order.

And when it's all done. Joy. Absolute joy. Until more discs...

 

[Dialectic]

Let's face it, classical music is vrtually impossible to categorize, file, sort and structure in such a way that is logical to anyone other than the person who filed it.

When my father periodically decides to re-categororize and sort his music, it can take a good month or two. It's usually due to the last several hundred CDs or LPs I have gifted him. He will fill the entire upper and lower floors of his house with propped up records and CDs while he sorts them.

I've done the same myself. Rows and rows of discs, leaning against themselves, waiting to go into a drawer or rack in the right order.

And when it's all done. Joy. Absolute joy. Until more discs...

I do it alpha by composer, except for discs that are compilations by a particular performer, conductor, ensemble etc. If it's intsrumentalists, then it goes in "/Instrumentalists/[Instrument]/[Performer last name, Performer first initial]/[Disc title]". Same for conductors, ensembles, and so forth.

It does get difficult remembering which recordings I have of particular pieces because some of those recordings might be in the folder for the composer while some will, for instance, be in the folder for the Complete Recordings of Herbert von Karajan.

But, with these kinds of first-world problems, I manage.

The problem extends even to buying CDs online. I found it outrageously difficult to find classical discs on Amazon. ArkivMusic, started by the former manager of the classical section at the old Tower Records in NYC, enables finding recordings by composer, piece, performer, ensemble, etc.

ArkivMusic was purchased by Steinway a few years ago. I happened to be at the Steinway factory in New York recently and, on pulling into the parking lot, saw that the ArkivMusic founder had been given a named parking space. Very well-deserved in my opinion.

 

[richard12511]

Yes and I find it also relates to attention on the music, having a set intention to listen to the album, and a greater degree of inability to easily change after making the decision.

To a smaller extent, I guess it's like going to the cinema, instead of watching a film on the television at home (ignoring the difference of visual experience). When you go to the cinema, you are more committed to the film, and can't as easily change your mind, compared to channel flicking at home.

This is partly why I find it more rewarding to listen on CD than through a computer. The extra minute of effort in finding a CD, deciding to listen to it, and inserting it into the player, makes you more committed to listening to it, and you can't change your mind as easily after making the commitment to listen to that particular CD. So I find that I am doing less musical "channel hopping" compared to with FLACs.

I don't own any CDs or even a CD player, but I can see the appeal, and see where it could make one more committed. With the exception of a few multichannel DSD files, all of my music is consumed via streaming services, and I do a lot of "channel hopping".

 

[restorer-john]

But, with these kinds of first-world problems, I manage.

I have introduced that term to my father. He's 88. "First world problems". He smiles, and I can see he still knows more than I can imagine.