Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor)

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Ugghhh see this is what I think was the issue they are 86db efficient and the 590 are 92db efficient I'm at 3 meters back from the surround speakers

So I had to run the channel trims on the AVM 60 up like 7 to 8 units higher for the 530 maybe a little more to level match them to 75db with the 590 mains

Top that off those rears were on the PVA 7 which with all channels driven is not putting out much juice yeeeaaahhh I'd say it's probably safe to say I clipped them and blew the tweeter oh well not my first goof up sure it won't be my last

Napkin math inc:

According to Anthem, the PVA 7 has ~100W @ 8Ω per channel - all channels driven -.

If you calibrated to 75dB, add +25dB headroom for peaks = 100dB max SPL.
86dB -> 92dB (sensitivity match) = 4W (while you other speakers get 1W).
IIRC you lose some 3-4dB per doubling of distance in a room, lets make that a simple -6dB for 3m distance.

So you are back to 86dB (at already 4 watts, mind you) but you want 100dB, and amp power doubles per 3dB:
101dB would equal to 128W of power.

Mmh it's possible you overtaxed the amp but that would depend how it would re-route power from the other channels that need 6dB less output due to higher sensitivity.

I'm sure some other member could calculate that much more precisely.

 

[danzilla31]

Napkin math inc:

According to Anthem, the PVA 7 has ~100W @ 8Ω per channel - all channels driven -.

If you calibrated to 75dB, add +25dB headroom for peaks = 100dB max SPL.
86dB -> 92dB (sensitivity match) = 4W (while you other speakers get 1W).
IIRC you lose some 3-4dB per doubling of distance in a room, lets make that a simple -6dB for 3m distance.

So you are back to 86dB (at already 4 watts, mind you) but you want 100dB, and amp power doubles per 3dB:
101dB would equal to 128W of power.

Mmh it's possible you overtaxed the amp but that would depend how it would re-route power from the other channels that need 6dB less output due to higher sensitivity.

I'm sure some other member could calculate that much more precisely.

Your right it's a possible it sounds like I was on the line very close anyway. After calibration I kept wanting to turn the volume up because I couldn't get the surrounds to sound balanced with the mains

So it's a possibility I clipped it

 

[danzilla31]

Napkin math inc:

According to Anthem, the PVA 7 has ~100W @ 8Ω per channel - all channels driven -.

If you calibrated to 75dB, add +25dB headroom for peaks = 100dB max SPL.
86dB -> 92dB (sensitivity match) = 4W (while you other speakers get 1W).
IIRC you lose some 3-4dB per doubling of distance in a room, lets make that a simple -6dB for 3m distance.

So you are back to 86dB (at already 4 watts, mind you) but you want 100dB, and amp power doubles per 3dB:
101dB would equal to 128W of power.

Mmh it's possible you overtaxed the amp but that would depend how it would re-route power from the other channels that need 6dB less output due to higher sensitivity.

I'm sure some other member could calculate that much more precisely.

This is why what Amir finds out about the Anthem is important to me. If the AVM 60 is so far off of the specs they claimed and it turns out it wasn't a faulty unit that means I may not be able to trust those #'s tho

So it's interesting how this will play out

 

[ctakim]

I think it is important to recognize that a less than optimally reviewed device can still be perfectly adequate for your use and needs. Clipping issue aside, if with room correction, you are happy with your AVM-60 based on personal use I would try not to get too bothered by the review report. I think these reviews are more valuable for people like me who are in the market for a new AV processor but have not yet pulled the trigger and for keeping these companies generally honest in their unit design. For example, my speakers are notorious for coloration and deviating from the flat line norm in purposefully designed ways. I have desktop LS3/5a speakers and Magnepan 1.6's in my main listening area. I seriously doubt that Amir is a big fan of either but they function exceedingly well for me in how I use them. I am kind of getting back into hifi-audio and right now and ASR has been hugely helpful in this regard. Now for my next pair of speakers, though I will be studying Amir's plots and graphs closely, for sure!!!!

 

[Chrispy]

Keep in mind the general content to a surround speaker is also at a lower level than the mains so the ACD thing really doesn't match up in this situation....now if you use it in an all-ch stereo mode that would be different, perhaps different with some multich music mixes, too.

 

[danzilla31]

Keep in mind the general content to a surround speaker is also at a lower level than the mains so the ACD thing really doesn't match up in this situation....now if you use it in an all-ch stereo mode that would be different, perhaps different with some multich music mixes, too.

I think that's where it happened if that's what caused it I do a lot of all channel and multi channel music listening. If that is what did happen as you guys have pointed out other things could be a factor as well

 

[Chrispy]

I think that's where it happened if that's what caused it I do a lot of all channel and multi channel music listening. If that is what did happen as you guys have pointed out other things could be a factor as well

Could also be the 530 was defective since the other survived....

 

[danzilla31]

I think it is important to recognize that a less than optimally reviewed device can still be perfectly adequate for your use and needs. Clipping issue aside, if with room correction, you are happy with your AVM-60 based on personal use I would try not to get too bothered by the review report. I think these reviews are more valuable for people like me who are in the market for a new AV processor but have not yet pulled the trigger and for keeping these companies generally honest in their unit design. For example, my speakers are notorious for coloration and deviating from the flat line norm in purposefully designed ways. I have desktop LS3/5a speakers and Magnepan 1.6's in my main listening area. I seriously doubt that Amir is a big fan of either but they function exceedingly well for me in how I use them. I am kind of getting back into hifi-audio and right now and ASR has been hugely helpful in this regard. Now for my next pair of speakers, though I will be studying Amir's plots and graphs closely, for sure!!!!

Yeah I'm a lot more calmed down after talking to you guys Amir's review had me crapping myself to be honest. I've always wanted him to review it but I've always been scared of him reviewing you know?

 

[danzilla31]

Could also be the 530 was defective since the other survived....

Yeah I was thinking that too. I should've just ordered another one it would've kept me from going down the RBH rabbit hole

 

[Chrispy]

Yeah I was thinking that too. I should've just ordered another one it would've kept me from going down the RBH rabbit hole

Curious, did you contact JBL with this for replacement under warranty?

ps generally I'd just say no to all-ch stereo mode! Maybe limiting master volume level in your avp settings

 

[danzilla31]

Curious, did you contact JBL with this for replacement under warranty?

ps generally I'd just say no to all-ch stereo mode! Maybe limiting master volume level in your avp settings

When I wall mounted them I had to screw into the wood voiding the warranty they were on sale for 150 each so I'm not too worried about it I like trying different stuff so it was a good exscuse to try something new

You are absolutely right but I couldn't on multi channel listening I just couldn't help myself!

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Keep in mind the general content to a surround speaker is also at a lower level than the mains so the ACD thing really doesn't match up in this situation.....

Careful with that assumption.

A Quick demonstration of Transformers I's initial fight. Didn't scan the whole movie, so it might not be the peak.

Rear levels aren't that much lower and I have seen other movies in which the rears actually peaked higher than the fronts. It's very mix dependent.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Movies won´t tax all channels continuosly other than very short times and we can see there is good amount of headroom for peak power in receivers per Amirms and Genes measurements. You also have one or multiple subwoofers with powerfull amps so the speakers aren´t ran as full range. Gene and few others has talked about the ACD tests how they don´t really apply to real world program material. Some brands has protection circuit limiting the power output when sine wawe is ran continuosly on all channels long time. Then people at forums come barking how poor power supply the said product has, while failing to understand what is going on. Still no one has any issues running the unit to reference level with moderately efficient speakers. No reports of sound hardening up like with cheap receivers when pushed loud. You can see what Gene suggest regarding the FTC:

The average consumer may be tempted to look for the two-channel rating system to simply apply to all channels, resulting in an ACD (All Channels Driven) power rating. While this is understandable, it’s unlikely you’ll ever need to drive all channels at full range simultaneously in real world conditions. Rear channels in a surround format generally only receive a fraction of the information or range of the critical front and center channels. As Audioholic’s founder Gene DellaSala has pointed out:

“It's particularly impractical to rate ACD, especially in products with more than 7 channels of internal amplification because they will often exceed the available power from your wall outlet even if they were capable of delivering it.”

In the interest of a fair multi-channel amplifier rating system, Audioholics suggests a rating system that emphasizes the critical front and center three channels or LCR, as explained by Gene.

“In addition to a 2CH driven, full bandwidth rating, we'd like to take the power spec one step further by proposing an additional power rating as follows for AV receivers:

3CH driven, full power bandwidth, 8 ohms, at specified % THD+N (max 0.1% THD+N) with remaining channels driven at 1/8th power.

 

[peng]

Careful with that assumption.

Rear levels aren't that much lower and I have seen other movies in which the rears actually peaked higher than the fronts. It's very mix dependent.

I am sure you are right, but I still won't be concerned as much for the surrounds because its how long such peaks last that would matter more. Also, I bet most users have less capable (power handling, max dB etc.) speakers for those channels anyway so there is a different point of diminishing return too.

 

[Chrispy]

Careful with that assumption.

View attachment 112710
A Quick demonstration of Transformers I's initial fight. Didn't scan the whole movie, so it might not be the peak.

Rear levels aren't that much lower and I have seen other movies in which the rears actually peaked higher than the fronts. It's very mix dependent.

That's why I said generally I still wouldn't worry about that as its generally explosions and sfx where it's not critical. I'd worry more about the multich stereo modes with loud music.

 

[walt99]

Assuming Anthem is following this thread, I would like them to know that if they don’t respond soon to this I will be returning my AVM70 to crutchfield before the 30 day trial is up. Maybe the only way to get their attention if they start seeing people returning their units.

I do a lot of 2 ch listening so this is very important to me personally.
Never been a big Denon fan but right now they are looking like the best alternative (x8500 or A-110)

 

[Chrispy]

Assuming Anthem is following this thread, I would like them to know that if they don’t respond soon to this I will be returning my AVM70 to crutchfield before the 30 day trial is up. Maybe the only way to get their attention if they start seeing people returning their units.

I do a lot of 2 ch listening so this is very important to me personally.
Never been a big Denon fan but right now they are looking like the best alternative (x8500 or A-110)

On what basis would you return it other than maybe "I might not like the spec" ? Do the measurements contradict the stated spec from Anthem? Does it sound bad?

 

[StefaanE]

On what basis would you return it other than maybe "I might not like the spec" ? Do the measurements contradict the stated spec from Anthem? Does it sound bad?

Maybe it’s a question of trust? Customers who are lead to believe they get technical excellence feel betrayed even if the measurements match the spec, and the device has no audible flaws. What the tests of AVRs have shown is that these devices struggle to produce measurements that match a $9 dongle, and that doesn’t feel good.
Absent trust, any real or perceived flaw in the sound will make people doubt their purchase. Look at the storm of protests when a Topping headphone amp was suspected of frying a headphone — there were only a few reports, and it wasn’t clear the amp was to blame, but lots of people threatened to get a Schiit amp instead.

 

[walt99]

On what basis would you return it other than maybe "I might not like the spec" ? Do the measurements contradict the stated spec from Anthem? Does it sound bad?

Based on I feel betrayed and I vote with my $$$. This is big 'investment' for me and I don't like what I see here. One of things that is really crappy IMO is that they appear to want to make the unit look 'high end' with all the XLR outputs, but the outputs aren't really balanced at all, they just added some amps to the connector board to drive them which actually makes things worse from the single ended inputs, are you kidding me!!!

 

[Chrispy]

I've never understood the fascination with Anthem to begin with for a pre-pro or avr....