Aftermarket power cable question?

[sresener]

I wanted to start off with. My theory or opinions could be completely wrong with what I'm saying. I'm a carpenter not a scientist and if anyone can set me straight I thought it would be here.

So I have been using my basic cables that came with my equipment, all I did was make sure everything had a ferrite core on it and be adequate gauge.

I have a very limited knowledge of electric and magnetic fields and I'm hoping somthing can decipher what I'm seeing.

I wanted new cables and my primary reason was for looks, so with a bit of research I narrowed it down to Pangea, Double shielded good, adequate gauge good and looks decent at a reasonable price (to me)
So I purchased 4 ac 9 se mkII's and one ac14 se mkII's.

My tests are pretty simple I have one sensitive really cheap amp that if I run a cheap cable over it I usually can hear somthing in my speaker. Okay It passed that test.

Then I run my voltage detector (passed that test)

Then I run my e-field tester (it did well there to)

Then while pulling current through the cables I run a simple h-field which I think is the same as m-field (magnetic), If im wrong I hope it is explained to me...………….. WHAT!!!!!! I'm getting readings and its starting to warn me about the levels. Now I thought that tester may was broken because I could not find another power cord in my house that gives me this or any readings.

Again I could be wrong but I always thought magnetic fields were easy to eliminate just by running wires parallel (which all cords basically do) So did Pangea with there pseudo science fix one problem with crazy shielding but introduce another issue?
I was also under the impression that a magnetic field (h-field) was considerably worse than a e-field?

 

[Not Insane]

Wow! I just use 12 or 16 gauge lamp chord, depending on the run length.

But then, I also wear hearing aids.

 

[sresener]

The #1 Reason I purchased them was for looks.

But I also hoped they wouldn't make things worse. (if what I am seeing is a actual issue)

 

[Not Insane]

The #1 Reason I purchased them was for looks.

But I also hoped they wouldn't make things worse. (if what I am seeing is a actual issue)

Yeah, I saw that. I think appearance is probably the most "justifiable" reason for getting more expensive cables. And looks matter. It's all part of the package.

 

[Speedskater]

Again I could be wrong but I always thought magnetic fields were easy to eliminate just by running wires parallel (which all cords basically do)

The field will drop to about 1% at 10 times the distance between the conductors.
Are the connectors correctly wired? a Neutral/Safety Ground swap will mean that the Neutral current is flowing thru the shield and the field will be high.

 

[sresener]

I took great care when I wired the two dedicated 20 amp 10/2 wired outlets.
I have a tester that I use to go behind the electricians. (they have a bad habit of letting there unqualified helpers do work they shouldn't be) it instantly tells me a few things and one is if the ground is right and if the hot and neutral are reversed. You would be shocked how many times a "helper" gets the live and neutral backwards. And even more shocked how they do not know how to tighten a marrette properly

Also Every other cable plugged into these same outlets do not emit any magnetic (h-field) only the Pangea cables.

After reading your question I wondered if cable itself has the neutral and ground connected and nope there not.

 

[sresener]

Well it looks like I figured it out. And im not sure if its a good thing or not.
When I tested for emf my whole system was plugged in to my two power conditioners.
The two sources were the incredibly cheap power brick (powering a nuc) and my mytek Manhattan, each were plugged into each power conditioner separately, once removed from the system the magnetic interference went away.
So is it possible to back feed from a component and go through a power conditioner, it even effected the main power supply to the power conditioners. The conditioners are Nuprime AC4's.
I have a panama 5400m, I'm going to see if that passes the emf to its other outlets (and to its source outlet)
The ac4 has a separate outlet for high power and low power items you would hope there would be some isolation.

This never showed up before as I was not using the nuc (computer), the ac4's and I used a different dac/pre

 

[Speedskater]

Some power conditioners/noise filters dump the noise currents into the Safety Ground/Protective Earth conductor. So the field from this noise current may or may not cancel.

 

[sresener]

Well one of the panamax's features (they claim) is it isolates all banks. So we will see what it does.

I understand having to send it back to the earth ground. But passing it to the other bank seems to defeat the purpose of having a separate plug for sensitive source components.

 

[Speedskater]

I understand having to send it back to the earth ground.

The Planet Earth ground has nothing to do with it. All AC power noise currents will go back to their voltage source. Their voltage source is the Neutral in the main breaker box. The noise currents will use the available paths back to that Neutral.

 

[sresener]

Thank goodness its cold (-49f with windchill) and I have nothing better to do, as I just wasted my time and the source was all the power supplies in all my equipment.
But one thing I do know about my new power cables (besides looking pretty) I can not hear any difference in sound quality. Maybe I should throw them outside to freeze them. (im kidding)

But I have another question in a whole other direction Ill throw it out here first.
I have noticed manufactures rate there snr on there amplifiers differently.
examples @1w @10w @full power ect ect.
Do they rate it at a higher output to simply inflate the number for marketing?

 

[Deacon Blues]

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thre...ey-really-matter.888777/page-18#post-22987873

I feel like the only sane one in the room! People actually believe this marketing garbage.

I mean isn't a conditioner - even the cheapest kinds - all one needs? It should be built into your amplifier - assuming it's a decent design.

 

[sresener]

I completely agree.
I never did expect any improvement in sound and primarily these were purchased for looks. This approach also help me "Negotiate" the price of the cables down.
A funny story
I went to a local hi-fi shop and he tried to sell me some nordost cables. After some long winded sales pitch on how he can not listen to certain cables. I asked if nordost had any sort of literature backing his claims, he actually said you can not measure what there cables do its just a feeling you experience. I replied I think the only feeling I would experience, is my wallet being lightened. I never went back there again .

 

[Deacon Blues]

I just use standard Belden RCA's and stock Power cables through a surge protector. although, there is a bit of mains noise - I may look into a realistic conditioner. This is only an issue if it's played SUPER loud though.

 

[sresener]

Last winter, I was bored so for a experiment I purchased some very expensive audioquest rca cables from amazon.
I had a class d amp that if any interconnects went near its power supply it would introduce a hum into the system.
The audio quest were considerably worse for introducing this hum, compared to my basic bluejeans interconnects.
Once the cables were routed properly I could not hear any difference, my experiment was over and the cables were returned.

 

[DonH56]

I just use standard Belden RCA's and stock Power cables through a surge protector. although, there is a bit of mains noise - I may look into a realistic conditioner. This is only an issue if it's played SUPER loud though.

This is not directed at you specifically, but I see "mains noise" thrown about all the time on audio fora and it is never clear exactly what folk mean by that. The power supply in any decent component provides gobs of isolation from noise on the incoming line, and then the circuits after the power supply and inside the box have additional power supply rejection (again, very, very high, at least at for low-frequency noise, and filtering and shielding provides high-frequency rejection). I think most people do not understand the power path and just how much isolation from the wall plug there is. Most of the time I drill down into what they describe as "mains noise" they are talking about hum or noise from the safety ground connection and not really noise on the power lines themselves. That is a separate issue that a power conditioner may or may not correct. Sometimes it just provides a closer ground tie among components, or inserts a little extra resistance to reduce the impact of a ground loop.

Power line conditioners are another thing that generate "day and night differences my wife heard from the kitchen" reviews that I strongly suspect would fail any sort of controlled test.

/rant - Don

 

[Wes]

most people do not understand what a transformer does

 

[Koeitje]

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thre...ey-really-matter.888777/page-18#post-22987873

I feel like the only sane one in the room! People actually believe this marketing garbage.

I mean isn't a conditioner - even the cheapest kinds - all one needs? It should be built into your amplifier - assuming it's a decent design.

Holy shit, an entire thread filled with people that have gear with badly designed power supplies. Somebody is even talking about plugs getting too hot and that power cables have more effect on 600W amplifiers. I don't know, but a bog standard C13 plug cable is at least 0.75mm2 which is good for a bit over 1300 Watts...and 1.5mm2 barely costs anything more. My ultra cheap power strip is rated at 3600W...

These guys must be running PA systems in their home or something...

 

[Deacon Blues]

This is not directed at you specifically, but I see "mains noise" thrown about all the time on audio fora and it is never clear exactly what folk mean by that. The power supply in any decent component provides gobs of isolation from noise on the incoming line, and then the circuits after the power supply and inside the box have additional power supply rejection (again, very, very high, at least at for low-frequency noise, and filtering and shielding provides high-frequency rejection). I think most people do not understand the power path and just how much isolation from the wall plug there is. Most of the time I drill down into what they describe as "mains noise" they are talking about hum or noise from the safety ground connection and not really noise on the power lines themselves. That is a separate issue that a power conditioner may or may not correct. Sometimes it just provides a closer ground tie among components, or inserts a little extra resistance to reduce the impact of a ground loop.

Power line conditioners are another thing that generate "day and night differences my wife heard from the kitchen" reviews that I strongly suspect would fail any sort of controlled test.

/rant - Don

You're right - I meant my phono stage - the Pluto generates a bit of power line noise, but it's barely audible. And only when I turn it way up. I know some hiss is normal with any component.

Question for all - I am getting massive feedback on my TT. It turns into a loud HOWL- I think its the speakers bleeding back into the cartridge. It's already wall mounted above the speakers. But I think the speakers are still vibrating the wall, thus back to the cart.

I used sorbothane feet on the speakers, and TT - and still does it - I would say around "half way" (loud) on my amp. (not sure the db range). Enough to bother the neighbor. any ideas on how to decouple the TT from vibrations even further? I was thinking about a sorbothane slab under the TT then a butcher block.

I also may run the wall warts through a SMSL linear power supply - assuming that will help.

 

[DonH56]

Sorbothane may not help (wrong resonant frequency). In the primordial past I used mattress springs to cure problems with floor vibrations (mainly grandmother's footfalls when she stomped in to tell me to turn it down). Ugly until I built a box around them but very effective. You might look for some spring-type isolation feet (or make your own).

If you put your hand on the TT base and hold it does it help or change anything? If it is through the air it will be harder to isolate.