Advice on new setup

[thomasriise]

Hi all,

Need advice and opinions on my coming setup in my living room, around 5x8 meters.
No need for tv sound, just plain old stereo.
I have 600 LPs.
Music streaming service: Apple Music.

Current setup:

• Technics 1210 M3D Turntable
• Pro-Ject Phono Box
• Sonos Amp (gen. 3)
• Dali 606 floorstanding speakers

The Sonos Amp is good (it supports Apple Music) and powerful, but I miss a bit more detail in the sound.
I have tried Wiim Amp (not pro), which sounded really great - but that one was not powerful enough for my speakers (Dali 606).
Also have an Class AB AMC XIA 50 amp, this one is also not powerful enough to handle the speakers, and it distorts at high volume.

My thoughts on a new setup:

Setup 1:

• Technics 1210 M3D
• Pro-Ject Phono Box
• Wiim Pro Plus
• Buckeye Hypex 502 or 252 // Nord Hypex 502 or 252

Setup 2:

• Technics 1210 M3D
• Pro-Ject Phono Box
• Wiim Pro Plus
• 2x Fosi v3 Mono

Or another pre-amp that supports Apple Music, would be really nice. Any ideas / feedback?
Airplay 2 is a must-have.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi,
Your speakers are pretty sensitive - 92dB - and won't need all that much power, you said that the Sonos was enough. Your room is large (by UK standards!) but how far do you sit from the speakers and how loud do you listen?

What's the issue that you'd like to fix?

There is nothing wrong with the Sonos Amp, and changing the amplifier cannot add detail to your sound: that's the source or your speakers or the interaction of your speakers in your room.

Ideally, you should look at adjusting your speakers in some way: align then differently (you may already know that Dali recommend that you just face them straight ahead, no toe in or out. Worth experimenting with). Can you rearrange any aspect of your room that might affect reflections?

After that, it is probably time to consider room correction / DSP / EQ (Dali's are notoriously bright) or even a speaker upgrade.
I wouldn't look to change your amp - look at other things first.

WiiM products have great specifications, but don't offer Airplay 2 now. However, you could keep your Sonos Amp (with Airplay) and add one of the WiiM preamp/streamers - the WiiM Pro Plus or WiiM Ultra have good analogue inputs so can accommodate your turntable - that way you keep the powerful Amp and add Room Correction / PEQ.

 

[thomasriise]

Thank you Jeremy! I have now adjusted the speakers slightly and it seems the room is more filled with sound now. I also turned off loudness in the sonos preferences, which made the sound a little more clear.
I tested with my wiim amp, xia 50 and the sonos amp, and I still think, that the "fidelity" was highest on the wiim amp, but that device is not powerful enough on higher volumes.
I think adding a better dac than the one on the sonos, can give my Dali's some more detail.
The Wiim Pro Plus does support airplay.

I think what I want to achieve, and what I am asking: which new amp combined with the wiim pro plus would you recommend together with my current speaker, that also have room for a speaker opgrade down the road... ?

 

[JeremyFife]

No worries, any of the five amp options you have already selected would be great.
Buckeye seems to have the edge for build quality, but I don't have personal experience of that.

I would like to have an opinion for balanced inputs, for future upgrades, so either both RCA and balanced input, or use RCA to Balanced cables (plenty of threads on inexpensive cable to do that).

Pick based on your budget. Be happy.

 

[ZolaIII]

How about Yamaha's new R-N (800A, 1000A, 2000A) line if that fits you aesthetically and financially? Other than that a better fono preamp, sub's the separate DSP like something from Mini DSP.

 

[thomasriise]

No worries, any of the five amp options you have already selected would be great.
Buckeye seems to have the edge for build quality, but I don't have personal experience of that.

I would like to have an opinion for balanced inputs, for future upgrades, so either both RCA and balanced input, or use RCA to Balanced cables (plenty of threads on inexpensive cable to do that).

Pick based on your budget. Be happy.

I am also considering two paths:
- one for turntable (100% analog)
- one for streaming
- They should end up in the same amp
- analog path, should have a manual volume knob
- avoid analog to digital and bach again

Analog path:
Turntable -> Pro-Ject Phono Box -> Schiit SYS Passive Preamp -> RCA Switch -> Amplifier
- The Schiit SYS gives me a dedicated volume control for vinyl, so I can adjust the vinyl’s output independently before it reaches the amp.

"Digital" path:
Wiim Pro Plus -> RCA Switch -> Amplifier
- I Connect the Wiim directly to the RCA switch, and use the Wiim Pro Plus’s built-in volume control for streaming / app.

The RCA switch allows me to toggle between vinyl and streaming sources, sending the selected signal to the Amp.
- RCA could be autosensing, turning on the amp

The RCA switch could also be a small mixer with volume knob + 12v trigger in/out.

 

[JeremyFife]

Genuinely, I'd rethink that.
There is no 'magic' in an all analogue path. Any sonic (actual sound quality vs preference/aesthetics) benefits from vinyl come from the rare occasions where you get a better master on vinyl. The ability to apply DSP/PEQ to your analogue source far (far!) outweighs anything else.

One reason for specifying a WiiM Pro Plus is that the ADC is good. Route your phono stage into the WiiM and you get all the benefits of DSP.

Your proposal for an RCA switch (basically an old school pre-amp feature, even if it is passive) means you have a physical volume control in the system, which isn't a bad idea. It's not really necessary though and why would you need a Schiit SYS and a RCA switch? Don't they both do the same?

Your system, your choice. I'd route analogue and digital into the WiiM => Power Amp, and get used to turning on the WiiM (and check volume setting) before turning on the Amp.

 

[thomasriise]

Genuinely, I'd rethink that.
There is no 'magic' in an all analogue path. Any sonic (actual sound quality vs preference/aesthetics) benefits from vinyl come from the rare occasions where you get a better master on vinyl. The ability to apply DSP/PEQ to your analogue source far (far!) outweighs anything else.

One reason for specifying a WiiM Pro Plus is that the ADC is good. Route your phono stage into the WiiM and you get all the benefits of DSP.

Your proposal for an RCA switch (basically an old school pre-amp feature, even if it is passive) means you have a physical volume control in the system, which isn't a bad idea. It's not really necessary though and why would you need a Schiit SYS and a RCA switch? Don't they both do the same?

Your system, your choice. I'd route analogue and digital into the WiiM => Power Amp, and get used to turning on the WiiM (and check volume setting) before turning on the Amp.

Yes, Your suggestion is ofc. my first choice. No harm done in routing the turntable into the wiim pro plus. The wiim pro plus has + / - buttons, so there we have the volume control for the turntable (and streaming). the wiim also senses which input is playing, so no input switch is needed. Also, as you say, the line-in on the wiim pro plus has it's own EQ, so I can customize the turntable sound to my liking. And this setup is very simple, only two units.

Which amp, would you then recommend of these ones:
Buckeye 252
Buckeye 502
2xFosi V3 Mono
2xAiyima A70 Mono
Behringer A800

Or anything you would recommend especially (audiophonics, Nord, Apollon etc..) ?

Thank you again @JeremyFife

 

[ZolaIII]

If you want stereo power amplifier with really good analogue unbalanced RCA inputs as a separate it's worth looking for second hand as less used as possible or old stock Yamaha A-S 700 and pair it with Mini DSP Flex/HT with or without streamer I/O and so on. If you are into vinyl seriously for whatever reasons take a look at Cambridge Audio preamps. I would reconsider sub's, encourage; optimal placement, eventual limited acoustic treatment and DSP correction.

 

[JeremyFife]

Yes, Your suggestion is ofc. my first choice. No harm done in routing the turntable into the wiim pro plus. The wiim pro plus has + / - buttons, so there we have the volume control for the turntable (and streaming). the wiim also senses which input is playing, so no input switch is needed. Also, as you say, the line-in on the wiim pro plus has it's own EQ, so I can customize the turntable sound to my liking. And this setup is very simple, only two units.

Which amp, would you then recommend of these ones:
Buckeye 252
Buckeye 502
2xFosi V3 Mono
2xAiyima A70 Mono
Behringer A800

Or anything you would recommend especially (audiophonics, Nord, Apollon etc..) ?

Thank you again @JeremyFife

Completely depends on your budget, these are all good. Personally I'd be tempted by the Buckeye 252 and couldn't see a reason to choose a different provide of Hypex amps, apart from aesthetics and budget which are entirely your call.

I'd also seriously consider what @ZolaIII is saying - to make sure you cover all your options

 

[Spkrdctr]

I would get the highest powered Buckeye you can afford. You never have to apologize to yourself for buying extra power. Other than that I think you have good ideas with the Wiim. I have zero experience with Wiim products but people on ASR seem to really like them. Same for Buckeye. Good luck and have fun!