Advice on AVR - how would you spend your money?

[DeepCuttaBeats]

Since you mentioned 90% music, I would get Marantz over Denon every time, especially if your speakers are on the bright side. Denon is known to have a full bodied, warmer sound. When it comes to movies, Denon can be more engaging and exciting, but does not sound as good for 2 channel music listening. The Denons I tried in the past sounded more digital, and less natural, when playing my favorite CDs.

The Marantz Cinema 50 supports DIRAC room correction which can allow you get the Marantz to sound as exciting, or rolled off, as you want for your tastes when movie watching. I use DIRAC on my Onkyo RZ-50 in my home theater it is simply amazing, especially once you painstakingly dial it in to align with your taste. The great thing about DIRAC is that you can keep learning more about your setup and preferences, and continue to adjust your target curves to get to your final sound. The tweaking of the curves and tinkering is a fun/rewarding aspect also.

 

[Vacceo]

Since you mentioned 90% music, I would get Marantz over Denon every time, especially if your speakers are on the bright side. Denon is known to have a full bodied, warmer sound. When it comes to movies, Denon can be more engaging and exciting, but does not sound as good for 2 channel music listening. The Denons I tried in the past sounded more digital, and less natural, when playing my favorite CDs.

The Marantz Cinema 50 supports DIRAC room correction which can allow you get the Marantz to sound as exciting, or rolled off, as you want for your tastes when movie watching. I use DIRAC on my Onkyo RZ-50 in my home theater it is simply amazing, especially once you painstakingly dial it in to align with your taste. The great thing about DIRAC is that you can keep learning more about your setup and preferences, and continue to adjust your target curves to get to your final sound. The tweaking of the curves and tinkering is a fun/rewarding aspect also.

Data from current models show that the coloration is not there. Models such as the Cinema 40 or the older Denon X3600H present a quite clean and unchanged signal. In the case of Denon, the issues are not on the DAC and amp, but on elements such as the HDMI or the connections.

On the tunning capabilities with EQ, being it Dirac or Adyssey (more limited, but also perfectly functional), I agree.

 

[jjaskuna]

Hi all,

I am hoping you will be able to give me your thoughts on how you would spend your money on an AVR as it seems quite difficult to choose given some of the current prices.

For the better part of a decade I have been running a Cambridge audio DacMagic, Yamaha A-S700 Stereo Amp and Monitor Audio Bronze bookshelf speakers. Usage was 90% music and 10 movies. I recently moved house and now (finally) have more space and installed an LG Evo C3 77" TV and find myself craving more punch from my audio system...

I got a couple of good deals over the last few months and purchased some Monitor Audio Silver 300 7G floor standers (massive upgrade for the system) and then an SVS SB-3000 (another massive upgrade) to counter the bright MAs (and giving some home theater grunt). My upgrade path will a centre channel, rears and then atmos - no more than that as my room is only wired for that setup and I'm not going to start faffing around with more cables. Before I can purchase more speakers I need to replace the stereo amp....

Denon AVR-X3800H (£899) / Marantz Cinema 60 (£999)
Denon AVC-X4800H (£1449) / Marantz Cinema 50 (£1299) / Denon AVC-X6700 (£1399)
Marantz Cinema 40 (£1899) / Marantz Cinema 70 (£679) + IOTAVX AVXP1 Power Amp (£1188) / Marantz SR8015 (£1599)

The Denon AVR-X3800H didn't get the recommended rating so would be worth skipping at retail price but the current offers seem to make it tempting to pick up. Spending a little extra I think the battle is between the clearance Denon AVC-X6700 and the Denon AVC-X4800H and I'm leaning towards the Denon AVC-X6700 for the more powerful amp. I think the Marantz Cinema 40 is expensive for what it offers but Marantz SR8015 at it's price seems convincing but again perhaps not as much as the Denon AVC-X6700. The only value in the Marantz Cinema 70 + power amp combo is that they are separate units and would allow me to upgrade the receiver again in the future with minimal expense.

Ultimately I have no idea which to choose. If it were your money, which would you buy?

Personally, I would recommend separates. I have replaced too many AVRs for hdmi versions. I am very happy with my Marantz separate.

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

Since you mentioned 90% music, I would get Marantz over Denon every time, especially if your speakers are on the bright side. Denon is known to have a full bodied, warmer sound. When it comes to movies, Denon can be more engaging and exciting, but does not sound as good for 2 channel music listening. The Denons I tried in the past sounded more digital, and less natural, when playing my favorite CDs.

The Marantz Cinema 50 supports DIRAC room correction which can allow you get the Marantz to sound as exciting, or rolled off, as you want for your tastes when movie watching. I use DIRAC on my Onkyo RZ-50 in my home theater it is simply amazing, especially once you painstakingly dial it in to align with your taste. The great thing about DIRAC is that you can keep learning more about your setup and preferences, and continue to adjust your target curves to get to your final sound. The tweaking of the curves and tinkering is a fun/rewarding aspect also.

I meant to say "Marantz is known to have a full bodied, warmer sound." Not Denon....I cannot edit my posts unless I pay lol

 

[Chrispy]

Since you mentioned 90% music, I would get Marantz over Denon every time, especially if your speakers are on the bright side. Denon is known to have a full bodied, warmer sound. When it comes to movies, Denon can be more engaging and exciting, but does not sound as good for 2 channel music listening. The Denons I tried in the past sounded more digital, and less natural, when playing my favorite CDs.

The Marantz Cinema 50 supports DIRAC room correction which can allow you get the Marantz to sound as exciting, or rolled off, as you want for your tastes when movie watching. I use DIRAC on my Onkyo RZ-50 in my home theater it is simply amazing, especially once you painstakingly dial it in to align with your taste. The great thing about DIRAC is that you can keep learning more about your setup and preferences, and continue to adjust your target curves to get to your final sound. The tweaking of the curves and tinkering is a fun/rewarding aspect also.

This "sound" is pretty much nonsense urban myth type stuff. Seriously doubt in a proper test you could tell Denon from Marantz, they're far more similar than different. At similar pricing maybe go for aesthetic (but don't like the porthole motif myself).

For OP, I'd simply choose on the feature set that works best for you and the near future at the best price you can get. I do tend to look at Denon myself as I have not found comparable pricing on Marantz so far.

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

This "sound" is pretty much nonsense urban myth type stuff. Seriously doubt in a proper test you could tell Denon from Marantz, they're far more similar than different. At similar pricing maybe go for aesthetic (but don't like the porthole motif myself).

For OP, I'd simply choose on the feature set that works best for you and the near future at the best price you can get. I do tend to look at Denon myself as I have not found comparable pricing on Marantz so far.

I agree that a similarly priced Marantz and Denon receiver will sound more similar than different, but that’s true of almost all receivers and amplifiers. It’s that final 5 or 10% nuanced difference in sound that makes all the difference for some folks when selecting gear. With Monitor audio tweeters I am pretty sure the OP will be able to hear a difference between the two in 2-channel listening.

 

[Chrispy]

I agree that a similarly priced Marantz and Denon receiver will sound more similar than different, but that’s true of almost all receivers and amplifiers. It’s that final 5 or 10% nuanced difference in sound that makes all the difference for some folks when selecting gear. With Monitor audio tweeters I am pretty sure the OP will be able to hear a difference between the two in 2-channel listening.

No, not by price/msrp or whatever. Not all stuff ranks that way at all. Why we're here....


ps It's not 5-10% in any case....far less than that.

 

[EWL5]

I meant to say "Marantz is known to have a full bodied, warmer sound." Not Denon....I cannot edit my posts unless I pay lol

Here's the reason for the warmer sound:

Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

looking to put in the extra for the x4800 over the x3800 but... non engineer here. unable to understand graphs and data. could someone please explain in layman terms how the x4800 with the same low quality DACs as the x3800 is Recommended where as the x3800 in Not Recommended...? thanks...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[StigErik]

An other Marantz. I used to have one... it did not sound warm to me at all, but rather harsh and bright.

Marantz SR7015 8K AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz SR7015 "8K" 9.2 channel Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was purchased new and kindly sent to me by a member. The SR7015 costs US $2,300 from Amazon including Prime shipping. Not much to say about the design of the SR7015 as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[EWL5]

An other Marantz. I used to have one... it did not sound warm to me at all, but rather harsh and bright.

Marantz SR7015 8K AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz SR7015 "8K" 9.2 channel Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was purchased new and kindly sent to me by a member. The SR7015 costs US $2,300 from Amazon including Prime shipping. Not much to say about the design of the SR7015 as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Maybe your hearing was better back then?

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

An other Marantz. I used to have one... it did not sound warm to me at all, but rather harsh and bright.

Marantz SR7015 8K AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz SR7015 "8K" 9.2 channel Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was purchased new and kindly sent to me by a member. The SR7015 costs US $2,300 from Amazon including Prime shipping. Not much to say about the design of the SR7015 as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I own the Marantz sr5013 and some speakers I tested with it sounded bright. However, these speakers were known for being bright and one model had metal dome tweeters (e.g. Monitor Audio Bronze 2 ). I don’t think that means that my Marantz is bright. Curious to know which speakers you used. I ran the Marantz with Elac Debut b6.2 speakers for a while and it was harsh at times. Turns out it was the Elac speakers. That was backed up here on ASR via data. I settled on Wharfedale Diamond 11.4 speakers for the Marantz, and nothing ever sounded bright with that pairing. So in conclusion, it could be something else in your setup.

 

[rynberg]

I own the Marantz sr5013 and some speakers I tested with it sounded bright. However, these speakers were known for being bright and one model had metal dome tweeters (e.g. Monitor Audio Bronze). I don’t think that means that my Marantz is bright. Curious to know which speakers you used. I ran the Marantz with Elac Debut b6.2 speakers for a while and it was harsh at times. Turns out it was the Elac speakers. That was backed up here on ASR via data. I settled on Wharfedale Diamond 11.4 speakers for the Marantz, and nothing ever sounded bright with that pairing. So in conclusion, it could be something else in your setup.

I would suggest spending a lot more time absorbing the lessons available here before posting...

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

I would suggest spending a lot more time absorbing the lessons available here before posting...

lol. Ok. I spend the time buying and auditioning the gear myself, and then after sufficient observation, I pair my subjective take against the objective data, which is usually found here. If you’re going to say something is harsh or rolled off, post your full chain or don’t post at all.

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

Here's the reason for the warmer sound:

Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

looking to put in the extra for the x4800 over the x3800 but... non engineer here. unable to understand graphs and data. could someone please explain in layman terms how the x4800 with the same low quality DACs as the x3800 is Recommended where as the x3800 in Not Recommended...? thanks...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It is humorous to read that data, and then see posts here with no specifics saying that their Marantz is harsh and bright. How does a rolled off filter qualify as bright ?

 

[Chrispy]

lol. Ok. I spend the time buying and auditioning the gear myself, and then after sufficient observation, I pair my subjective take against the objective data, which is usually found here. If you’re going to say something is harsh or rolled off, post your full chain or don’t post at all.

LOL post your full chain or don't post at all? Were any of your subjective takes worth considering by the rest of us?

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

LOL post your full chain or don't post at all? Were any of your subjective takes worth considering by the rest of us?

It doesn’t take a genius to know that the entire signal chain impacts the sound we hear, not to mention, the room. So if you’re going to say something that goes against the data and the generally accepted sound signature of a certain component, you should post the entire chain. Saying a Marantz receiver is bright and harsh, based on ASR data, is not objectively correct. And subjectively, as an owner, I can confirm it’s incorrect.

 

[Chrispy]

It doesn’t take a genius to know that the entire signal chain impacts the sound we hear, not to mention, the room. So if you’re going to say something that goes against the data and the generally accepted sound signature of a certain component, you should post the entire chain. Saying a Marantz receiver is bright and harsh, based on ASR data, is not objectively correct. And subjectively, as an owner, I can confirm it’s incorrect.

The urban myth is Marantz sounding "warm" compared to Denon. The point is your subjective evaluation isn't of particular interest, so far at least. The details of your subjective evaluation may be of interest, but don't see any.

 

[RayDunzl]

I am hoping you will be able to give me your thoughts on how you would spend your money on an AVR

I've never had one, nor do I expect to.

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

The urban myth is Marantz sounding "warm" compared to Denon. The point is your subjective evaluation isn't of particular interest, so far at least. The details of your subjective evaluation may be of interest, but don't see any.

Maybe it is a myth that Marantz sounds "warm" compared to Denon. How do you objectively test for warmth? I've auditioned and purchased home theater receivers three times in the last 15 years. Each time, I brought home a Denon, Yamaha and Marantz AVR and auditioned them in pure/source direct modes with my favorite CDs. Each time, the Marantz bested the Denon and Yamaha models in 2-channel music reproduction. I am not sure if the Marantz sounded better for music listening due to being "warmer". However, I kept the Marantz units because they did sound better, whatever the explanation was. With that said, my current AVR is an Onkyo RZ-50 because I have a dedicated theater now, freeing the AVR of 2-channel listening duties. For kicks, I once swapped out my Dirac enabled Onkyo for my older Marantz with Audyssey. I removed the Marantz from the theather in short order. For movies, it was no contest, the Marantz was not as engaging. I have even tested a much cheaper Denon for movie watching against my Marantz and found the cheaper Denon to be much more entertainig and engaging. However, music listening and movie watching are two entirely different use cases.

 

[StigErik]

There are quite a few clues in Amirs test of the SR7015 to why it could sound harsh / bright. It does not roll off the top end like other Marantz AVRs, and there’s a lot of supersonic noise at the preouts. Distortion increases at high frequencies as well.

I used it in preamp mode driving external Hypex amps that require high input levels ( ~6V ) where the SR7015 is not a good match.

I replaced it with an Anthem AVM 70, which both objectively and subjectively perform better.