Advice needed - Kef LS60 vs Kii vs D&D

[Purité Audio]

I got a weakness for them. Their (old?) factory was close to my old home. I heard of their hype but didn’t know they where produced so close to me. Once I was walking through a street I normally didn’t walk trough and I noticed the D&D boxes behind the windows. For a moment I thought: they wouldn’t miss one, would they.

So that’s also at play because support your locals I guess.

They are quite heavy too much for one under each arm , you would have to had come back with a shopping trolley,
Thinking about value, the coffee machine repair man was just here, steam valve had gone, when I bought the La Mazocco it was expensive ( we had cheaper machines before) but that machine has easily been my best investment, there is no need to ever change it, nothing better, unless I was serving far far more cups of coffee,
Keith

 

[Laagman]

They are quite heavy too much for one under each arm , you would have to had come back with a shopping trolley,
Keith

Think I have to go to the gym more often if I want to reconsider that plan.

 

[poopy]

All these models have near-perfect measurements and will sound quite similarly.

You wouldn't write that if you had listened to LS60 vs DD8C. Cardioid design does make a non negligible difference.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Cardioid is irrelevant if you don't like the overall sound of the speaker .
Yeah you can EQ it but it doesn't always help?
That's why it's a must to audition before buying .

 

[Kervel]

You wouldn't write that if you had listened to LS60 vs DD8C. Cardioid design does make a non negligible difference.

Fair point; I have not heard cardioids. Was only trying to reduce the decision paralysis

 

[poopy]

Fair point; I have not heard cardioids. Was only trying to reduce the decision paralysis

I'm afraid the only way to break this decision paralysis is to demo the speakers, and if possible, in a shop having at least two of the speakers listed above. Of course demoing at home is absolute best but rarely feasible in practice.

 

[Ron Texas]

The dilemma is that even if one has the money for the 8cs. Is it worth to spend that much money on them? Even though finances allow it. I’m also conservative if it comes to money spending. I’m Dutch for a reason.

For example when I heard the Kii 7 in comparison tot the Kii 3, I found the Kii 3 not to be worth double the price. Even though my finances allow me the buy the 3.

Diminishing returns are always a given.

Take any advice you get here with a grain of salt, so to speak. It's always easier to spend someone else's money than your own.

What does "can afford" mean?

If you bought the LS60's instead of the 8c's what would you do with the difference?

The closest I have ever been to listening to any of these are my LS50's with subs which Keith say come close to the LS60's.

How big is your room?

Buying a complex active speaker from a small company like D&D does carry the risk of parts availability down the road. Does anyone around here remember Snell? the owner died and the company went poof.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Diminishing returns are always a given.

Take any advice you get here with a grain of salt, so to speak. It's always easier to spend someone else's money than your own.

What does "can afford" mean?

If you bought the LS60's instead of the 8c's what would you do with the difference?

The closest I have ever been to listening to any of these are my LS50's with subs which Keith say come close to the LS60's.

How big is your room?

Buying a complex active speaker from a small company like D&D does carry the risk of parts availability down the road. Does anyone around here remember Snell? the owner died and the company went poof.

That's why I like to buy from more established brands... I don't want to say like Genelec again ,because people will think I'm a fanboy

 

[Arnas]

My opinion: Kii 7 for small to medium room
DD8 for medium to medium large room.
For really big rooms 8inch woofers from DD8 at louder wolumes gonna distort like crazy considering they are pushed way too hard in my opinion to go 20hz.

If i were you i would take Kii 7.
40hz with no big dips + room gain is absolutely enough for music in my opinion... For movies its not enough, but for music its enough for most i would imagine if it has spl needed.

I personally would have bought Kii7, but since i listen nearfield i picked coaxial Genelec ones.

 

[Ron Texas]

That's why I like to buy from more established brands... I don't want to say like Genelec again ,because people will think I'm a fanboy

Genelec is established, but their distribution in the US is nothing like JBL, Adam or KEF. These brands are available at hundreds of locations. I can't buy Genelec in Houston, the fourth largest city in the USA.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Genelec is established, but their distribution in the US is nothing like JBL, Adam or KEF. These brands are available at hundreds of locations. I can't buy Genelec in Houston, the fourth largest city in the USA.

I have no idea what's going on in the USA
Anyways location is pretty irrelevant when you can buy everything online.

 

[RobL]

Genelec is established, but their distribution in the US is nothing like JBL, Adam or KEF. These brands are available at hundreds of locations. I can't buy Genelec in Houston, the fourth largest city in the USA.

Hmmm…glass half full kinda situation, maybe a business opportunity?

 

[poopy]

I have no idea what's going on in the USA
Anyways location is pretty irrelevant when you can buy everything online.

If you're gonna spend $10k-$15k in a pair of speakers, I don't think it's unreasonable to use a small part of your budget to travel and demo the speakers you have on your list if there are no resellers near your home.

Another possibility is to order a pair, demo at home and return the pair. Due to cost of insurance and shipping these days, it may end up being more expensive than travelling.

In any case, buying based on measurements only or thumb up from Amir/Erin is an obvious mistake.

 

[MKR]

That's why I like to buy from more established brands... I don't want to say like Genelec again ,because people will think I'm a fanboy

Too late for that ... But I do agree a brand such as KEF or Genelec is solid regarding long term support being as they are fairly large companies. But, D&D is very well established and my view is they are very low risk in this aspect.

 

[MKR]

If you're gonna spend $10k-$15k in a pair of speakers, I don't think it's unreasonable to use a small part of your budget to travel and demo the speakers you have on your list if there are no resellers near your home.

Another possibility is to order a pair, demo at home and return the pair. Due to cost of insurance and shipping these days, it may end up being more expensive than travelling.

In any case, buying based on measurements only or thumb up from Amir/Erin is an obvious mistake.

100% agree here. I have spent considerable funds to audition many speakers and in the end a very small price to pay for the assurance I am making the right choice. Find a dealer that will allow you to do in home demos is best case. Next best is visiting dealers for extensive auditions. I had thought at one point D&D had an in home demo program directly, but maybe I am wrong about that? I suggest reaching out directly to D&D. And actually I just checked their site and they have a “book demo” link (https://forms.gle/cMbT4DgCVxko1aqg8) that states if you have no local dealer they will send you a demo pair! Something to investigate.

 

[Laagman]

My opinion: Kii 7 for small to medium room
DD8 for medium to medium large room.
For really big rooms 8inch woofers from DD8 at louder wolumes gonna distort like crazy considering they are pushed way too hard in my opinion to go 20hz.

If i were you i would take Kii 7.
40hz with no big dips + room gain is absolutely enough for music in my opinion... For movies its not enough, but for music its enough for most i would imagine if it has spl needed.

I personally would have bought Kii7, but since i listen nearfield i picked coaxial Genelec ones.

Guy from Kii said the 7s go down to 30, but couldn’t test it and I read somewhere they weren’t totally honest about that in the past. Interesting to see what we will see when they are properly measured by an external party.

 

[poopy]

and in the end a very small price to pay for the assurance I am making the right choice.

Same conclusions here. Maximum budget prior to purchasing should include travel budget for demo for the speakers in the short list, or budget for return/insurance if shipping.

I had thought at one point D&D had an in home demo program directly, but maybe I am wrong about that?

I tried this with Kii but they didn't have such a program. When I rang them they use the excuse of colour customisation, and tried to find a purchaser close to my location relying on his willingness to invite me for a home demo (there is no Kii reseller in my country). The purchaser declined. After that, no way I was gonna give $15k to Kii....

 

[Purité Audio]

Guy from Kii said the 7s go down to 30, but couldn’t test it and I read somewhere they weren’t totally honest about that in the past. Interesting to see what we will see when they are properly measured by an external party.

With a solidly built room that returns lots of bass they probably will, the Threes go down to that but I think probably because their target curve is horizontally flatter it doesn‘t always sound as they have that extension.
In the same way they sound a little thinner than say the 8Cs.
Keith

 

[MKR]

With a solidly built room that returns lots of bass they probably will, the Threes go down to that but I think probably because their target curve is horizontally flatter it doesn‘t always sound as they have that extension.
In the same way they sound a little thinner than say the 8Cs.
Keith

“Thinner”? What does that mean? Does it show up in the measurements?

 

[MKR]

Dutch and Dutch is my pick. No real need for subs. The customer service is great, I only have good things to say about the owner and if you do run into problems with an amp, you can swap it out yourself in about 5 minutes. There's a reason they get talked about and praised so much. To me it's the best audio product in the last decade.

Didn’t you have Geithains? Did you end up making the switch to the 8Cs?