• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

MacCali

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
1,111
Likes
526
Can you identify it or provide a link?
I believe the manufacturer is Shion. I looked on stereophile which had a bunch of the rooms but not that one.


“SHION is developing a revolutionary modular system of smart acoustic treatment panels. Each panel features a motion-sensing algorithm that uses AI and ultrasound to cancel noise, calibrate the acoustic performance of any space and deliver the optimized sound to the listener’s position in real time — while offering an elegant visual statement that can complement any interior design.
* No more sweet spots: the system tracks the listener’s position, and the optimized sound follows them around the space in a “sound bubble in motion.” The listener becomes the sweet spot!
* Cancel unwanted noise and enhance the performance of any audio system
* Changing from jazz to rock? Opera to classical? Change the acoustic response of your space with one click in the app
* After initial setup, the system self-calibrates in real time
* Active noise cancellation up to 11 dB
* Easy-mounting wall panels or free-standing options available
* A great replacement for passive soft panels or spaces using multiple sets of treatment
* Suitable for both home theaters/listening rooms as well as hotel lobbies, restaurants and event venues looking to cancel noise and create focused acoustic zones.
Smart is Beautiful: Introducing the AI Sound Treatment with a Luxury Aesthetic
Atanis Zhelev and Maria Korolova — the husband/wife team behind SHION — have roots in high-end design: they’re both part of the world-renowned Zaha Hadid architectural studio, which has extensive experience developing innovative interior solutions in challenging spaces.”
 

JRiggs

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
122
Likes
115
And 6500$ For the 55 is really something you call affordable for you?

I should really open a thread asking people what they do for living.
Relatively, yes. It is when compared to Storm, for example. You also should never pay full retail. Dealers can get these to customers at much less than retail. I got mine for close to 30% off retail.
 

AudioJester

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
886
Likes
1,176
HomeAudioFidelity has a Room Shaper plugin for pc, which I guess does something similar at a much cheaper pricepoint. I remember Mitcho reviewed it somewhere?

So this new Dirac add on an tackle resonances etc. What about dips?
 

kemmler3D

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 25, 2022
Messages
2,824
Likes
5,269
Location
San Francisco
HomeAudioFidelity has a Room Shaper plugin for pc, which I guess does something similar at a much cheaper pricepoint. I remember Mitcho reviewed it somewhere?

So this new Dirac add on an tackle resonances etc. What about dips?

As I understand it, it's using delayed copies of all channels through all speakers to better cancel peaks and dips acoustically. So this is a step beyond optimized multi-sub, since those (as I understand it) are basically just modifying phase and EQ of the original signal, ART adds new signal in order to 'null the nulls' so to speak.
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,589
Likes
2,705
As I understand it, it's using delayed copies of all channels through all speakers to better cancel peaks and dips acoustically. So this is a step beyond optimized multi-sub, since those (as I understand it) are basically just modifying phase and EQ of the original signal, ART adds new signal in order to 'null the nulls' so to speak.
Mathew Poes talked months ago about the kind of speakers that would take the best advantage of the software.

Logically he looked at Petlisten because that's a product he sells (not that they are bad speakers, though), but it would be interesting to know the characteristics that best blend with it.
 

nothingman

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
319
Likes
496
Location
USA
We expect to release DLBC for PC/Mac soon and it's possible to beta-test it now by opening a ticket on our HelpDesk with the link at the bottom of this page:
(you'll need to create a dedicated Support account)

Is there any reason you can communicate for miniDSP and NAD both not delivering on DLBC? NAD specifically had DLBC in their roadmap/ad copy years ago for products like the C658 and M33, and miniDSP is sitting on a host of 2x4 devices but won’t say a word about DLBC. It feels like vaporware, even though technically it exists.
 

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,793
Likes
4,462
Mathew Poes talked months ago about the kind of speakers that would take the best advantage of the software.

It’s not that hard to infer what would be good for reproducing source/upmixer signal plus cancellation signals. Speakers with headroom to spare, very good compression behavior (otherwise the calibration is only valid for a small volume range), and maybe decent bass extension - loud cleanly down to 50Hz or so - and decent sensitivity.
 

MarkS

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
1,050
Likes
1,488
Is there any reason you can communicate for miniDSP and NAD both not delivering on DLBC? NAD specifically had DLBC in their roadmap/ad copy years ago for products like the C658 and M33, and miniDSP is sitting on a host of 2x4 devices but won’t say a word about DLBC. It feels like vaporware, even though technically it exists.
Good question, I'm very interested in the answer.
 

TimoJ

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
401
Likes
442
Location
Finland
(Posted this already to AVS but just in case someone is not following that forum I'll repost here.)

I have been beta testing ART. Starting from the first calibration, I noticed that something amazing is happening with bass notes...

Just before beta testing started, I had moved my system to a larger room, so I had not much experience how well DLBC works there. Subwoofer locations are not (yet...) optimized, they are just besides (closer to center) the main speakers. The room has no extra acoustic treatments.

The difference between DLBC and ART is huge. DLBC always seems to reduce bass and has these "out of phase" bass notes and room modes (if source material has lots of bass energy at that frequency) while with ART I get very exact and quick bass notes with almost pinpoint accuracy (of upper bass notes). Room modes are gone and bass output is not reduced at their frequency. Testing only with 2 channel music. Before this I got similar bass accuracy only with headphones.

In this new room DLBC actually sounded so bad vs. ART that I had to verify it was working correctly with the test software, Dirac verified it was.

I haven't noticed any weird effects or "cone of ART" where sound is noticeable different from the rest of the room. I just get much improved bass (and of course all the regular Dirac benefits). Bass seems to sound almost the same inside the whole speaker area. I'm using just one position for listening, so other locations are no interest for me, but I still have checked this.

My first setup was just 2.2 setup with Klipsch RP-280F mains and SVS SB-2000 subs. Then I tested with 3.2 setup with Klipsch RP-440C center. My current setup is 6.2 with 4x Polk Audio Signature S50e for surrounds and surround backs. HDMI limits channels to eight, so that is the maximum I can use.

I have also tested ART with just 2 channels (in a different room) and even with that it still handles room modes better than regular Dirac.
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,252
Likes
4,910
Location
Nashville
(Posted this already to AVS but just in case someone is not following that forum I'll repost here.)

I have been beta testing ART. Starting from the first calibration, I noticed that something amazing is happening with bass notes...

Just before beta testing started, I had moved my system to a larger room, so I had not much experience how well DLBC works there. Subwoofer locations are not (yet...) optimized, they are just besides (closer to center) the main speakers. The room has no extra acoustic treatments.

The difference between DLBC and ART is huge. DLBC always seems to reduce bass and has these "out of phase" bass notes and room modes (if source material has lots of bass energy at that frequency) while with ART I get very exact and quick bass notes with almost pinpoint accuracy (of upper bass notes). Room modes are gone and bass output is not reduced at their frequency. Testing only with 2 channel music. Before this I got similar bass accuracy only with headphones.

In this new room DLBC actually sounded so bad vs. ART that I had to verify it was working correctly with the test software, Dirac verified it was.

I haven't noticed any weird effects or "cone of ART" where sound is noticeable different from the rest of the room. I just get much improved bass (and of course all the regular Dirac benefits). Bass seems to sound almost the same inside the whole speaker area. I'm using just one position for listening, so other locations are no interest for me, but I still have checked this.

My first setup was just 2.2 setup with Klipsch RP-280F mains and SVS SB-2000 subs. Then I tested with 3.2 setup with Klipsch RP-440C center. My current setup is 6.2 with 4x Polk Audio Signature S50e for surrounds and surround backs. HDMI limits channels to eight, so that is the maximum I can use.

I have also tested ART with just 2 channels (in a different room) and even with that it still handles room modes better than regular Dirac.
The way I'm understanding this is you use one (ART) or the other (DLBC), but both are not used simultaneously.
 

Ciobi69

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2022
Messages
379
Likes
232
I got my NAD 758 with Dirac live and it's been good they will never put bass management in my unit even if it's from 2021s...sadly Dirac it's becoming the apple of DRC , now to get ART you have to get a processor that cost at least 6k??? Whattt?? They are completely crazy, but i want to see how the situation evolve.
 

RenPa

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Messages
20
Likes
6
Ideally something like miniDSP with DLBC would be great. im not holding my breath though.
I am light years away from being an expert but I have been reading a lot for the last 10 years. I had a nanoAvr miniDSP a long time ago that had Dirac in hdmi between a blu-ray and the receiver and it turned out that the design was flawed with respect to audio science. The speakers should be measured in full spl (20- 20 000) either before the bass management but filters should apply downstream the bass management. For me this would be the reason why, since version 3.0 of Dirac, miniDSP does not offer devices with Dirac and hdmi. You need a DAC to translate to analog and a device with another DAC with Dirac and send it back to the amplifiers.
As Dirac 3.0 DLBC and soon DLArt take control of the receiver, I don't see how miniDSP can manage! I waited 6-7 years and decided for a receiver with DLBC filters in it.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 

Newman

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
3,340
Likes
4,094
So, no measurements from nobody nowhere yet?
 

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,793
Likes
4,462
As Dirac 3.0 DLBC and soon DLArt take control of the receiver, I don't see how miniDSP can manage! I waited 6-7 years and decided for a receiver with DLBC filters in it.

They would have to be downstream, and all of the processing in the AVR/P disabled. Also lots of systems do not use HDMI.

miniDSP makes a lot of really great products. But I’m really disappointed they haven’t adopted DLBC on their platforms. At the very least, the SHD line should have it (limited to 2 subs, sure) to make it relevant when they now have the basically equivalent Flex.
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,101
Likes
2,768
Anyone know if using ART if you still use DLBC to manage subs and crossovers?
 

TimoJ

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
401
Likes
442
Location
Finland
At the very least, the SHD line should have it (limited to 2 subs, sure) to make it relevant when they now have the basically equivalent Flex.
Those are internally just 2 Dirac channel devices and sub filtering and routing is done after that. So I think adding DLBC is not possible. They could add it to their 8 Dirac channel devices, DDRC-88 and C-DSP 8x12 DL.
 
Top Bottom