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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

Sancus

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Well ATM only Storm offers it. So more like stratosphere. :(
Other brand did not commit themselves until now. That's the problem with dirac from the start: Not enough AVRs available with the recent tech and also nly the expensive ones. Now we have sort of affordable AVRs with basic Dirac but DLBC ist still limited to only some AVRs. I guess the problem is that it does not really fir in the business model of many manufacturers to offer more functionality for a fee that that was promised. They want to sell you new AVRs instead.
Storm has an exclusive until Q4. So no one else CAN offer it. I would hope we'll see better availability at next year's CES.
 

hmt

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Actually I find it a bit concerning that no other manufacturer has eve committed to implement ART. Silence from D&M, Voxx, NAD and Arcam. The problem here wont be the exclusivity till Q4. Actuall even if the other brand would start right now they would not be able to offer it this year. Imo the exclusivity for storm is a moot point and not a factor anyway.
 

ban25

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Actually I find it a bit concerning that no other manufacturer has eve committed to implement ART. Silence from D&M, Voxx, NAD and Arcam. The problem here wont be the exclusivity till Q4. Actuall even if the other brand would start right now they would not be able to offer it this year. Imo the exclusivity for storm is a moot point and not a factor anyway.
I imagine the exclusivity deal means that there will be no discussion from Dirac's side with other manufacturers until after that period has expired.
 

Trell

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Actually I find it a bit concerning that no other manufacturer has eve committed to implement ART. Silence from D&M, Voxx, NAD and Arcam. The problem here wont be the exclusivity till Q4. Actuall even if the other brand would start right now they would not be able to offer it this year. Imo the exclusivity for storm is a moot point and not a factor anyway.
D&M says DLBC will be available sometime in 2024, so no hurry, I guess.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Silence from D&M, Voxx, NAD and Arcam. The problem here wont be the exclusivity till Q4.
The more noise they make about the coming of DL/Art, the more people will avoid buying current production models in the interim. Basic market economics.
 

TimoJ

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I imagine the exclusivity deal means that there will be no discussion from Dirac's side with other manufacturers until after that period has expired.
Dirac has already said that they have development material available and ready for others. But who knows if other manufacturers are yet allowed to tell about their ART plans.
 

hmt

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I imagine the exclusivity deal means that there will be no discussion from Dirac's side with other manufacturers until after that period has expired.

That's not the case. Dirac mentioned that they can start implementing it now but only provide ART from Q4 on.
 

alont

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I'm personally very excited about this. Already saving up for a processor + full range speakers that will still be small enough to place around my small home theater.
 

Spocko

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Storm has an exclusive until Q4. So no one else CAN offer it. I would hope we'll see better availability at next year's CES.
If ART requires processing by the AVR rather than cloud, then it's unlikely considering most consumer AVRs barely have enough processing in their SOC. It makes sense for Storm and their true CPUs but D&M would have to charge a bit more if the AVR needs more processing bandwidth for this.
 

Sancus

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If ART requires processing by the AVR rather than cloud, then it's unlikely considering most consumer AVRs barely have enough processing in their SOC. It makes sense for Storm and their true CPUs but D&M would have to charge a bit more if the AVR needs more processing bandwidth for this.
Dirac said ART requires 20% more processing power than DLBC, if that's true then no there isn't really that much difference.

E: See interview starting at 5:01. Generally speaking, there will be no technical barrier to old equipment that can currently run Dirac Live using ART.
 
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Vacceo

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If I were in the marketing department of a manufacturer wanting to implement ART (I'm thinking Arcam, Primare or Emotiva), I'd wait till the presentation of 2024's line of products or at least, 2023's with the sticker that says "upgradeable next year".

In a nutshell: too soon to tell, but probably on the works.
 

ooheadsoo

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I think marketing in the mass market AVRs will still demand that ART trickles on down slowly from the flagship models downwards, similar to Auro3D is only slowly trickling its way down to the enthusiast class models. It'll be years before ART makes it down to my sub $2k price range. That means, in practical terms, since I want an AVR today, I'm going to buy one now. No need to hold out.
 

Music707

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Dirac said ART requires 20% more processing power than DLBC, if that's true then no there isn't really that much difference.

E: See interview starting at 5:01. Generally speaking, there will be no technical barrier to old equipment that can currently run Dirac Live using ART.

Just for the records: In the interview Dr Ericsson does not make clear whether additional processing power was calculated based on DL (w/o bass control) or DLBC. Here is my transcription from the linked video:

Q: In terms of the kind of legacy equipment that will be able to run this, is there any limit on this? If it can run Dirac Live does it mean it can also run this?
A: (...) This adds like I think about 20% on top of what dirac live is doing at the moment. (...)

Thinking of the legacy equipment mentioned in the question DL may be a meaningful base line. On the other hand what Dirac live "is doing at the moment" may include BC (but may possibly only refer to the most recent DL version w/o BC). But since 20% seems to be quite a moderate step up the question whether DL or DLBC was the base line is not critical at all.

Another interesting statement comes a bit later in the video when the interviewer (at approx. 5:52) asks whether DL ART could possibly run on e. g. an already available Onkyo processor that is running DL and Dr. Ericsson says that technically that would be possible.

A big practical challenge seems to be the high implementation effort required to make DL ART run on a PrePro or AVR. (According to a video by Lars Mette in German this was pointed out by StormAudio.) We know that StormAudio despite having already been working on the DL ART implementation still more time is needed before the firmware is ready for release. Even if D&M and others were interested in implementing DL ART and would e. g. start working right now StormAudio might keep its first mover advantage for some time beyond Q3 23 because competitors might require considerable time for development.
 

hmt

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As a mentioned before. Most manufacturers want to sell new AVRs every 2 years. Software is an afterthought. => we will probably see ART only in upcoming AVRs from 2024 on. That's a problem that dirac will have to overcome when they want to sell more licenses.
 

Music707

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As a mentioned before. Most manufacturers want to sell new AVRs every 2 years. Software is an afterthought. => we will probably see ART only in upcoming AVRs from 2024 on. That's a problem that dirac will have to overcome when they want to sell more licenses.

Yesterday you wrote: "Actually I find it a bit concerning that no other manufacturer has eve committed to implement ART. Silence from D&M, Voxx, NAD and Arcam." (post #62)

Following your latest post, why is there a reason to be concerned? For manufacturers it would be early enough to talk about additional features (here: ART) when they are about to introduce their new AVRs.
 

phoenixdogfan

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As a mentioned before. Most manufacturers want to sell new AVRs every 2 years. Software is an afterthought. => we will probably see ART only in upcoming AVRs from 2024 on. That's a problem that dirac will have to overcome when they want to sell more licenses.
Of course they could always sell ART for PC's where ample processing power exists to run it correctly. And we're hitting on another reason why I never want to buy an AVR: The planned obsolesence manufacturers build into them via their business model.
 

RenPa

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The more noise they make about the coming of DL/Art, the more people will avoid buying current production models in the interim. Basic market economics.
eH oui!
@TimoJ If I remember correctly DL Art took the place or replace DLBC isn't it? ( we could have 4 options: Off, Upmix, Full and, ART) If so, 20% more processing from what Dirac does is not a problem; it means 20 % more than DL not than DLBC, no?
 
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TimoJ

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eH oui!
@TimoJ If I remember correctly DL Art took the place or replace DLBC isn't it? ( we could have 4 options: Off, Upmix, Full and, ART) If so, 20% more processing from what Dirac does is not a problem; it means 20 % more than DL not than DLBC, no?
I think it means 20% more than DLBC, both include some form of bass management (replacing AVR's own) that regular Dirac is missing. And on top of that ART does these extra things for all channels.
 

Sancus

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Just for the records: In the interview Dr Ericsson does not make clear whether additional processing power was calculated based on DL (w/o bass control) or DLBC. Here is my transcription from the linked video:
I don't know that there is any additional processing power required for DLBC in the first place. More available channels sort of but it wouldn't necessarily use more filters than DL and the actual calculations are done in the cloud not on a processor.
Even if D&M and others were interested in implementing DL ART and would e. g. start working right now StormAudio might keep its first mover advantage for some time beyond Q3 23 because competitors might require considerable time for development.
To be clear, I don't think there is any way we see low end and midrange makers release ART in 2024. I am more expecting it from the ones that have already done the development work for DLBC. Like Arcam/JBL, Monoprice, etc. They are probably in the best position to get it done.

And yeah nobody is going to retrofit it to ancient hardware either. What I was replying to was the idea that only the PC based processors could handle ART. But no, no increase in hardware specs over current processors is required.
 

hmt

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Yesterday you wrote: "Actually I find it a bit concerning that no other manufacturer has eve committed to implement ART. Silence from D&M, Voxx, NAD and Arcam." (post #62)

Following your latest post, why is there a reason to be concerned? For manufacturers it would be early enough to talk about additional features (here: ART) when they are about to introduce their new AVRs.
And that's what I find concerning. ;) Manufacturers only seem to be interested in providing ART as a means to sell a new Gen of AVRs.

Of course they could always sell ART for PC's where ample processing power exists to run it correctly. And we're hitting on another reason why I never want to buy an AVR: The planned obsolesence manufacturers build into them via their business model.

Imo a multichannel license for dirac on a PC is not really what most of the people want.
 
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