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A physicist explains why we need cable lifters...

FlyingFreak

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Speaking about professionals working, it still blows my mind the kind of strange rhetoric people attached to the idea of unobtainium this and that when confronted to the argument that no professionals in sound reproduction (no sound production, no concert, no movie nothing) ever cared about the quality-of-sound-whatever of their cables.
Moreover, all serious brands of anything to produce music uses engineers to design their products, cause it's an engineering issue first (then a issue of reproducibility and cost of production and design/fashion one and all the way down there a marketing one).
Few people I know working in the industry of sound production are first and foremost proud of their room acoustics. Some dream about better speakers, most don't care. When they speak about speakers, it's not brand they speak about nor how sweet the low medium or revealing the bass is.
Then comes research, both with numbers and double blind test to finally get those snake oil guys out of business and it is the guys who spent money on those meaningless products that all come with bombed chests to protect them. One of the way being to call ASR cult followers and so much nonsense about trusting our ears in non controlled rooms, one speaker at a time.

I have not yet met a cult followers who, when cornered, doesn't call the people trying to help them cult followers. It's literally how any cult works, I know.

To me it is more sensible to believe that we are govern by lizard people living underground poisoning our air with contrail and poisoning our water with whatever. Cause if you look, we know our water and air are polluted and I am unaware of a way to know for good they are no lizard people (I am breathing and drinking so I guess me too cant see them manipulating my every thoughts).

However, sound and a little hifi system, no matter how simple or complicated, are fairly simple things.

I guess what I am trying to say is: if you wanna believe anything, could you please make sure it is a believable belief? They are plenty of them! After life whatever, believable, no authority on the matter. Karma, believable, no authority on the matter. God? Who can say? Even ghosts, vampires and lizard people, they all could be smarter than us and hid on the dark side of the moon with tech we dont know about etc... But freaking hifi cables? It is so lame. And expensive. Better way to entertain ourselves than with lame, proved to be wrong wanna be a bridge between magic and science nonsense.
 

fpitas

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Speaking about professionals working, it still blows my mind the kind of strange rhetoric people attached to the idea of unobtainium this and that when confronted to the argument that no professionals in sound reproduction (no sound production, no concert, no movie nothing) ever cared about the quality-of-sound-whatever of their cables.
Moreover, all serious brands of anything to produce music uses engineers to design their products, cause it's an engineering issue first (then a issue of reproducibility and cost of production and design/fashion one and all the way down there a marketing one).
Few people I know working in the industry of sound production are first and foremost proud of their room acoustics. Some dream about better speakers, most don't care. When they speak about speakers, it's not brand they speak about nor how sweet the low medium or revealing the bass is.
Then comes research, both with numbers and double blind test to finally get those snake oil guys out of business and it is the guys who spent money on those meaningless products that all come with bombed chests to protect them. One of the way being to call ASR cult followers and so much nonsense about trusting our ears in non controlled rooms, one speaker at a time.

I have not yet met a cult followers who, when cornered, doesn't call the people trying to help them cult followers. It's literally how any cult works, I know.

To me it is more sensible to believe that we are govern by lizard people living underground poisoning our air with contrail and poisoning our water with whatever. Cause if you look, we know our water and air are polluted and I am unaware of a way to know for good they are no lizard people (I am breathing and drinking so I guess me too cant see them manipulating my every thoughts).

However, sound and a little hifi system, no matter how simple or complicated, are fairly simple things.

I guess what I am trying to say is: if you wanna believe anything, could you please make sure it is a believable belief? They are plenty of them! After life whatever, believable, no authority on the matter. Karma, believable, no authority on the matter. God? Who can say? Even ghosts, vampires and lizard people, they all could be smarter than us and hid on the dark side of the moon with tech we dont know about etc... But freaking hifi cables? It is so lame. And expensive. Better way to entertain ourselves than with lame, proved to be wrong wanna be a bridge between magic and science nonsense.
The boutique cable companies are specialists in indoctrination. They spend a lot of time making YouTube videos, making and placing "upscale" ads etc etc. Obviously they take the whole process very seriously. Piles of cash will do that.
 

krabapple

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This.
10000 times, forever.
Gimme cables that levitates when powered on and slowly come back to the floor when turned off.
Please, someone. We need levitating cables.
Then let manufacturers convinced people who run cables through their walls, ceiling and floor they need levitating cables too.
If nothing else it would entertain my two cats. They're into limited aspects of the AV hobby. The remote controlled loading and ejecting of media discs fascinates them, for example.
 

thewas

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I looked at the two companies in your signature. I have to say I'm impressed. I had the good fortune when I was young 40 years ago? to go on tour with Dire Straits. I am always amazed at all the work involved in live performances at large venues. The sound system, lighting and such is amazing. Of course this was before computers controlled everything. It was like watching a well oiled machine go to work at every venue. All the different groups (sound, lighting, stage set up etc) all went to work and did their job. It all got done with no fuss. Plus the guys really worked. Problem was I accidently found out they had help. I saw a board or something with a line of dust or something on it and I brushed it off to kind of clean it off. Later I heard them asking what happened to the cocaine? No one knew where it went. I kept my mouth shut as it was a VERY good paying job. Live and learn!:)
In an interview Giorgio Moroder said he did the same, namely cleaning some white "dirt" from a console in a studio in the USA in the 80s and later he found out what it was. :D
 

tbakersv

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I have kept in my many moves an original pair of Acoustat Model X speakers I purchased in the 70's. I finally took them out of the storage room, cleaned them up, dusted off the old amps, did some re-wiring, and added a sub woofer. They sound great! My question is what was the original suggested retail price of these speakers. I don't remember and can't find the answer anywhere. Thanks.
 

DavidMcRoy

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I have kept in my many moves an original pair of Acoustat Model X speakers I purchased in the 70's. I finally took them out of the storage room, cleaned them up, dusted off the old amps, did some re-wiring, and added a sub woofer. They sound great! My question is what was the original suggested retail price of these speakers. I don't remember and can't find the answer anywhere. Thanks.
As examples:

 

fpitas

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ahofer

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charleski

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For anyone who's unduly awed by the 'a physicist explains' bit ... I once went to a talk by Brian Josepheson, winner of the Nobel Prize for discovering the effect that bears his name. It wasn't as entertaining as the description given below (from Henri Atlan, Enlightenment to Enlightenment), but there were plenty of strained faces and a lot of angry muttering. We knew he was a bit odd, but this was something else.

Josepheson1.jpg

Josepheson2.jpg
 

fpitas

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For anyone who's unduly awed by the 'a physicist explains' bit ... I once went to a talk by Brian Josepheson, winner of the Nobel Prize for discovering the effect that bears his name. It wasn't as entertaining as the description given below (from Henri Atlan, Enlightenment to Enlightenment), but there were plenty of strained faces and a lot of angry muttering. We knew he was a bit odd, but this was something else.

View attachment 260064
View attachment 260065
Lol!

He was trying to explain how he lifted the mental veils. The difference was night and day! I doubt his wife heard the difference in the kitchen...
 

Laotze

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In this two-part video series, Roland Gauder, co-founder of German loudspeaker manufacturer Gauder Acoustics, explains the influence of speaker cables on sound.


At the beginning of the first and towards the end of the second video, he claims that the electromagnetic field surrounding cables is disturbed when they lie on the ground. For that reason he recommends to use cable lifters. Unfortunately he does not show any data...
I only made it 3 minutes in... But: He starts off pretty badly by saying that the energy is transferred in the EM field outside the wire. This is nonsense.

The electric field inside a solid core conductor is zero, the surface carries the overwhelming vast majority of the electric field for an insulated wire. The electric field beyond insulation in negligible.

The only appreciable outside effects will be via the magnetic field of the wire. Is he arguing that inductive losses are a major issue? My BS detector is going off... I'll try to watch some more, maybe he makes a good argument, but I doubt it.
 

Laotze

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I only made it 3 minutes in... But: He starts off pretty badly by saying that the energy is transferred in the EM field outside the wire. This is nonsense.

The electric field inside a solid core conductor is zero, the surface carries the overwhelming vast majority of the electric field for an insulated wire. The electric field beyond insulation in negligible.

The only appreciable outside effects will be via the magnetic field of the wire. Is he arguing that inductive losses are a major issue? My BS detector is going off... I'll try to watch some more, maybe he makes a good argument, but I doubt it.
So, at the 8 minute mark of this drivel, he confirms that the electric field losses are negligible.

My grandfather used to say: if you can't impress them with intelligence, baffle them with BS.

He went back to talking about the inductance and resistance of the cable, ignoring the surroundings.

At 10 minutes, he talks about the time constant, admits that a typical well designed cable has a range of 600 khz.... Ok. Then decided to divide that by 10 for some unknown reason. Then by a factor of 100. Yeah, over 2 orders of magnitude will cause issues. But that's not the case with our cables.

Next up, skin effect. BS detector is a smoking pile of rubble now. We aren't transmitting radio frequency in 28 gauge wire here... He says 2 khz has measurable skin effect... Maybe, at -300db or something like that, but I'm calling BS on this argument.

19 minutes in, he talks about the magnetic losses, from the wires repelling each other, he quotes it at around 1/10000 newtons. Then he questions whether we can hear this. Whisky, tango, foxtrot. I'm done, I can't watch any more.

This guy talks physics, but it's all handwaving.
 

Pewee

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Thank you for you excellent explanation on this matter having a very revealing system and always thought raising the cable of the floor made sense electronically to me i appreciate you taking the time to explain it,to bad for the ignorance described in some responses to your teaching,I found it very useful
 

ahofer

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ahofer

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Thank you for you excellent explanation on this matter having a very revealing system and always thought raising the cable of the floor made sense electronically to me i appreciate you taking the time to explain it,to bad for the ignorance described in some responses to your teaching,I found it very useful
Poe’s Law? Bot?
 
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