64 Audio tia Trió IEM Review

[Jimbob54]

Not a sound value proposition.

 

[amirm]

Isn't his tool let you normalize at any Hz you want?
View attachment 267589

I don't know. I don't use his tool. I was reacting to the graph posted where the alignment was incorrectly put at 2 kHz, making it look different than mine. I predicted, as you are showing, that if alignment point was correctly lowered to 500 Hz, it would then resemble mine.

As a side point, has he ever expressed if those dB numbers are correct? I hope he doesn't measure at just 55 dBSPL as that would cause issues with noise and such. And certainly not generate usable distortion figures.

 

[uwotm8]

>$2300 IEM
It exceeds bank gold price (according to weight), right?
While being just a typical $40-80 IEM

Meanwhile @Audioquest: "So, we just could..."

 

[TNT]

"Because I can't get good sound out of these IEMs in my listening tests, I can't recommend the 64 Audio tia Trió"

Since when is listening = science?

As if the distortion at 2k wasn't enough to disqualify the DUT.

//

 

[IAtaman]

A lot of people say an IEM this expensive should perform better, and I don't think anyone disagrees with that, including myself. But I think it is also important to remember that price tag is part of the product's unique selling proposition as well - 64Audio is supposed to be the expensive and exclusive IEM brand. A cheap Rolls Royce anyone can buy is not a Rolls Royce anymore.

 

[staticV3]

Why hasn't he aligned the measurement at a low frequency with target? Standard is around 500 Hz (I use 425) He has is lined up at 2 kHz which doesn't make sense as that point can be highly variable.

He (Crinacle) hasn't lined up anything. That graph was created by @Keith_W using the cringraph tool that you can find here: https://crinacle.com/graphing/tooliemfree.php
By default, this tool will set both the DUT and the target to 60dB Average. You can then change the alignment to whatever you want.

Edit: I'd love to hear your thoughts on this regarding normalisation.

 

[staticV3]

As a side point, has he ever expressed if those dB numbers are correct? I hope he doesn't measure at just 55 dBSPL as that would cause issues with noise and such. And certainly not generate usable distortion figures.

He measures at 94dB SPL. The dB scale in the cringraph tool is relative and doesn't reflect absolute SPL.

 

[uwotm8]

A cheap Rolls Royce

You can't buy anything comparable to RR even 2-3 times cheaper. And you can barely buy any new car 50 times cheaper.
While these IEMs are worse than some 50 times cheaper alternatives.

The best thing that comes up to my mind is selling bricks with Supreme logo - pretty much this we have
Price alone doesn't make anything premium or luxorious or whatever

 

[IAtaman]

Price alone doesn't make anything premium or luxorious or whatever

True, at the same time no product or brand that claims to be premium and exclusive is cheap, which is my point.

 

[GaryH]

He (Crinacle) hasn't lined up anything.

He normalizes at a (still wrong) frequency of 1 kHz:

 

[ugur38]

As a side point, has he ever expressed if those dB numbers are correct? I hope he doesn't measure at just 55 dBSPL as that would cause issues with noise and such. And certainly not generate usable distortion figures.

 

[FrantzM]

A lot of people say an IEM this expensive should perform better, and I don't think anyone disagrees with that, including myself. But I think it is also important to remember that price tag is part of the product's unique selling proposition as well - 64Audio is supposed to be the expensive and exclusive IEM brand. A cheap Rolls Royce anyone can buy is not a Rolls Royce anymore.

I would argue that pricing at that level, in Audio, should mandate that you provide, something, anything audio related. e.g. Dan Clark's Expanse and Stealth headphones or perhaps , for its "spatial qualities" the Sennheiser HD800S... Not the case here, audio-wise, this IEM, is surpassed by the $50.oo IEM champion named TCZ. It fails, not only on the value proposition but also on performance.
Now , we are living, for the most part, in capitalist markets. There exist tee-shirts (!!!!) that are no better than any you could grab at a gas station convenience store, yet cost several thousands of USD, for having a logo on them ... If a person is able to afford these, and believes in the ears of audio gurus, or YouTube influencers, or is fixated on the "Mo'h money= Mo'h better" mantra .. More power to her/him/them.. but, they are not getting a better IEM by any other metrics...

A big fail in my opinion...

Peace.

 

[markanini]

There's also potential that 64Audio's in house response is relative to some in ear HRTF curves, which are measurements that Harman's published research didn't deal with.

There's too be much variation to entertain the idea fully. It's possible they could do that, however the product would perform in a recording dependent way. Only someone irrationally invested would see past the drawbacks of a set that fails at general listening.

I don't thing many people understand that this is/was done. They think that the Harman Target was derived from people listening to different headphones and IEMs.

Predictability of the target of was verified in later tests using real headphones.

A lot of people say an IEM this expensive should perform better, and I don't think anyone disagrees with that, including myself. But I think it is also important to remember that price tag is part of the product's unique selling proposition as well - 64Audio is supposed to be the expensive and exclusive IEM brand. A cheap Rolls Royce anyone can buy is not a Rolls Royce anymore.

This is a good point. 64 Audio would fail at competing with Chinese brands with any chance of breaking even. Maintaining their brand on subjective values is the only way they survive. I know this will rile some people up but that's the reality of how people and the market works.

 

[MayaTlab]

Predictability of the target of was verified in later tests using real headphones.

I'm not certain what you mean by "predictability of the target", but for IEMs the actual IEMs were never inserted in the listeners' ears, at least for the published articles we know of. All IEM tests were performed through a Sennheiser Momentum in-ear IEI, modded with a MEMS mic inside the bore to check the bass response up to several hundred Hz.

 

[IAtaman]

A big fail in my opinion...

How is this a big fail I don't see it. Although it is quite high, if I am reading the graph correctly, distortion seems to be 50db below signal level across the range. Assuming you haven't actually heard it, do you think it would make an audible difference?

Or it is the FR? Because that does not look like a big fail to me either. What makes this IEM A big fail, could you please elaborate?

 

[milosz]

I have tried quite a few IEMs. In my case, they all hurt to wear. Tried a whole bunch of tips - included tips, aftermarket tips, custom molded tips. They all hurt, I'm not sure why. I'll stick with on-ear or over-the-ear headphones.

 

[FrantzM]

How is this a big fail I don't see it. Although it is quite high, if I am reading the graph correctly, distortion seems to be 50db below signal level across the range. Assuming you haven't actually heard it, do you think it would make an audible difference?

Or it is the FR? Because that does not look like a big fail to me either. What makes this IEM A big fail, could you please elaborate?

When performance and (subjectively) looks, do not surpass those of a$50.oo product.
In some segments of the Hi-Fi market, products whose sole attributes are prices, do pass and sell. We have countless examples of $6000.oo USB cables, not to mention. in passing, power regenerators or $15,000.oo DAC who can't do as well as a $9.95.oo dongle. You can visit forums, where, several people (upward of 5 ) are extolling the virtues of such products, with no objective metrics to back them up. That , to me is the point. This is after all a $2300.oo IEM, let's keep this in mind, that doesn't provide better performance than one costing $50.oo.
We can delve into sociology , economics or politics. In each case we can find some kind of fluff rationalization for the existence of this product. In the discussion here at ASR , my (our?) focus is about performance and, yes, price, thus Price to Performance ratio... Within this frame of reference: What justifications can we find for this product?


Peace.

P.S.
I wanted to put them side by side ...

 

[Blorg]

Why hasn't he aligned the measurement at a low frequency with target? Standard is around 500 Hz (I use 425) He has is lined up at 2 kHz which doesn't make sense as that point can be highly variable. If he did align it at 500 Hz, then it would look very close to mine. Bass would come down and show the same deficiency as I do.

Cringraph (the software used for Crinacle's graph tool as well as all the squig.link sites) on initial load dynamically aligns the graph and target according to the average level across the whole response. So it's not aligned at a fixed point for each graph. You can re-align it at a frequency of your choosing.

Aligning at 500, I don't think really reflects the actual subjective FR of these, if you did that you'd think from the graph they are very recessed in the upper mids, which they aren't really. My understanding, choice of an alignment point is purely conventional, and at least to me the default dynamic alignment probably does convey best how they actually sound.

Crinacle's IEM Graph Comparison Tools | Hangout.Audio

The world's largest public database of IEM measurements.

crinacle.com

This is a handy tool to quickly check seal, it plays a 50Hz and 500Hz tone so you can compare them. If you have a bad seal the 50Hz tone will be near silent. Some IEMs it can take a bit of "tip rolling" (trying different tips) to get a good seal with your particular ear. I use Moondrop Spring Tips a lot, and usually get a good seal with those, including on these, although there are some IEMs they don't work with. For me, the fit with 64 Audio is very good, but fit is ultimately personal.

 

[asrUser]

Yup those are really expensive IEMs and still sound mediocre. @amirm When will you review Truthear Hexa?

 

[markanini]

We can delve into sociology , economics or politics. In each case we can find some kind of fluff rationalization for the existence of this product. In the discussion here at ASR , my (our?) focus is about performance and, yes, price, thus Price to Performance ratio... Within this frame of reference: What justifications can we find for this product?

Objective, measurable values will pale in light of market demands, were talking hard money. All you can do as a consumer is decide what matters to your individual needs. I'd rather have companies like 64 Audio stay afloat than not. Their chances of doing so by catering to objectivists is a global economy is slim to none. What will be the impetus for research and innovation in the future without a thriving industry consisting of big and small players?