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3e Audio SY-DAPx002 TPA3250/TPA3255 DSP Amplifier

timmaio

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I am not so happy that the Amplifier automatically power down over a short period of time when there is no signal present. Although this might seem a nice feature on paper it is not very practical in the real world ! I tend to leave my amplifiers on 24/7 - Digital amplifiers use very little power when there is no signal !

I agree, I start to play something from my phone after the music stopped 30 min ago and find that it is playing from the phone rather than the amp, have to turn the amp back on...

I intend to use this as a desktop and workshop amp which will see intermittent usage, so it's not a dealbreaker. However I had considered replacing my home built UcD32MP amp connected to chromecast audio which sits on a high shelf always on. Obviously it will not work for that use case which is a shame given what a tidy package this is.
 

Bushellj

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I agree, I start to play something from my phone after the music stopped 30 min ago and find that it is playing from the phone rather than the amp, have to turn the amp back on...

I intend to use this as a desktop and workshop amp which will see intermittent usage, so it's not a dealbreaker. However I had considered replacing my home built UcD32MP amp connected to chromecast audio which sits on a high shelf always on. Obviously it will not work for that use case which is a shame given what a tidy package this is.


Once we have access to the DSP and the capability to re-program it - Maybe we can disable the command to the main CPU to put the Amplifier into sleep mode as it is dependant on a signal (or lack of a signal) through the DSP !!
 
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nodigital

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Hmmm, phone (Honor 20) says
1595056290559.png

Found a matrix of capabilities
1595056351761.png

If the table is correct, Aptx-HD isn't supported with this particular chipset. The QCC3008 datasheet doesn't mention HD either. The only codecs mentioned in the datasheet are: aptX, aptX Low Latency, SBC, and AAC audio codecs

Codec comparison

Within the phone there's a setting for the connected Bluetooth device to control the quality
1595056851890.png

I unselected as shown to turn off 'high quality' and the aptX HD disappeared from the paired device. Play some audio and its coming out the amp, albeit at the same low volume as the Echo connection. So, a device can connect and misunderstand the capabilities (Presume its being incorrectly advertised by the module) and the standard SBC profile has some inherent volume issue
 
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Toku

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Not limited to this unit, all amplifiers and DACs with BT function have the same structure. So I think the problem is with BT terminals or users that allow connections to devices that don't support aptX HD.
 

tmortimer

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@nodigital - Just got a reply from them suggesting turning off aptx-hd - which it looks like you already figured out. As far as your volume issue try enabling "Bluetooth absolute volume" from the same developer menu where you can control the codec. I had the problem you describe on my phone with _all_ bluetooth output devices, ie headphones, until I did that. Have not managed to get back to testing the amp yet with this new info so I'm not 100% sure that will resolve your issue.
 
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nodigital

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In my Honor 20 dev options its possible to change the codecs used (Only when its connected otherwise they're all disabled and note you need the 'High Sound Quality' option enabled from the regular menu)
1595268146502.png

Choosing the aptx works with correct volume level, same for AAC. Keep switching around the codecs unsurprisingly results in a failed connection :oops:
Unfortunately it auto reconnects back with aptx HD every time so currently its a workaround.
 

tmortimer

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Same experience here, got it all working, but it all resets the next time. Not great. On the plus side BT support was secondary for this application so I'm not heartbroken.
 

cyberzigot

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question on this amp. Does it come with 2 options 110V and 220V or does the unit support a range of voltage from 110-220V ?
 

tmortimer

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question on this amp. Does it come with 2 options 110V and 220V or does the unit support a range of voltage from 110-220V ?
"220v~50hz/110v-60hz" is listed under the socket

I've tried the audio quality again, this time with the single Passive Agreessive speaker that I have completed so far. It sounds pretty good and I can't wait to try it with the pair. I'm satisfied for this application - computer speakers. Opinion is subjective and not worthwhile to anyone but me of course ;)
 
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nodigital

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SigmaStudio files posted on 3e Audio site - https://www.3e-audio.com/finished-amp/tpa32xx-all-in-one-amplifier/

Interestingly, the input and output stages are not visible (Password protected) and just a template EQ stage is editable which should be sufficient for now...

Wooo... it works

So, editing the EQ block it has a selector. Select the bottom to apply the auto eq. You can make changes in real-time too.
1595867337968.png

Fixes the rather terrible frequency response of my desktop setup
1595867472212.png

Note the sample from REW was really low for some reason so I increased the offset gain which has a side effect of making it really loud

Apply auto eq five filters on limited bandwidth
1595867544523.png

Note this is done for each channel

And it generates this set
1595867579188.png

For a first attempt, sounds much better.

One thing I cant see is the compiler output so dont know how many instructions the filters have taken so not sure how many more can be added.
 
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Bushellj

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SigmaStudio files posted on 3e Audio site - https://www.3e-audio.com/finished-amp/tpa32xx-all-in-one-amplifier/

Interestingly, the input and output stages are not visible (Password protected) and just a template EQ stage is editable which should be sufficient for now...

Clearly they are listening to some of the comments as they have released a file that removed the Auto Standby function.

Just need the instructions now or this included in the RAR files that I have not yet opened ?
 

3eaudio

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@nodigital
Thanks for create this topic on our product discussion.
i would like give some comments here:
  • Bluetooth APTXHD issue - confirmed with module supplier it is F/W issue and can fixed by update configuration,we implement this change start from 20/July.
  • DSP source file not open fully to user due to risk of change other part that cause trouble on unit and also we do want protect our technical property,actually EQ tuning for their own system is what user should care so no need to go through other sections.
  • For ADAU1701,you need to see check the complier_output (located at net_list_out2 folder)Text file to check the resource usage.
  • option for Auto Standby function removed also available for some user to try but please note this will impact a little bit on thermal performance,this why we put into our design especially on TPA3255 high power one as idle power higher than TPA3250(almost double).
  • we keep tracking all user feedback and try our best supporting and hope all user enjoy our product.
thanks!
 

Bushellj

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SigmaStudio files posted on 3e Audio site - https://www.3e-audio.com/finished-amp/tpa32xx-all-in-one-amplifier/

Interestingly, the input and output stages are not visible (Password protected) and just a template EQ stage is editable which should be sufficient for now...

Wooo... it works

So, editing the EQ block it has a selector. Select the bottom to apply the auto eq. You can make changes in real-time too.


Hi Nodigital.

Was really pleased to see the information from 3e-Audio concerning these files and also the Bluetooth issues. They didn’t say whether existing amplifiers were capable of having the firmware updated or if this would apply only to amplifiers shipped from a new batch of manufacturing ?

Could you take us through what you use to create your REW file ? I have the necessary hardware - Behringer Measurement Microphone with a USB Enabled mixer - but would be interested to know what software you use for REW and any audio frequency generating generating software ??

When you said you can make the changes in “Real Time” can you explain what you mean ?

Many thanks
 

Bushellj

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@nodigital
Thanks for create this topic on our product discussion.
i would like give some comments here:
  • Bluetooth APTXHD issue - confirmed with module supplier it is F/W issue and can fixed by update configuration,we implement this change start from 20/July.
  • DSP source file not open fully to user due to risk of change other part that cause trouble on unit and also we do want protect our technical property,actually EQ tuning for their own system is what user should care so no need to go through other sections.
  • For ADAU1701,you need to see check the complier_output (located at net_list_out2 folder)Text file to check the resource usage.
  • option for Auto Standby function removed also available for some user to try but please note this will impact a little bit on thermal performance,this why we put into our design especially on TPA3255 high power one as idle power higher than TPA3250(almost double).
  • we keep tracking all user feedback and try our best supporting and hope all user enjoy our product.
thanks!

Hi 3e-Audio. Many thanks for your comments. It is so good to see you on this discussion group and being involved with the users of your excellent products.

Could I just clarify with regards the Bluetooth. Will the updated firmware only be available on newly shipped amplifiers or is there a way to update units that have already been shipped ?

Do you still plan to release a USBi interface module or should we just use “off the shelf” modules as demonstrated by Nodigital in his posts above ? These are only a few $$$ but a bit fiddly when it comes to cables !! The FreeDSP USBi board that used to be available for these “Programmers” seems to have disappeared from sale ??

Many thanks.
 
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nodigital

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Looking at the compiler output, its possible to see the number of instructions per sample taken out of a maximum of 1024. The default project has two EQ blocks, the auto and parametric. When built, its used 740 out of 1024 instructions per sample (@48KHz sampling)

I am only going to use the auto eq so removing the parametric saves 124 instructions per sample. I left the nx stereo switch in place for some on/off testing of the eq (Removing the switch so its in-autoeq-out would save another 66 instructions (Every component here has a cost...)):

1595919790265.png

Set up the auto EQ with 14 filters each
1595923512620.png

Note, when you hit Design Filters button with this many, it takes a very long time, like 20mins or so, to build the filters and it looks like its hung - be patient, have a cup of tea, let it finish, it'll display the Filters tab when done. If left and right is the same eq, you can save the completed EQ from one channel and load it in to the other channel.

With both channels complete, Link Compile Download then a quick look in the compiler_output.txt file in the subdirectory created by the compilation:

Code:
Analog Devices Graphical Compiler Tool for Sigma DSP build date =  2008


Done Reading Nodelist ...

Done reading file,

Done Reading Parameter list ...


################## Summary ########################
(Note: Estimates are based on a 48 kHz sample rate)

Number of instructions used (out of a possible 1024 ) = 896

Data RAM used (out of a possible 2048 ) = 403

Parameter RAM used (out of a possible 1024 ) = 238

So, with the modified EQ section above to save some instructions, 15 filters per channel is the maximum you can apply which should be sufficient to fix most setups encountered by this amp (Its made a big difference to my terrible speaker set up :D )
 

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nodigital

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Could you take us through what you use to create your REW file ?
When you said you can make the changes in “Real Time” can you explain what you mean ?
I use Room EQ Wizzard (REW) https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
Follow the instructions to set up and take a measurement - https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/rewoverview.html#top
Export the measurement data to a text file by choosing “File->Export->Export Measurement As Text”

I've created a command line tool to convert into the format needed by the SigmaStudio auto eq:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ACRXsu4agVKE2XzOwqgulOKPn-PO-ewG?usp=sharing

Run it with:
Code:
rew2mlsaa <filename>
eg
Code:
rew2mlsaa yourfile.txt

It'll create an output file with a _mlsaa as the name suffix, eg yourfile_mlsaa.txt output

When you're in the Auto EQ within SigmaStudio, on the Source response tab, load the converted file:
1595949815407.png


The 'real time' nature is that you can compile and send changes which respond immediately and some interactions are just changing data so its instantaneous, eg clicking the stereo switch radio buttons in the default project affects the signal routing immediately, then open up the parametric EQ and make live adjustments, hearing the difference as you move the eq points
1595954352070.png


Note that you can make any adjustments to suit by reconfiguring, for example auto eq flat and add a basic bass/treble if you desire some simple secondary adjustment, albeit at the potential of sound degradation
1596004612793.png


Disappointingly there are no front buttons to wire in for realtime adjustment. A set of four front buttons could have been bass/treble adjustment out of the box and reassignable so thereby making immediate use of the dsp.
 

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nodigital

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For anyone wondering how much of a difference the integrated DSP assists to make the amp sound better, the answer is 'a lot'. And that's better as in sorting out the real world problem of speakers and placement, not finessing a decimal point on the distortion scale.

Within SigmaStudio, you can set up a stimulus to send the REW measured frequency sweep from the speaker as an input and then visualise the output with a probe. On the left graph is the response from my desktop Missions (Truly awful) and on the right the 15 band auto eq output (still not great but perfectly adequate for a set of badly placed stand mount speakers)
1596275018237.png


SigmaStudio is a tweakers paradise for EQ. Its made such a big difference on a setup that wouldn't be achievable any other way that I'm very impressed with having this amount of configuration on a sub $100 amp.
 

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LiloLee

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As it stands this amp is of no interest. Why do manufacturers add in Bluetooth, which apparently sounds rubbish on this, when digital in (USB/TOSLINK/Digital) would be more useful, instead of having to hack the board as shown in this thread.
 
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