Records Outsell CD !

[Jimbob54]

That's fine.

Getting it wherever you can get it at the best price is rational consumerism.

I just have a hard time accepting Bandcamp's ethical marketing claims at face value given their margins.

Possibly. Yet a lot of artist run labels put them front and centre. That may be because getting pennies on the dollar from Bc is preferable to pennies on the 10000 dollar from streaming.

 

[watchnerd]

Not even tempted. For better or worse (and now that I’m getting long in the tooth, I start thinking l missed out on owning a “reely” valuable antique) I sold my B77 24 years ago when l bought a Sony Minidisc deck. Got rid of that one too, but I still hold on to my LPs.

All the Revox and Studer decks I've bought in the last few years have gone up in value substantially.

They're collectibles now.

 

[bigLP]

An interesting debate has been launched by what I only thought was a curiosity. Given two "archaic" physical mediums....the one that is harder and more expensive to get right is winning out /dying slower compared to CD which is empirically better (isn't it?). I do believe familiarity/ritual and habit/nostalgia/aesthetics all play into it. The business part of the discussion is interesting as well. I'll just say I'm ok paying for what I like. Stream,download or physical media.

 

[mansr]

There have been *hundreds* of classical record labels which have been and gone and whose output isn't available to stream, or is only on Spotify and so not available except in lossy form. Last week I bought a used CD that was recorded and issued by Gamut Classics. They produced maybe 10 different albums ever & then went out of business. If you want to hear those albums in high quality then you have to buy a used CD. That's just one, recent example. I find this is a regular, normal situation.

Sure, if you insist on one particular performance of a piece. Otherwise, there are usually dozens, if not hundreds, of recordings to choose from. None of them will be exactly what was heard at the premiere anyway, so I fail to see the point in looking further than any well-made recording with a competent orchestra.

 

[julian_hughes]

No doubt. Its the major reason I went to (lossless) streaming-

£9 for a CD
£more or less for a purely digital version of that CD
£15-20 per month for the same quality files, on tap, mobile or home- when I add 10-20 albums a month to my library? I might be a bit daft, but I'm not stupid.

I regularly buy used CDs in excellent condition for under £3. Typically for used CDs I pay between £2.50 and £6, very occasionally a little more. I estimate about £4 is the average price I pay. Also the city libraries here have many 1000s of CDs I can borrow at almost zero cost (about £20 per year). At the moment Presto Classical is having a 50% off sale on downloads of 24/96 Naxos label albums so I bought several download albums with digital booklet at about £3.50 each. I can play everything I buy on every device I own, losslessly and gaplessly, without interruption or being obliged to use one app or another. I can duplicate the files, back them up, store them as and where I prefer. If I don't buy any albums this month I pay zero. If Spotify did lossless I'd think about a premium subscription as they have the broadest selection but there are still albums I have sitting on my shelves and drives that just aren't out there to stream in high quality. This is why I prefer CDs and digital downloads over streaming.

 

[watchnerd]

Possibly. Yet a lot of artist run labels put them front and centre. That may be because getting pennies on the dollar from Bc is preferable to pennies on the 10000 dollar from streaming.

Sure, they get squeezed harder elsewhere.

Without a strong brand and a large fan base, you're going to get shafted anywhere you go.

I've had plenty of artists friends who groused about royalty rates, when the real problem was they either weren't that talented, had niche appeal, or were bad at marketing.

 

[Robin L]

Sure, if one has a fetish for limited production record labels that barely existed.

That's true in every genre. That's not a classical issue, per se.

But the readily available classical oeuvre is so large you really don't have to go that route if you don't want to.

I can get even obscure Japanese minimalist classical recordings or Stockhausen bootlegs online.

It all depends on whether you're net-casting for music or seeking just one pearl. Have to say I'm thrilled that Amazon Music has all those Astree titles I used to own.

 

[julian_hughes]

Sure, if you insist on one particular performance of a piece. Otherwise, there are usually dozens, if not hundreds, of recordings to choose from. None of them will be exactly what was heard at the premiere anyway, so I fail to see the point in looking further than any well-made recording with a competent orchestra.

It's perfectly normal to prefer particular performances and performers! The differences can be huge, encompassing totally different orchestra sizes, live vs studio, period instruments vs modern, high tempo vs slow tempo, different arrangements of the pieces, male vs female singers of the same parts, the enormously different acoustics of different concert halls, churches etc. It's not some eccentricity to want to hear the versions you like the best! If this wasn't the case we could just look at the scores or have them rendered by machine.

 

[watchnerd]

It's perfectly normal to prefer particular performances and performers! .

But this isn't a "classical problem."

People into musical theatre with particular casts, or indie garage bands that only ever recorded to cassette, have the same issue.

In fact, it's less bad in classical, because for the war horses, at least, there are other options.

 

[Jimbob54]

An interesting debate has been launched by what I only thought was a curiosity. Given two "archaic" physical mediums....the one that is harder and more expensive to get right is winning out /dying slower compared to CD which is empirically better (isn't it?). I do believe familiarity/ritual and habit/nostalgia/aesthetics all play into it. The business part of the discussion is interesting as well. I'll just say I'm ok paying for what I like. Stream,download or physical media.

I'm still not sure you're grasping the key message. Forget CD, it serves little to no purpose. Just think digital vs LP.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm still not sure you're grasping the key message. Forget CD, it serves little to no purpose. Just think digital vs LP.

+1

CD is just an inconvenient method of storing bits.

 

[julian_hughes]

Sure, if one has a fetish ...

Totally not the point. Nothing to do with a fetish. But if the version you like by the artists you like is from a defunct label then there it is. And some very serious record labels have gone out of business, not just tiny ones. For a lot of years you couldn't find *anything* digital from ASV after they went out of business. They were a big, important classical label with great performers and a great catalogue. Someone ended up with the rights to their catalogue and did nothing with it for many years. Finally their stuff is appearing for download and streaming but for years it might as well have been the other side of a black hole *unless you bought the used CD!*

 

[Jimbob54]

Sure, they get squeezed harder elsewhere.

Without a strong brand and a large fan base, you're going to get shafted anywhere you go.

I've had plenty of artists friends who groused about royalty rates, when the real problem was they either weren't that talented, had niche appeal, or were bad at marketing.

Ooh, now that's a juicy topic. Is success a proxy for talent? Or, rephrasing that equation, is good marketing a substitute for talent?

 

[julian_hughes]

+1

CD is just an inconvenient method of storing bits.

When it's the only medium in which those bits are offered for sale it starts to look very convenient indeed.

 

[watchnerd]

Totally not the point. Nothing to do with a fetish. But if the version you like by the artists you like is from a defunct label then there it is. And some very serious record labels have gone out of business, not just tiny ones. For a lot of years you couldn't find *anything* digital from ASV after they went out of business. They were a big, important classical label with great performers and a great catalogue. Someone ended up with the rights to their catalogue and did nothing with it for many years. Finally their stuff is appearing for download and streaming but for years it might as well have been the other side of a black hole *unless you bought the used CD!*

Again...this has nothing to do with classical.

Nor CDs, for that matter.

If what you want isn't available on CDs, well, then you have to look at other mediums....LPs, cassettes, 78s, RTR, etc.

I have live Philip Glass recordings that were never released commercially on any medium.

 

[watchnerd]

When it's the only medium in which those bits are offered for sale it starts to look very convenient indeed.

And what do you do when what you want isn't available on CD, either?

 

[watchnerd]

Ooh, now that's a juicy topic. Is success a proxy for talent? Or, rephrasing that equation, is good marketing a substitute for talent?

Good marketing is more important than talent.

"Video killed the radio star."

 

[Jimbob54]

Good marketing is more important than talent.

"Video killed the radio star."

For the bank balance of those on the supply side, yes. Not so for the ears.

 

[StefaanE]

Ooh, now that's a juicy topic. Is success a proxy for talent? Or, rephrasing that equation, is good marketing a substitute for talent?

I guess ”The Monkeys” show the value of marketing, but there still was a lot of talent (even with the performers). People who become popular do have talents, no doubt (cf. Yuja Wang, who certainly is an excellent pianist), but not all talented people become famous...

 

[julian_hughes]

And what do you do when what you want isn't available on CD, either?

Non sequitur. Really pointless, not interesting.

Q: Hey what do you do when the music you want to hear hasn't even been written or recorded yet?
A: Add the person who asks this kind of stuff to your ignore list maybe.