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PS Audio Noise Harvester AC Cleaner Review

A-Shah

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Hmm,
I got two of these on sale for a $ 100.00 from music direct a couple of years ago ! along with a 5 sets of PS audio classic outlets tend to agree with @amirm , Since I do have a dedicated line for 2 channel audio it is GR8 for talking points when one has audiophile listeners,come home to listen !:p:p Beats me?if it does anything beyond blinking blue light also have a ISI Audio AC i purifier now that does something except sometimes I think it seems to act more like attenuate the sound maybe it could just be my personal perception :p
 

solderdude

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maybe it could just be my personal perception

Not 'maybe' as it does the same as the PS audio. Non consequential for audio devices. The groundloop detection can be useful though.
 

egellings

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Looks like little more than a simple hi-pass filter and a Tranzorb device placed across the line and a blinker circuit.
 

CivilWizard

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Noise on a circuit and measurable/audible performance are different.

Those Entech wide-band analyzers are pretty easily found on eBay and provide one method for comparison. You can see and hear the effects of a line conditioner as it converts the broadband noise into audible noise through manual gain. How this translates into actual performance is different.

Years ago (2001 or 2002-ish), while living in a large apartment complex with "dirty AC", I was able to do a reproducible test where an overclocked gaming PC pushed too far could go into a scenario where
a) plugging into a regular surge protector would cause a system lock-up when running a stress test benchmark
b) plugging into a Monster Stage 3 v.2.1 filter prevented the same system lock up.

It was a very unique set of circumstances, but was reproducible. At the time, PC power supplies had not yet undergone their renaissance and ripple/voltage sag was a real problem and overclocking was still the realm of "hardcore gamers/enthusiasts" rather than available through Dell/Alienware.

Since then, however, the main role of line conditioners are high-performance surge protection and/or control for soft power-on or adding 12v switched outlets IMHO. As I mentioned earlier, I have sent Amir an Audioquest PowerQuest3 for measurement and I expect it to have the same outcome as the PS Audio Noise Harvester.

I can reproduce something similar right now. I get noise from my AVR preouts (front and sub) ONLY when I run an intense 3D game. This only became a problem after I upgraded the graphics card which draws more power. I believe the issue to be the entire computer PSU polluting the power being delivered to the AVR on the same wall outlet. I will try plugging the PC into my surge/conditioner and see if it helps, but I am also planning to try some ferrite cores on the PC cables. If I'm not mistaken from trying to follow this thread, this would be considered common mode noise or ground-loop issue? I can 'filter/isolate' the front preouts using $15 RCA level isolator which stops the noise. I would prefer to be able to filter all harmonics or at least dampen them at the source to prevent harmful effects to other components. Very interesting discussion. Thanks.
 

audio_tony

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I can reproduce something similar right now. I get noise from my AVR preouts (front and sub) ONLY when I run an intense 3D game. This only became a problem after I upgraded the graphics card which draws more power. I believe the issue to be the entire computer PSU polluting the power being delivered to the AVR on the same wall outlet.<snip>.

That could be airborne (RF / EMI) interference. Have you tried plugging the AVR into another socket far away?

If the interference goes when you've done that then it is mains borne, but if it remains it's likely EMI.

How far away from the computer and monitor is the AVR?

What video connections are you using from the PC? HDMI, display port or DVI / VGA?

How long are your monitor cables?

Do you have anything running from the PC to the AVR? (for audio / video)
 

CivilWizard

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That could be airborne (RF / EMI) interference. Have you tried plugging the AVR into another socket far away?

If the interference goes when you've done that then it is mains borne, but if it remains it's likely EMI.

How far away from the computer and monitor is the AVR?

What video connections are you using from the PC? HDMI, display port or DVI / VGA?

How long are your monitor cables?

Do you have anything running from the PC to the AVR? (for audio / video)

Thank you for the suggestion. The AVR is being fed optical DTS signal from an HTO Claro sound card. After some more experimentation, I can confirm the noise is coming in from the third prong ground from the wall behind the media center only when the computer's power supply is being taxed. The noise is actually not entering the circuit from the AVR (which has only two prong cable), but is coming through my external subwoofer amp Rockville RPA-12 ground connection to the wall, going back up the XLR to RCA cable into the AVR, and then out the front pre-outs of the AVR powered by other separate amps. I can hear the ground noise with both sub amp+AVR switched off, AVR unplugged from power, and only Rockville amp plugged into wall. When I "lift" the ground to the sub amp with a 2-prong adapter, the noise is gone. If I use extension cable and plug in the amp to a different room, the noise is gone. When I close the game on the computer, the noise is gone. The noise also changes pitch depending on how dark/bright the scene being displayed is.

Short of building a new computer or replacing the PSU what are my options to filter or isolate the computer power from the wall? I fear the PSU may be nearing the end of it's life. Is it accurate to say that a stressed PC power supply could cause harmonic distortion in the ground circuit? Should I float the computer using isolation transformer? Would ferrite chokes on the power supply cable make any difference or is the only option an external common mode choke? Thanks!

P.S.
This link seems to confirm the power consumption variability of the GTX 1070.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-8gb-pascal-performance,4585-7.html
 
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Paperdragons

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio Noise Harvester and AC Cleaner. It is on kind loan from a member and sells for $99.

The harvester is a bit bigger and uglier than typical phone charger:

View attachment 69147

Claim to fame is that AC noise is captured gradually and then discharged all of a sudden into the LED on the right to get rid of it:

View attachment 69148

One wonders why a sudden discharge wouldn't be bad for your sound versus a gradual/constant thing!

As to discharging "all the unwanted noise" company shows no specifications or measurements to demonstrate that. It is trivial to measure noise so not do that?

Also, I see no indication of safety regulation on the device and on the website. It is one thing to lack such marks for low voltage devices but an entirely different matter when you plug something in to mains and leave it there. A safety flaws could lead to fire or worse. What would this thing do for example if a powerful external surge arrives? Does it open up gracefully or short and cause smoke?

Does It Do Anything?
A lot of tweaks sold to audiophiles make claims that follow the laws of another universe so we can't use our tools in this universe to test them. Here though, we can. AC mains is at 50 or 60 Hz. A filter better not touch these frequencies or you would loose the very energy you need for our device to function! As a result, filtering will be at some higher frequency, often well above hearing range making them useless for improving audio.

To determine the filter range, I set my Audio Precision to produce 21 volts output and captured and plotted that using very wideband response (1 MHz). I then inserted the Harvester in the middle to see the effect:

View attachment 69149

Hey! There is some good news here. There is filtering that occurs in the audio band and indeed, we have reduction of frequencies above 500 Hz with best response (naturally) at higher frequencies. There is a resonance causing that peaking but otherwise, we have about 20 dB of reduction. The harvester was blinking away happily saying it was doing its job.

Would this do us some good? Well, let's look at the spectrum of AC in the power strip that I use to power my analyzer, the PC and anything I review. To not kill myself or the analyzer, I used a simple AC transformer to bring the voltage down. Otherwise everything is the same:

View attachment 69150

In blue is the spectrum of the AC mains. Instead of the ideal single 60 Hz tone, we have a myriad of other tones. Highest peak is nearly -30 dB. This result in a THD+N of nearly 3%.

Once I plug in the Harvester, we get the graph in red. Yes, it almost looks identical because as I showed before, it doesn't do anything below 500 Hz. Unfortunately that spectrum between 60 and 500 Hz has most of our distortion and noise. What is above that has far lower amplitude.

Even in high frequencies we don't get much attenuation because the amount of energy harvested and dissipated by this box is too little. Imagine what it takes to power an LED for a fraction of a second. It is probably in microamps which would mean nothing in grand scheme of things. No wonder then that THD+N doesn't change (the number varies fair bit so don't focus on decimal places).

In addition to frequency domain, we can also look at the waveform in "time domain:"

View attachment 69155

We can easily see the effects of 3% distortion in how the tops of the sine wave are distorted (flattened mostly). Sadly, the Harvester does nothing to turn our ugly sine waves into pretty ones. With or without, the shape is the same.

At this point we have fully characterized the device. It is a low pass filter with very negligible effectiveness. But maybe it performs some magic that escapes these measurements but shows up in audio devices so let's test them with and without the Harvester.

AC Cleaner Effect on Audio Performance
Let's start with the most sensitive and highest performance "audio" device I have which is my Audio Precision APx555 analyzer. I put it in the loopback mode and measured its own distortion+noise over time. After a bit of time, I plugged in the Harvester and then took it out. This is the results:

View attachment 69151

As you see, it made no difference whatsoever even though we are measuring distortion and noise that is whopping -123.5 dB below full level! Why doesn't it care? Because it designed with the assumption that AC mains is never clean or remotely so. All the necessary filtering is performed internally which is a lot easier when dealing with low voltage DC, than high voltage mains AC.

OK, so that is a $28,000 analyzer so let's step down to a much more reasonable $500 Topping A90 which I recently reviewed:

View attachment 69152

The harvester blinking away saying it is doing something. But again, in super sensitive measurements representing far lower threshold than our hearing, there is no effect on noise+distortion at all.

Let's go even cheaper to $99 JDS Labs Atom DAC:
View attachment 69153

We can see how sensitive our measurement system is in detecting very small variations in performance of Atom DAC. Clearly there is some "noise" there to clean up but the Harvester does nothing for us.

Maybe we shouldn't use high-performance audio devices. For that, let's use the Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC:

View attachment 69154

Not... one... thing... different! Surely the Harvester should have gotten lucky by now and did something. But it did not.

Listening Tests
Folks always come back and say "but I hear a difference, you should use your ears." So that is what I did. On the same computer used for above, I use an RME ADI-2 DAC V2. Into that I use an Ether CX headphone. I plugged in and unplugged the Harvester multiple times but could not detect any difference whatsoever.

If you are hearing a difference, turn away from your power strip, have a loved one plug the device in and out at random times and have you raise your hand when you think it is plugged in. After just a minute or two, you will get the right answer which is there is no audible difference. Your brain concludes that there is less noise because you are told there is less noise with this device and hence you "hear it." Lack of change in audio waveform reaching your ears be damned.

Conclusions
In some sense it is a relief to find an audio tweak that we can analyzer and characterize what it does. It indeed filters "some noise." That filter is too small to begin with. But importantly is of no use because your good audio devices already filter that noise. Imagine how bad my audio system would sound if the 3% harmonic distortion and noise was let through! Which designer you cherish would sell you an audio device that doesn't do such filtering when it is so easy and cheap to do???

Remember, the company could easily measure noise and show the improvement with their own or other companies' products. But they have not. You wouldn't take a drug with no verification of its efficacy. Why would you trust a company to sell you something to "clean your AC" where no such evidence is not at all?

On top of that, you have a mains operated device which no third-party verification that is safe to be plugged in. As such, it is illegal to sell in probably every western countries if not others.

Be a smart audiophile. Don't put your guard down just because there are positive testimonials for such devices. I don't care how useless an audio device is. Some people will say it performs miracle. These people don't know how to perform a simple, bias controlled test to verify the truth. Don't listen to them. Don't put your guard down.

And before you say everyone who owns one likes it, watch this:


-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

June is turning out to be an expensive month. I will probably be close to shipping back 500 pounds of gear and have spent nearly $1,500 on gear. I can afford it but will feel entirely more positive if you all donate it! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Great review! PS audio has seemed like a budget NAGRA for a while now.
 

Boomzilla

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Well, @amirm - It seems unfair to test an item, verify that it does exactly what the manufacturer claims it does (attenuates noise above 10k Hz.), and then damn the designer because it doesn't do what YOU want it to do (clean up AC mains noise sufficiently to make an audible improvement) - especially when you admit that the components being powered already do that.

Really?
 

JohnYang1997

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Well, @amirm - It seems unfair to test an item, verify that it does exactly what the manufacturer claims it does (attenuates noise above 10k Hz.), and then damn the designer because it doesn't do what YOU want it to do (clean up AC mains noise sufficiently to make an audible improvement) - especially when you admit that the components being powered already do that.

Really?
Neither does it do anything meaningful to the equipment connected to the cleaned AC Nor does it do what's claimed 'all unwanted noise'. What the heck is it?
 

KaiserSoze

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Well, @amirm - It seems unfair to test an item, verify that it does exactly what the manufacturer claims it does (attenuates noise above 10k Hz.), and then damn the designer because it doesn't do what YOU want it to do (clean up AC mains noise sufficiently to make an audible improvement) - especially when you admit that the components being powered already do that.

Really?

I'm not entirely certain, but I can't help wondering if you have maybe blurred the distinction between attenuating high-frequency noise as it is found in the house wiring and at the input of powered audio components, vs. attenuating high-frequency noise superimposed on the DC outputs of the power supply section of any given audio component. To my way of thinking, the manufacturer's claim, whether explicit or implicit, was that the device reduces the amount of high-frequency noise superimposed on the DC outputs of the power supply sections of audio components. Otherwise, it doesn't have any effect on audio, in which case it wouldn't make sense, therefore this must have been what the manufacturer claimed. But I do not think that Amir or anyone else has discovered that this device or any similar device has any effect at reducing the amount of high-frequency noise superimposed on the DC outputs of power supply sections of audio components. In other words, it does not do what the manufacturer implicitly claims that it does, and Amir did not report that it does exactly what the manufacturer claims that it does.

To be honest I struggle to understand the agenda or motivation of someone who would write something like what you wrote. I just don't get it. The little contraption is very obviously bunkum, and as such I do not understand why anyone would have any objection, when another person simply points out the obvious.

Any why would it work? At the final passive stage of any AC-to-DC power supply, prior to regulation if regulation is used, the voltage that has already undergone rectification is filtered, using big capacitors that are capable of smoothing out essentially all of the vestige of the 60 Hz AC house supply. Given that this filtering stage is fully capable of suppressing the wildly undulating voltage coming from the rectification stage, such that the remaining ripple is so small as to be deemed insignificant, by what reasoning would it be possible for the vastly weaker noise present on the AC house supply to make it through this filtering step without being squashed to oblivion? It makes no sense. There is no possible way for this little gimmicky device to have any beneficial effect on the sound quality of anything. It is obvious at face value that the contraption is bunkum. Given that it is obviously bunkum, why should anyone be expected to refrain from saying so? Does anyone really believe that a little gadget of this sort could do something that wouldn't be done by the big capacitors you find in the power supply sections of high-power amplifiers? If that were the case, then why wouldn't the manufacturers of high-power amplifiers just put one of these little gizmos in the power supply section and save the cost of the big capacitors? I mean, come on, seriously?
 
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amirm

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Well, @amirm - It seems unfair to test an item, verify that it does exactly what the manufacturer claims it does (attenuates noise above 10k Hz.), and then damn the designer because it doesn't do what YOU want it to do (clean up AC mains noise sufficiently to make an audible improvement) - especially when you admit that the components being powered already do that.

Really?
Well, what is unfair is not reading the review carefully, nor the company advertising:

index.php


"All the unwanted noise" is not above 10 kHz. Plenty of it is below that. And because it doesn't do this, it is false advertising, misleading and conduct unbecoming an honest audio manufacturer.
 

GDK

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No surprise that all you haters are against the Noise Harvester, but all I can say is that the Noise Farmer that lives down the road from me swears by his at this time of year...
 

KaiserSoze

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No surprise that all you haters are against the Noise Harvester, but all I can say is that the Noise Farmer that lives down the road from me swears by his at this time of year...

Well, it's a gittin' close to that time of year when workin' men start thinkin' 'bout puttin' up noise for the winter.
 

Boomzilla

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The fourth post in this thread quotes PS Audio's description of the Noise Harvester as "A simple product designed to reduce power line noise above 10kHz." I based my post on that. No, I haven't read all the PS Audio advertising for the device (or all 11 pages of this thread), and yes, "all the unwanted noise" is a much broader claim and significantly different from "all the unwanted noise above 10kHz."

I read the product description on the PS Audio website just now, and they do, indeed, claim to reduce "all the unwanted noise." So the description is fraudulent.

I'm nonetheless disappointed by the posts in the thread claiming that because this product is superfluous (it is) and falsely-described (it is) that ALL PS-Audio products are similarly without merit and that Mr. Paul McGowan is a snake-oil peddler. These assumptions are without merit. One bad apple does not not spoil the basket in this case. PS Audio, to the best of my knowledge, offers some fine products. The Noise Harvester, however, is not one of them.
 

Veri

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I'm nonetheless disappointed by the posts in the thread claiming that because this product is superfluous (it is) and falsely-described (it is) that ALL PS-Audio products are similarly without merit and that Mr. Paul McGowan is a snake-oil peddler. These assumptions are without merit. One bad apple does not not spoil the basket in this case. PS Audio, to the best of my knowledge, offers some fine products. The Noise Harvester, however, is not one of them.
You've gotta admit it does not bode well for the rest of PS products if his "ethics" allow a product like this to exist, and promote people to buy it.
 
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