Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[Obiden]

To my ears, the X3700 is a no brainer. I sold my top of the line LG soundbar to buy the X3700. The worst decision was buying a soundbar and I am glad I kept my PSB Alpha speakers around which right now working great with the X3700. I might add a bargain subwoofer along the way.

 

[Urgo]

I am between the 3700 and 4700 and having a hard time deciding.

my speakers are 4 ohm Emotiva C2, T2s and E2s and planning to add some height speakers to do a 7.1.2 set up.

initially, I plan to power all the speakers with just the receiver and in the future, might add a 3 channel amp for the LCR speakers, and add 2 more height speakers to take it to 7.1.4

will I notice a significant improvement in sound going to the 4700 while powering all speakers vs the 3700?

how much improvement would I notice when eventually adding an external amp like the emotiva xpa-3 (probably won’t be for a couple of years) for the LCR speakers?

room is 16x12 ft and use mostly for movies and gaming.

If you plan to amplify all channels, I would not hesitate, at least the x4700h, especially if your speakers are 4 ohms, the extra power of the 4700 will come in handy.

Because you will need power to drive speakers with that impedance. Fortunately those speakers have high sensitivity, but you might be able to fall short with both models if you amplify those speakers using the receiver's 9 channels of amplification. Especially if you like to turn up the volume.
And I do not advise you to select an impedance lower than 8 ohms on the receiver, even if your speakers are 4. It is possible that by selecting 4 oh, the receiver will heat up less, but limit the amplification power even more.

Using an external power amplifier will free up the receiver, but if you increase the number of speakers and the receiver continues to amplify 9 channels, there will be no noticeable difference.
As he points out, the best option is to amplify the fronts with the power amp assigning 11.1 channels in the Denon 4700 configuration, or to use an external amplifier with a greater number of channels.

 

[C19580]

If you plan to amplify all channels, I would not hesitate, at least the x4700h, especially if your speakers are 4 ohms, the extra power of the 4700 will come in handy.

Because you will need power to drive speakers with that impedance. Fortunately those speakers have high sensitivity, but you might be able to fall short with both models if you amplify those speakers using the receiver's 9 channels of amplification. Especially if you like to turn up the volume.
And I do not advise you to select an impedance lower than 8 ohms on the receiver, even if your speakers are 4. It is possible that by selecting 4 oh, the receiver will heat up less, but limit the amplification power even more.

Using an external power amplifier will free up the receiver, but if you increase the number of speakers and the receiver continues to amplify 9 channels, there will be no noticeable difference.
As he points out, the best option is to amplify the fronts with the power amp assigning 11.1 channels in the Denon 4700 configuration, or to use an external amplifier with a greater number of channels.

thanks a lot for the input!

is it worth it to also amplify the center channel? I read a lot about amplifying the LR channels but I thought most of the audio and dialogue came from the center.

if I get a 3 channel amp, my plan would be to amplify the LCR channels and “free up” the internal receiver’s amplifiers to handle the less demanding surrounds and height speakers. Does this approach make sense? A lot of this is new to me. Thanks!

 

[Anterantz]

SINAD is a small factor for the sound and hardly inaudible, however it’s measurable and considering two AVRs without much difference in functions (like X3500H and X3600H), returning the worse is always the best option. I was confused between Denon and Marantz AVRs because many people say Marantz HDAM circuit makes music better and charge more for that hardly audible feature, but ASR proved that’s nonsense.

Now we look at your example, between a denon 4300 and arcam avr20, they have a very different main factor: Audyseey vs Dirac. The difference is totally audible and bad SINAD performance of arcam is outshined by room correction. Denon is not a better AVR, it’s a better engineered AVR with good SINDAD. If you love Dirac, no need to return it for a better SINAD, however if you don’t use Dirac, there is no way we will pay 2k+ for Arcam.

That’s where ASR reviews come to help your AVR choice before buying expensive stuff for people with limited budget (like me). I’d use up all my money and totally pay for Dirac sound, but seeing the bad SINAD here, I’d hold up money and wait until I see a more reasonable dirac AVR because it may be my last purchase.

However if you’re rich, just buy the best AVR with the best technology and best sound to your ear, and replace by another better one later.

Also, ASR reviews is also a drive for manufactures to do better if they see customer returns their products. Maybe someday we will see an Arcam AVR with better SINAD thanks to armir and all the people in this forum.

I understand everything you say, but those of us who pay a premium for the top-of-the-range model look for something different and denon / marantz cannot offer you the same calibration as a mid-range because why have a better receiver with better components and dac if later Audyseey is the same and will it apply the same filters as for example a 4700?

I'm sorry but in the days that run and the great company that is Denon / Marantz are very old with their room correction.

 

[Urgo]

thanks a lot for the input!

is it worth it to also amplify the center channel? I read a lot about amplifying the LR channels but I thought most of the audio and dialogue came from the center.

if I get a 3 channel amp, my plan would be to amplify the LCR channels and “free up” the internal receiver’s amplifiers to handle the less demanding surrounds and height speakers. Does this approach make sense? A lot of this is new to me. Thanks!

The R / L front amps of the avr can be "turned off" on the x4700h using the 11.1 amp assignment in the setup, as I explained, and connecting the preout outputs to the external amp. There is only that possibility and the disconnection of all channels.

However, externally amplifying the center too will release more of the load on the receiver, and you may need it with 4 ohm speakers.

 

[Chuchu]

I understand everything you say, but those of us who pay a premium for the top-of-the-range model look for something different and denon / marantz cannot offer you the same calibration as a mid-range because why have a better receiver with better components and dac if later Audyseey is the same and will it apply the same filters as for example a 4700?

I'm sorry but in the days that run and the great company that is Denon / Marantz are very old with their room correction.

Well then I’m not the person to answer your question. If I have 4k usd to spend on AVR, I’d buy Arcam with Dirac rather than a Denon X6700H or X8500h. Maybe the customers are experts with room correction and Dirac is unecessary, or people likes pure music, so paying more for future proof features and better SINAD in top of the line Denon AVR is worth more than venturing into Arcam.

 

[Anterantz]

Well then I’m not the person to answer your question. If I have 4k usd to spend on AVR, I’d buy Arcam with Dirac rather than a Denon X6700H or X8500h. Maybe the customers are experts with room correction and Dirac is unecessary, or people likes pure music, so paying more for future proof features and better SINAD in top of the line Denon AVR is worth more than venturing into Arcam.

The problem friend is money, an arcam costs 3600 euros in Spain and my 8500 exposure with two years of guarantee cost me 2300 euros there is a large money that I currently cannot afford ... my question is why those who pass to nad / arcam say they hear sounds, details in movies that before with denon / marantz did not hear? Is it all thanks to dirac? Or really the cleanliness and clarity that these avr + dirac give make those sounds perceive them?

 

[BsdKurt]

However, externally amplifying the center too will release more of the load on the receiver, and you may need it with 4 ohm speakers.

This part is not correct. In 11 channel mode, only one pair of channels can be disconnected from the internal amps, typically the front L/R. The rest of the pre-outs will be connected to internal application so using external amplification for the center channel will not reduce the load on the receiver.

 

[tecnogadget]

The problem friend is money, an arcam costs 3600 euros in Spain and my 8500 exposure with two years of guarantee cost me 2300 euros there is a large money that I currently cannot afford ... my question is why those who pass to nad / arcam say they hear sounds, details in movies that before with denon / marantz did not hear? Is it all thanks to dirac? Or really the cleanliness and clarity that these avr + dirac give make those sounds perceive them?

There are several reasons for the claims of more details in movies heard.
There is always the possibility of introducing placebo effect or bias in subjective impressions.
Its very likely that SINAD of 80dB vs 90dB vs 100dB difference won’t be really audible or at least not that detrimental, as of today is just an engineering metric you wish the manufacturer stand for since there is no excuse to do it wrong and you are paying a lot of money for this equipments.
The NAD’s and Arcam’s reviewed in this site shows bad SINAD and other performance metrics. So it is VERY likely that such “detail” heard in movies is due DIRAC doing a much better job than Audyssey or NoRoomEQ. “More sound & detail” is exactly what you get when you properly eliminate room modes/standing waves, sustained bass notes, and use 1dB per octave downward slope from 20Hz to 20kHz as a target curve for your In Room response.

 

[Chuchu]

The problem friend is money, an arcam costs 3600 euros in Spain and my 8500 exposure with two years of guarantee cost me 2300 euros there is a large money that I currently cannot afford ... my question is why those who pass to nad / arcam say they hear sounds, details in movies that before with denon / marantz did not hear? Is it all thanks to dirac? Or really the cleanliness and clarity that these avr + dirac give make those sounds perceive them?

For that price you can buy Arcam AVR10 and try it in return window. The different in sound is because of room correction, all the people claim Dirac is much better than Audyssey.

Well X8500H is a completely different beast, it has 13 amplifiers with output to 150W to 2 channels (compared to AVR10 80W), so it's your choice. I believe you can hear better music with Arcam IF you only listen to 2 channel music, your speaker is not difficult to drive or you have external amplifiers. If you have a 13.2 sound system, X8500H is your only choice.

Arcam AVR10 has similar power to my Denon X3400H, and comparing the price, it's such a huge difference.

 

[Urgo]

This part is not correct. In 11 channel mode, only one pair of channels can be disconnected from the internal amps, typically the front L/R. The rest of the pre-outs will be connected to internal application so using external amplification for the center channel will not reduce the load on the receiver.

Thank you.
It is true, I have expressed myself wrong. You can only disconnect the front R / L, or all channels, from the amplification.
But in the latter case you would have to externally amplify all the channels.

As I said there are no other possibilities of disconnection.

 

[C19580]

Thank you.
It is true, I have expressed myself wrong. You can only disconnect the front R / L, or all channels, from the amplification.
But in the latter case you would have to externally amplify all the channels.

As I said there are no other possibilities of disconnection.

thanks guys!

I guess I logically thought that if I power the center with an external amp instead of the receiver, that it should make the total available amplification power distribute over a lower number of speakers, thus increasing the available amplification power for those speakers, but it seems that’s not the case. I admit I don’t really understand why yet.

Are there any decent value for money 3 channel amps you’d recommend?
I’ve been looking at the Emotiva and Monoprice 3 channel amps but at around $1200, it’s a bit more than I’m going to be able to spend for a while, on top of the $1200-1700 for the receiver

 

[Urgo]

thanks guys!

I guess I logically thought that if I power the center with an external amp instead of the receiver, that it should make the total available amplification power distribute over a lower number of speakers, thus increasing the available amplification power for those speakers, but it seems that’s not the case. I admit I don’t really understand why yet.

Are there any decent value for money 3 channel amps you’d recommend?
I’ve been looking at the Emotiva and Monoprice 3 channel amps but at around $1200, it’s a bit more than I’m going to be able to spend for a while, on top of the $1200-1700 for the receiver

Three channel amps not much to choose from, I can't tell you and we would deviate from the purpose of this thread.

I imagine you may be aware by now, but it would be important to unload your receiver as much as possible, use a powered subwoofer, and set all your speakers small.
This will free your receiver from amplifying the more complicated frequencies. And as I already explained to you, leave the avr selector at 8 Oh, because if you lower it, it will limit the power more, even if the user manual specifies otherwise.

Our concern is that it has enough power for what it raises, use all the channels with 4 Oh speakers, and following these steps you will obtain all the available power.

 

[peng]

thanks guys!

I guess I logically thought that if I power the center with an external amp instead of the receiver, that it should make the total available amplification power distribute over a lower number of speakers, thus increasing the available amplification power for those speakers, but it seems that’s not the case. I admit I don’t really understand why yet.

I don't recall anyone saying that it is not the case. It has to be, at least to some extent.

Are there any decent value for money 3 channel amps you’d recommend?

That depends on your definition of "decent value for money". Some will consider $1,250 for a Monolith 200WX3 is a good value, and some will consider $799 for 3 Outlaw M2200 (when on sale), or even at $399X3 for the new M2220 a good value. If you wait, sooner or later the M2220 will likely offer the buy 2 get one free deal too.

Edit: The M2220 are actually on sale now, $1197 (or $999, website is very confusing, different $ on different pages) for 3 or $699 for 2 but there is a shipping charge.

https://outlawaudio.com/shop/index.php?id_product=45&rewrite=model-2220&controller=product

If interested, you should call them and negotiate because of their confusing advertisement.

 

[Chromatischism]

No one's mentioned how Denon removed the front HDMI input making it an almost non-starter for those of us who hook up a laptop often for REW or other uses.

 

[DrewMcG]

I am between the 3700 and 4700 and having a hard time deciding.

my speakers are 4 ohm Emotiva C2, T2s and E2s and planning to add some height speakers to do a 7.1.2 set up.

initially, I plan to power all the speakers with just the receiver and in the future, might add a 3 channel amp for the LCR speakers, and add 2 more height speakers to take it to 7.1.4

will I notice a significant improvement in sound going to the 4700 while powering all speakers vs the 3700?

how much improvement would I notice when eventually adding an external amp like the emotiva xpa-3 (probably won’t be for a couple of years) for the LCR speakers?

room is 16x12 ft and use mostly for movies and gaming.

I have an older pair of Dynaudio towers for Front L/R (Audience 72; 4 ohm), and chose the x4700h for the extra "headroom" (power). With 9 channels driven, in gives me all the sound I want in a small/medium living room--though I do turn it up a bit. I have no idea whether the x3700h would handle my use case adequately (I suspect it would, but did not want to risk it)--as Amir's power tests show. I do think the x3700h is a better "value"--and even bought one for my son as a b-day present. The pleasant surprise with the x4700h is that I find Auro 3d/2d to be preferable for upmixing stereo content for most streaming t.v. (YouTube TV and regular YouTube)--which I access via 2017 Nvidia Shield. As others have mentioned, you can get past the lack of a front HDMI port on the x3700h by simply installing a spare HDMI 2.0b (18gbs) cable and routing it to the side of the unit, to unfurl when needed.

I got a good deal on the x3700h using a contact shared on one of these forums. I paid list for the x4700h immediately after its release, and did not try to get a discount. If its any indication, I have no regret spending $700 more for my x4700h, which performs wonderfully. (NB: This might have something to do with my feeling of relief at not having spent $700 more than I did for the x6700h!)

 

[theory]

No one's mentioned how Denon removed the front HDMI input making it an almost non-starter for those of us who hook up a laptop often for REW or other uses.

Depends on your setup but I plan to run a long hdmi cable from the back for computer hookup. I do prefer the look of the 4700 but can’t justify the price difference at this point in time for myself.

 

[peng]

No one's mentioned how Denon removed the front HDMI input making it an almost non-starter for those of us who hook up a laptop often for REW or other uses.

But I did, probably more than once, and don't think I was first.., you missed it all! I guess.. That's typical of ASR, too many pages too soon so many things/posts went unnoticed. Some one is going to say no one mentions this soon as they would likely miss your post too lol!!

 

[tecnogadget]

No one's mentioned how Denon removed the front HDMI input making it an almost non-starter for those of us who hook up a laptop often for REW or other uses.

Yeahh that’s a total bummer since the X3600 did have one.
I guess people with closed cabinets will have to leave a spare coiled HDMI connected to the back that is long enough for confortable laptop on the couch...

 

[peng]

I know it is ugly, but it should work right?