ATC SCM19 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[5th element]

I have 'tinkered' minimally with my Macs, but to me they are a tool, and I do not personally want to study the workings of a tool in the same way that I do not want to know when using a pair of scissors, what their steel alloy is comprised of, the rake angle of the cutting blades, or the thread used to hold the blades together.

This isn't necessary for a PC either.

"The hard drives were all crap unless you bought SCSI or enterprise " seems to support a superiority in Macs, they used SCSI drives.

No they didn't. Some probably did but lots didn't.

"The only thing a Mac person saw was the ugly PC cases and assumed their Macs were better ", so presumably you have a statistical analysis of the psychology and sociology of the processes by which the public chooses.
I again, have before me some evidence of Mac superiority.

Actually this is true. Lots of people have bought Macs just off of looks alone. The original iMac is proof enough of this.

I have evidence before me, as in the past of superiority in Mac builds compared with the PC I am using now.

In terms of reliability none of my PCs have failed except one WiFi card in 25 years of PC building and use.

The mouse I am using now is a Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 3000, and when I bought it, I bought three because of one particular feature, the magnifier facility. The casing clicks such that it is very similar to the actual mouse click because the castings/vac-forming are so poor in tolerance, and it creaks. The Apple mouse is beautifully made and functions succinctly, and, MS have stopped supporting the magnify function, and so I have lost that facility.

Then buy a good quality mouse for heaven's sake.

In contrast, I felt sad at the result, and do not gloat at the misfortune of others, especially in this case, despite my reservations about ATC, I have an affection for them and an admiration for much of what they do.

What I feel sad for is the unreasonable bashing of a company based off of one review alone, Amir's obvious dismissal/dislike of small, bass light speakers lacking in baffle step compensation. And some unwanted bashing by one particular individual.

First, we've seen that other ATC reviews of their bigger speakers would do far more favourably than these. Second is that Amir needs to add caveats to his recommendations. As in I cannot recommend these speakers for large rooms with free from wall placement. But if you have limited space and need something that will work up against a wall then these will work well. He should really test the small speakers in a 2.5x3 meter room. Then third is all about the ATC dome bashing where all the measurements I've seen show stellar distortion performance.

 

[617]

Did pre Copeland MacOS have a terminal? I seem to remember you could get one in System 7.

 

[Chrise36]

And also the FR is the easiest to deal with nowdays.Also a flat FR in low volume would make the speaker bass and treble heavy in high volume so too much fuss for nothing since you would always need eq.A cheap resonating cabinet or high distortion driver are bigger problems imo.

 

[mjwin]

[...]The problem is that ATC has a more subtle cult of personality that's based on a superficial commitment to engineering, which is not blatantly voodoo. And the flawed heuristic that large, heavy drivers = great build quality and engineering = great sound/acoustic design.

My dear fellow, why all this vitriol? What have ATC ever done to you all the way over in Singapore? You might not care for their products, but no one is forcing you to buy them, and there are plenty of other speakers on the market.
Amir has completed his review and many of us here have posted a comment or two as part of the discussion, but that's all that is required.

Let ATC muddle along in the English countryside if that's what they want. They're doing nobody any harm and appear to have plenty of satisfied customers.

I, for one, am finding your continued tirade quite tiresome. Please let it go, if only in the interests of the congenial atmosphere here at ASR.

 

[Pharos]

I've noticed that several of the quotes are being attributed to the wrong poster, software perhaps?

 

[Soniclife]

They're doing nobody any harm and appear to have plenty of satisfied customers.

They are possibly contributing to the circle of confusion, but measurements of home models don't tell us much about how they perform in a studio.
I agree with your point about the tone of the criticism, it's not constructive.

 

[q3cpma]

My dear fellow, why all this vitriol? What have ATC ever done to you all the way over in Singapore? You might not care for their products, but no one is forcing you to buy them, and there are plenty of other speakers on the market.
Amir has completed his review and many of us here have posted a comment or two as part of the discussion, but that's all that is required.

Let ATC muddle along in the English countryside if that's what they want. They're doing nobody any harm and appear to have plenty of satisfied customers.

I, for one, am finding your continued tirade quite tiresome. Please let it go, if only in the interests of the congenial atmosphere here at ASR.

While he's insistant, the people saying that this doesn't represent the company (understandable) or that this speaker isn't even bad (laughable) are as insistant. The real problem is that some people here are not in the right forum; and I've seen enough forums ruined by accepting anybody that such vehemence can only be seen as useful to try to filter the newcomers a bit.

 

[Ilkless]

While he's insistant, the people saying that this doesn't represent the company (understandable) or that this speaker isn't even bad (laughable) are as insistant. The real problem is that some people here are not in the right forum; and I've seen enough forums ruined by accepting anybody that such vehemence can only be seen as useful to try to filter the newcomers a bit.

Yeah, PS Audio and Totaldac had its fair share of insistent defenders making excuses for them as well, even on this forum. Why shouldn't ATC be called out if excuses that are easily-disproven constantly repeated?

 

[Pharos]

So we can categorise posts under a few headings;
Those which are concerned with objectivity both in measurement and performance of equipment,
Those objectively critiquing others' posts for inaccuracy or lack of objectivity,
Those expressing irrational beliefs and lacking in contact with objective reality, and,
Those which only serve to besmirch or insult others, whether using spurious argument supposedly about products, or by doing it more directly.

 

[Hector Achilleus]

Yeah, PS Audio and Totaldac had its fair share of insistent defenders making excuses for them as well, even on this forum. Why shouldn't ATC be called out if excuses that are easily-disproven constantly repeated?

So Atc in the same ballpark with Totaldac...
Come on
Hater in action, no doubt.

 

[TimVG]

So Atc in the same ballpark with Totaldac...
Come on
Hater in action, no doubt.

Perhaps. According to this review however, he isn't wrong.

 

[BillH]

So Atc in the same ballpark with Totaldac...
Come on
Hater in action, no doubt.

I think @llkless nailed it. From the totaldac review by Amir:

By now, we have such a solid library of product tests that we can predict what happens when someone attempts to sell a concept rather than performance to audiophiles. Lack of measurements is the first warning sign. Totaldac has a single graph that is competing with a long bullet list of audiophile marketing.

The d1-six throws out the most fundamental science in signal processing and digital audio, hoping lay notions of audiophiles compensates.

Sounds just like the ATC.
Nice first post. Welcome to science based audio discussions.

 

[Pharos]

This feels very harsh, espeially when considering the Martin Colloms write-up of the SCM50ASL.

 

[PoulM]

Apparently no one has given a thought why all true manufacturers shy this forum like living Hell. It can hardly be a coincidence.
This forum is with very, very few brilliant exceptions all useless smalltalk thinly disguised as science but in reality is hardly any different from facebookism at its lowest...

 

[pierre]

Apparently no one has given a thought why all true manufacturers shy this forum like living Hell. It can hardly be a coincidence.
This forum is with very, very few brilliant exceptions all useless smalltalk thinly disguised as science but in reality is hardly any different from facebookism at its lowest...

That's not true. RME or Benchmark manufacturers talk here often. Manufacturers selling low quality products, less so.

Why are you trying to defend this speaker? the freq response is a disaster. It is not a pro speaker (sold in the audiophile section). it is fine if someone likes it. It is likely few people will like it. That doesn't means that all ATC speakers are bad. They are however expensive and people
expect top notch quality for the price.

P.S.: i have used a pair ATC scm25pro for a long time. It is a good product, but you find the same quality for a lot less.

 

[BillH]

Apparently no one has given a thought why all true manufacturers shy this forum like living Hell. It can hardly be a coincidence.
This forum is with very, very few brilliant exceptions all useless smalltalk thinly disguised as science but in reality is hardly any different from facebookism at its lowest...

Your post doesn't seem consistent with observables:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x4700-avr-review-updated.14493/

Schiit is another example as are the companies sending in samples to test...
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...anatoo-transparent-zero-speaker-review.13717/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...version-2-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/

 

[Inner Space]

Welcome to science based audio discussions.

Except that lllkless exhibits such weird, seething, and particular hatred for last-generation UK designs, and their designers and customers, thereby constituting obvious and extreme bias and prejudice, neither of which have a place in science-based discussions. I find myself obliged to discount his contributions, just as I would fanboy gushing on other forums. As always, calm, considered and rational approaches are far more useful.

 

[617]

 

[Pharos]

Its a shame that on so many forums there is a constant need to deal with aggressive posts, and to fend off highly subjective views; not those in a sense of saying "I like X", but which are based on personal a need to express personal vindictiveness through attack, and attempted invalidation of others.

If basic rules of disciplined thinking restraint and decency were adhered to, all the energy could go towards arriving at consensuses about equipment, and validating or refuting truths, and may provide progress.

 

[q3cpma]

Its a shame that on so many forums there is a constant need to deal with aggressive posts, and to fend off highly subjective views; not those in a sense of saying "I like X", but which are based on personal a need to express personal vindictiveness through attack, and attempted invalidation of others.

If basic rules of disciplined thinking restraint and decency were adhered to, all the energy could go towards arriving at consensuses about equipment, and validating or refuting truths, and may provide progress.

I see one side providing data and the other not doing so. Don't bother trying to sweet talk your way out of this, going all argumentum ad temperantiam, the reasonable people all have arrived to the same conclusion: consider ATC as bad until more detailed data is brought up, then reevaluate it.
And if you're the kind of guy trying to say "but but reviewer X said this about my favourite speaker/brand! It can't be bad!", I'm sure there are a lot of forums just for this kind of discussion.

Except that lllkless exhibits such weird, seething, and particular hatred for last-generation UK designs

Looks like snake oil hate, and not particularly "UK design" to me. Especially since KEF is pretty well received here.

and their designers and customers, thereby constituting obvious and extreme bias and prejudice

Nice opinion, here. You can say that once you prove that such sentiment wasn't born out of data. The "hatred" comes from the various fanboys littering this place.

As always, calm, considered and rational approaches are far more useful.

See above, the only argument you have "watch your tone" while all the data points to another emperor with tattered rags instead of clothes.

Really quite sad to see fanboys sticking to their brands like mussels to their rock, as I myself expected a lot from ATC, still believing a little in their reputation (though the pro speaker price tag along with no measurements eroded this belief quite a bit).