Spotify to launch 'Hi-Fi' CD Quality Tier.

[phion]

I doubt anyone can know what I can or can't hear unless they're me

The point is you can't know it yourself either unless you do a volume controlled a/b test.

 

[goat76]

Spotify is one of the ones that pays the least per stream to the artists/labels.

Qobuz is obviously the one you should choose if you are concerned with payout per stream, but they are of course fairly small vs some of the others so the total revenue is probably higher on other services.



DIGITAL SERVICE PROVIDER $ PER STREAM

Qobuz $0.04390
Peloton $0.04036
iHeartRadio $0.01426
Amazon Unlimited $0.01175
Napster/Rhapsody $0.01110
24/7 Entertainment GmbH $0.01050
YouTube Red $0.00948
Tidal $0.00927
Deezer $0.00567
GooglePlay $0.00543
Apple $0.00495
KKBox $0.00435
Amazon Digital Services Inc. $0.00395
Spotify $0.00331
Loen $0.00205
Pandora $0.00155
Vevo $0.00109
Yandex LLC $0.00051
YouTube Content ID $0.00028
UMA $0.00013

Qobuz giving more back to the artists than other services

Great point! Qobuz really is exceptional in this regard. Figures I’ve seen show them paying the artist 4 times more than Amazon, and almost 10 times more than Apple. This makes me feel very good about supporting Qobuz. Thanks for bringing this up. (Note: these rates are from 2018 and may have...

community.roonlabs.com

 

[Pearljam5000]

That is true. We can't know like 100% know. You may be a one of a kind discerning-lossy-audio-from-lossless-prodigy for all we know. But let us inspect the facts.

First of you started by saying "There's a big difference in SQ between 320K and lossless even on low end gear" - I would say that is objectively false. On the contrary, a truthful statement would be "There's a very small difference in SQ between 320k and lossless even on high end gear".

So right of the bat you come across as a less than truthful source on this topic, that at best is exaggerating heavily when talking about this subject. Secondly, based on both the objective data on how lossy compression works, and based on a number of ABX tests where people fail to tell the difference - We can make a pretty educated and qualified guess about whether you statement is likely to be true or not. Thirdly, we have pretty objective information about the overall sound quality of a tablet. It's basically mono, it has limited frequency range, extremely cheap drivers, limited volume, etc etc. All of this counts against your claim being true.

As many audiophiles before you, you may THINK you hear the difference. Many are fooled by the bitrate. 320kbps sounds soooo much less than 1411kbps, so it HAS to be a large difference, right? But they are not comparable, in part because the 1411kbps is completely uncompressed (it can be losslessly compressed to much less), and in part because the lossless compression is VERY clever.

Potentially there could also be other reasons that you hear a difference (level matching etc) that is not directly related to the sound quality.

Anyway. In summary I think we can say pretty confidently that there's no way you (or anyone else) can hear the difference between the Spotify Premium 320kbps stream and a lossless stream on a tablet.

It's all your opinions
What's a big difference for me may be a small difference for you .
Besides this whole hobby is about small differences making a big difference at the end .

 

[Pearljam5000]

Have you ever done a proper blindtest to approve this? I did and (luckily?!?) for me that bitrate certainly is just as good as lossless / cd-quality. It's a relief to finally settle with this stuff. Back when SACD, DVD-A and HDCD were the new shit I was obsessed with these formats and bought different players (besides lots of voodoo stuff) which could playback them. For certain albums even got the regular CD and the other formats to compare... unsuccessfully of course
Now it's 320K all the way and transparent playback for me which reduces the important "bits" of good music reproduction to a short list (in no particular order):
a) mix / master
b) speakers
c) room acoustics

No but I did compare the formats a million times on different systems
So I'm pretty sure about it.

 

[bluefuzz]

I would happily pay more if I was confident the added money went primarily to the artists.

Yes, I've long thought it would make more sense if the streaming services differenciated their tiers by release date or artist activity rather than more or less imaginary 'quality' differences.

• Free or ad-supported tier: Music released 50 or more years ago or only by dead artists.
• Medium tier ($10/month) : Music released 10 or more years ago or artist retired/inactive/dead
• Top tier ($25/month): Music released up to three years ago. Guaranteed 75% return to living/active artists.
• Premium Ultra Super Duper tier ($50/month: Music released up til today. Guaranteed 90% return to living/active artists.

 

[sigbergaudio]

It's all your opinions
What's a big difference for me may be a small difference for you .
Besides this whole hobby is about small differences making a big difference at the end .

Not really. I'm a bit surprised this is coming from you, you appear to be pretty open to learning and focused on science / evidence based information in general?

 

[bluefuzz]

I doubt anyone can know what I can or can't hear unless they're me

The point is that not even you can really be sure of the difference between what you actually hear and what you think you hear without rigorous controls. You have been on this site long enough to know that if you really are hearing obvious differences between lossless and 320k Ogg, then there is something else going on in the signal chain that is not being accounted for.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The point is that not even you can really be sure of the difference between what you actually hear and what you think you hear without rigorous controls. You have been on this site long enough to know that if you really are hearing obvious differences between lossless and 320k Ogg, then there is something else going on in the signal chain that is not being accounted for.

I don't think it's scientifically proven no human can tell the difference between 320K and lossless
In that case yeah I'd be imagining things

 

[Pearljam5000]

Not really. I'm a bit surprised this is coming from you, you appear to be pretty open to learning and focused on science / evidence based information in general?

I'm super open to to that .
But that specific comment of yours was an opinion not a scientific fact.
What is a small and a big difference ?
To me small differences in sound are big to you they may not be .
If you can show me one scientific proof that no one on the planet except for dogs maybe can tell the difference between 320K and lossless I'd be the first one to admit I'm imagining things

 

[sigbergaudio]

I'm super open to to that .
But that specific comment of yours was an opinion not a scientific fact.
What is a small and a big difference ?
To me small differences in sound are big to you they may not be .
If you can show me one scientific proof that no one on the planet except for dogs maybe can tell the difference between 320K and lossless I'd be the first one to admit I'm imagining things

This is audio cable rhetoric. As I am sure you know, it is impossible to prove something is not the case, we can only prove that something is the case.

So I can show you a thousand controlled studies where in each 1,000 people are unable to tell the difference. Then you can still argue that I can't know FOR SURE that no one on the planet can't tell the difference between cable A and cable B. I also cannot prove that God does not exist. Right?

It is you that has presented an unfounded claim, not me.

 

[Pearljam5000]

This is audio cable rhetoric. As I am sure you know, it is impossible to prove something is not the case, we can only prove that something is the case.

So I can show you a thousand controlled studies where in each 1,000 people are unable to tell the difference. Then you can still argue that I can't know FOR SURE that no one on the planet can't tell the difference between cable A and cable B. I also cannot prove that God does not exist. Right?

It is you that has presented an unfounded claim, not me.

How is it unfounded if you can't prove it's not true ?( you said it yourself that you can't )

 

[Draki]

No but I did compare the formats a million times on different systems
So I'm pretty sure about it.

But....did those systems use the same cables? Big variable you know...

 

[sigbergaudio]

How is it unfounded if you can't prove it's not true ?( you said it yourself that you can't )

I'm trying to figure out if you are joking or not. How am I supposed to prove that you can't hear the difference between 320kbps and lossless 44.1khz/16bit?

How is it my responsibility to disprove your claim? It is your responsibility to prove your claim. Am I even on the right forum right now?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'm trying to figure out if you are joking or not. How am I supposed to prove that you can't hear the difference between 320kbps and lossless 44.1khz/16bit?

How is it my responsibility to disprove your claim? It is your responsibility to prove your claim. Am I even on the right forum right now?

Lol
Let's agree to dissagree

 

[Pearljam5000]

But....did those systems use the same cables? Big variable you know...

On the same system I listened to both formats..
And did that on many systems over the years
I heard a difference
People are saying to me it's impossible

 

[sigbergaudio]

Lol
Let's agree to dissagree

Why is Amir measuring speakers? He should just listen to them and tell us which one is best. And if someone disagrees, it should be on those people disagreeing to prove Amir wrong. This is your current logic.

 

[antcollinet]

I doubt anyone can know what I can or can't hear unless they're me

I think it was along the lines of "what can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

 

[antcollinet]

How is it unfounded if you can't prove it's not true ?( you said it yourself that you can't )

Because you have no evidence that you are hearing actual differences in the audio rather than perceptual changes due to bias.

No evidence = unfounded.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I think it was along the lines of "what can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

I'm still waiting for the scientific proof that it's humanly impossible to hear the difference between the formats

 

[antcollinet]

On the same system I listened to both formats..
And did that on many systems over the years
I heard a difference
People are saying to me it's impossible

People are saying to you it is extremely** unlikely rather than impossible - and you've presented no evidence that you actually did hear a difference not caused by bias.

**to an extreme