WiiM Amp Streaming Amplifier Review

[harkpabst]

I didn't want to run a sub in this room.

Well, that's a bit of a shaky argument, isn't it? You might not want it, that's OK. I just can't see how one would come to presume that this amp was ideal for that plan. In particular since proper bass management (high pass for the mains, low pass for the sub) is one of its really strong points. It will benefit much more from adding a sub than conventional stereo amplifiers.

In all fairness though, you already stated more than once that you didn't come here to bash WiiM but to make clear what not to expect. Fair enough, we should all accept and respect that and stop picking on you. The facts are straight and you are not seeking for advice how to resolve the issue. You made up your mind and stick to your main intention. Not much more to say about it.

 

[rsc1]

Well, that's a bit of a shaky argument, isn't it? You might not want it, that's OK. I just can't see how one would come to presume that this amp was ideal for that plan. In particular since proper bass management (high pass for the mains, low pass for the sub) is one of its really strong points. It will benefit much more from adding a sub than conventional stereo amplifiers.

The WiiM Amp sucks, it can’t wash my pants.

 

[Antlestxp]

The WiiM Amp sucks, it can’t wash my pants.

Man this community can be pretty sensitive. I was able to run speakers at full range with my previous 60watt amp. I hoped that the wiim could do the same. There are a number of small amps reviewed on this community that have punched above their price point. I hoped the wiim would be one of them. In my case it wasn't. My feelings aren't hurt. It won't stop me from purchasing other products from them. My initial post was just to let people know their is a possibility it may not work for everyone. I don't understand why that is so hard to hear. It's like some people have stock in this company. Also these companies read forum comments (or at least they should). If people are willing to say hey this thing isn't perfect, maybe this could be better, we may see those changes and continued development. If everyone is too scared to say what they really feel or what their true experience was, companies have no motivation to make things better. I'm also tired of people that don't even own the device standing up for it. That behavior is not unique to this prodeluct or this forum. It makes no sense to me. I have solved my problem purchasing another device that is meeting my needs. Let's move on.

 

[rsc1]

Man this community can be pretty sensitive. I was able to run speakers at full range with my previous 60watt amp. I hoped that the wiim could do the same. There are a number of small amps reviewed on this community that have punched above their price point. I hoped the wiim would be one of them. In my case it wasn't. My feelings aren't hurt. It won't stop me from purchasing other products from them. My initial post was just to let people know their is a possibility it may not work for everyone. I don't understand why that is so hard to hear. It's like some people have stock in this company. Also these companies read forum comments (or at least they should). If people are willing to say hey this thing isn't perfect, maybe this could be better, we may see those changes and continued development. If everyone is too scared to say what they really feel or what their true experience was, companies have no motivation to make things better. I'm also tired of people that don't even own the device standing up for it. That behavior is not unique to this prodeluct or this forum. It makes no sense to me. I have solved my problem purchasing another device that is meeting my needs. Let's move on.

I was making a joke apologies if that didn't come across.

I own a WiiM Amp, and agree with you that it’s not perfect. I appreciate and understand your complaints. However, I don’t think it’s fair to say it doesn’t punch above its price point, or that it’s not good value. It’s pretty much unbeatable value, unless of course you don’t care about all the extra features it has. Then you’d be better off with something like a Fosi V3.

What other 60W amp are you comparing it to?

 

[Antlestxp]

I was making a joke

I own a WiiM Amp, and agree with you that it’s not perfect. I appreciate and understand your complaints. However, I don’t think it’s fair to say it doesn’t punch above its price point, or that it’s not good value. It’s pretty much unbeatable value, unless of course you don’t care about all the extra features it has. Then you’d be better off with something like a Fosi V3.

What other 60W amp are you comparing it to?

I never said it wasn't a good value. At least I hope I didn't. It is an incredible value. There are not that many all in one's to pick from with hdmi. Even less with a good app experience, bass management, or peq. As a whole unit it does punch above its price. The wiim was replacing a pm7000n. That was the last amp I used on a regular basis in our living room. It was good but no hdmi and it's full width meaning I had to have it on a rack. Plus the heos platform is trash. The work around I was using to get roon working with it stopped being reliable. I used that as motivation to redo this rooms setup. I am looking forward to checking out those new fosi mono amps. If those work well enough (looks like they are more than capable) , I hold my breath for a wiim preamp. Then I get streamers for the rest of the house and I don't have to rely on a half dozen apps.

 

[TabCam]

Something I'm still struggling to understand. The wiim measures fine but it couldn't keep up with a basic avr in my case. I even tried a second one to be sure I didn't have a dud.

Maybe this youtube video gives a nice clue. In my experience Watts are not the same Watts if you just take 1 kHz.

 

[Julf]

Maybe this youtube video gives a nice clue. In my experience Watts are not the same Watts if you just take 1 kHz.

Sigh, another youtube guru misusing the word "scientific"

 

[Mnyb]

When I saw the amp spec and measurements I thought nice product. With its obvious limitations as load dependency and not so much power, it anyways has a lot going for it with all the nice features . But I also view the 2.1 capacity more mandatory and not always optional (60/40 in my subjective view ) . For the price you shift some of the workload to the sub , it’s a better optimisation for a minimal budget. WiiM amp small two ways + decent budget sub .

I think it’s what you could realistically expect . So WiiM should be better to manage expectations and not over promise what this kind of product can do .

But in my amateur market analysis I think there are a niche for a better performing versions to up the price 50% add better psu metal chassi and post filter feedback and you occupie another niche .

 

[harkpabst]

Maybe this youtube video gives a nice clue. In my experience Watts are not the same Watts if you just take 1 kHz.

This guy thinks he's into something ... but he isn't. Unfortunately, he's lacking the expertise to see it.

He doesn't know about crest factor, he doesn't know about white noise, pink noise, M-noise or weighting filters. He doesn't know about the definition of linearity, he doesn't even have a clue what kind of noise he's using for his "measurements". He's just got glasses.

A $300 all-in-one box cannot be and is not the best amplifier available. It's just good enough in many cases and - as @Mnyb has pointed out - there is one very clear way to increase the number of cases when it comes to higher SPL requirements, especially (but not limited to) bass extension.

 

[DRC]

A $300 all-in-one box cannot be and is not the best amplifier available.

Many fanatics on the Wiim Forum, which is becoming like a cult, would disagree!

 

[harkpabst]

Many fanatics on the Wiim Forum, which is becoming like a cult, would disagree!

Not sure about that. Not everybody on the WiiM forum is a WiiM Amp fan, let alone fanatic.

 

[TabCam]

This guy thinks he's into something ... but he isn't. Unfortunately, he's lacking the expertise to see it.

He doesn't know about crest factor, he doesn't know about white noise, pink noise, M-noise or weighting filters. He doesn't know about the definition of linearity, he doesn't even have a clue what kind of noise he's using for his "measurements". He's just got glasses.

A $300 all-in-one box cannot be and is not the best amplifier available. It's just good enough in many cases and - as @Mnyb has pointed out - there is one very clear way to increase the number of cases when it comes to higher SPL requirements, especially (but not limited to) bass extension.

What does the crest factor has to do with music? Maybe with a power supply but with music? Where do you in the video get that he mentions the crest factor!?

 

[rsc1]

He doesn't know about crest factor, he doesn't know about white noise, pink noise, M-noise or weighting filters. He doesn't know about the definition of linearity, he doesn't even have a clue what kind of noise he's using for his "measurements". He's just got glasses.

What does the crest factor has to do with music? Maybe with a power supply but with music? Where do you in the video get that he mentions the crest factor!?

You're missing the point. Harkpabst is simply illustrating that this "scientist" doesn't have a lot of scientific knowledge, and as such his findings (or rather, opinions) should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[harkpabst]

What does the crest factor has to do with music? Maybe with a power supply but with music?

Music, like every waveform does have a crest factor, too. Don't mix up power factor correction and crest factor.

Where do you in the video get that he mentions the crest factor!?

He doesn't and that's the problem, exactly. He's one of those evangelists of the theory that music is somehow magically different from test signals, which is not the case. I wouldn't even mind him claiming that so much (because there's a grain of truth in it), if he wouldn't call himself scientific, which he is clearly not.

This mentioned grain of truth is, that power output at 1 kHz cannot be the only measure to judge an amplifier's capability to ... well ... amplify voltages. But the thing is: plain nobody says so. You need to look at and understand all the other tests being performed.

Lacking formal education on the fields of electronics, he falls for the trap that amps would be developed just with 1 kHz power output tests in mind and that was the reason for them to fail miserably with his unique noise tests (himself not knowing exactly what kind of nois signal he's using). Here's the beaf: The crest factor of multi-tone signals or pink or white noise is always greater than that a pure sine signal. If e.g. a 1 kHz sine input signal (crest factor 1.41, narrow distribution of energy) drove the amp right to the limit of clipping, the a multi-tone or noise signal (higher crest factor, wide distribution of energy) must be fed into the same amp at a lower level, so the peaks don't clip. However, the overall power of that signal (input and output) is actually lower that of the sine wave signal.

The WiiM Amp doesn't perform well down at 20 Hz. It's power amp section shows the same load dependency as mostly all other cheap class D chip amps. WIiM have been very conservative regarding maximum gain, especially the analog Input has a very low sensitivity, probably to keep the amp from clipping and damage under all circumstances. These are all valid points for criticism.

But it has nothing to do with it not being able to reproduce music, because it is music, not test signals. It can do that pretty well with half reasonably chosen speakers.

 

[PGansz]

From the WiiM Amp product overview: “Craving that extra oomph? Simply add a powered subwoofer to take your audio to cinematic levels“ (https://wiimhome.com/wiimamp/overview). Does it not delver in a home theater setup if the crossover and a subwoofer are used? Usually when I think home theater, a subwoofer for the LFE comes to mind. That’s how I have it setup in my home office and have no problems.

I know how most feel about AR around here but watch his video on this exact subject and it's clear the subwoofer idea isn't the solution either. The amp still shuts down when watching movies at moderate to high levels.

Personally, I don't watch movies at loud volumes (very rarely) so it probably wouldn't be a problem. I'm not contending that most people may be fine with this. I'm contending that the marketing of it as an AVR solution is bogus because even super cheap AVR's don't have this problem.

 

[rsc1]

Why do people feel the need to defend or bash these things as if their lives depend on it? I'm all for sharing opinions and helping others make informed decisions, but it's an electronic device, not part of your identity. Just see it for what it is; a cheap streamer/DAC/amp solution that has some flaws but is a good entry into hi-fi for a lot of people. Hopefully it will push other manufacturers to produce even better ones.

I know how most feel about AR around here but watch his video on this exact subject and it's clear the subwoofer idea isn't the solution either. The amp still shuts down when watching movies at moderate to high levels.

Personally, I don't watch movies at loud volumes (very rarely) so it probably wouldn't be a problem. I'm not contending that most people may be fine with this. I'm contending that the marketing of it as an AVR solution is bogus because even super cheap AVR's don't have this problem.

You're not contending that it's fine as an AVR solution for most people, but are calling it bogus as an AVR solution? I agree transparency and feedback are important (for both consumer and manufacturer), but that seems unfair. Remember, this has lots of features that most basic AVRs don't have. Can't remember exactly, but I think someone calculated the price of the internal amplifier to be somewhere between $80-$100. AR also seems to forget that.

 

[harkpabst]

I know how most feel about AR around here but watch his video on this exact subject and it's clear the subwoofer idea isn't the solution either. The amp still shuts down when watching movies at moderate to high levels.

Trouble is, this claim is as unfounded as his other ones. I don't know what was wrong with his review sample (definitely, WiiM messed it up with the early PCB version 2 units) or with his personal setup. Fact is, that current production models can well reach more than moderate levels and a subwoofer (configured using WiiM's bass management) can and will only improve on that. That's no reason to torture yourself by watching his video.

Having said that, the WiiM Amp should not be tagged "Home Theater", like WiiM advertisement does. Not sure how many people would expect it to replace a 9.2 HT setup, probably nobody on planet earth. It can replace your mom's typical soundbar, for sure

 

[HalSF]

Having said that, the WiiM Amp should not be tagged "Home Theater", like WiiM advertisement does. Not sure how many people would expect it to replace a 9.2 HT setup, probably nobody on planet earth. It can replace your mom's typical soundbar, for sure

I’d differ with this in the sense that “home theater” as a category has expanded beyond the original narrow focus on 5.1 etc. surround along with high-end ambitions to replicate a movie theater experience in the home, and here I’m thinking of the widespread adoption of modest 2.1 stereo connected to a video monitor/TV, which is exactly how I’m using the WiiM Amp (it replaced an old-school 5.1 AVR). You can call it home theater or just watching TV with excellent sound quality, I’m happy either way.

High-falutin’ connotations of “home theater” marketing-speak is probably to blame for a lot of the overheated crankiness around the WiiM Amp’s power and constrained ability to offer very high-volume multiplex sound. IMO home theater does not necessarily equal a hyperbolic soundtrack experience, and I don’t expect the WiiM to give me that flavor of home theater.

 

[harkpabst]

High-falutin’ connotations of “home theater” marketing-speak is probably to blame for a lot of the overheated crankiness around the WiiM Amp’s power and constrained ability to offer very high-volume multiplex sound. IMO home theater does not necessarily equal a hyperbolic soundtrack experience, and I don’t expect the WiiM to give me that flavor of home theater.

You don't even have to convince me, I've never been into multi-channel audio.

 

[Inertiaman]

Can someone point me to an example of Wiim "marketing this as an AVR solution"??

My perception is they have positioned it as a versatile way to improve the audio for your television via the ARC connection, decent amplification, and a decent subwoofer xover/output function. I've not seen -- perhaps missed -- any suggestion that the WIim Amp is an "AVR".

A TV + Wiim amp + decent pair of speakers and (optionally) a subwoofer is a very affordable way to get a quality audio experience in a home: great streaming source support, good local file support (USB server), good ARC functionality when TV is the source, currently good (4 band PEQ) and soon likely great (8 or 10 band PEQ) EQ functionality, virtually idiot-proof multi-room synchronization, good SNR stereo performance. That is a LOT of functionality, all at good to great levels of performance.

In that context of versatility and performance, we're going to isolate a single passage in a single movie with a particularly difficult to drive pair of speakers and conclude that this product isn't "worthy" ????

Wiim has never suggested this is a replacement for 5.1 channel home theater. My perception of their "home theater" angle is more along the lines of an optimized middle ground between a sound bar and a messy, full-blown, multi-speaker home theater setup. I think that's a legitimate functional "space" with a large demographic to market to.