Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[Axo1989]

His use of the word litigate is clear. When he combines it with threats of claims of damages, and of it being "too late" when he posts his video - it is obvious his intent was threatening to sue. To be honest it was obvious even without those things. No-one uses litigate in the archaic sense ... especially those with poor language skills, who will always use the commonly understood meaning of a word.

In my experience people with such poor language skills often use incorrect meanings or senses of words.

"I will be obliged to litigate and seek damages" - how is that not clear?

Are you quoting, or paraphrasing?

He has now realised that this has been bad PR, and is trying to roll it back. But is doing it disingenuously by pretending he was never making that threat - rather than doing what any reasonable individual would do, and apologise for it.

I don't understand why you are defending the disingenuous approach.

I don't understand why anyone assigned meaning, coherency and agency to his communications at all. I mean I do understand and I'm not criticising anyone caught up in this (to the contrary, they have my sympathy) but I recommend not doing those things, based on my own experience.

 

[caught gesture]

What a mess this has become. I have had many correspondences with Erin (and also Amir) and while they have different approaches and different personalities, they both seek the same thing, truth in audio. In my professional opinion, this is highly valuable. Both of them are tremendous assets to the audio community, both are highly qualified to do and continue to do what they are doing. I had my doubts many years ago, but those doubts were quickly cast aside with multiple zoom calls with Klippel engineers to learn about the NFS.

As a manufacturer, I find this entire situation incredibly disturbing. Reviewers are going to be scared to review products, manufacturers might become emboldened to stop reviewers. Lose-Lose!

It likely isn't appropriate, but I am going to donate to Erin's Patreon and offer Eric a free consultation regarding the NFS and even some free NFS measurements. Since I am not a reviewer, measurement results would be private. Eric might be more inclined to learn or accept things from this approach. I don't think anyone wants to see this destruction continue at this point.

It would be better if Warkwyn (US Klippel distributor) handled the consultation and measurements, but I doubt Warkwyn would offer this service for free. Perhaps if I reached out to them? I don't know... Let's first see if Eric is open to this.

@Eric Alexander , please feel free to contact me privately. I promise, all correspondence between you and I will be fully confidential.

I think we have a valuable case study for all designers and low-volume manufacturers to consider. You took one path, Eric has chosen the opposite. Any rational person can see the benefit of accepting constructive criticism and using that knowledge to improve their product.

 

[AscendDF]

I think we have a valuable case study for all designers and low-volume manufacturers to study. You took one path, Eric has chosen the opposite. Any rational person can see the benefit of accepting constructive criticism and using that knowledge to improve their product.

I can see the contrast, but I have always fully relied on measurements throughout my entire career (which started back in 1985 or 86). I have used basically every measurement tool available at one point of another. From real time spectrum analyzers, then later to swept sine wave devices, to maximum length sequence analyzers - and now to the Klippel NFS.

I am honestly not sure what experience Eric has with acoustic measurements. Adopting to a technology like the NFS, that is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else, was an easy and natural transition for me, but likely a very hard pill to swallow for many others. Ideally, there must be some way to merge the "science" side of audio with the "audiophile" side. I think it would be healthy for this industry rather than one side continually putting down / fighting against the other side. It doesn't make much sense.

 

[sigbergaudio]

What a mess this has become. I have had many correspondences with Erin (and also Amir) and while they have different approaches and different personalities, they both seek the same thing, truth in audio. In my professional opinion, this is highly valuable. Both of them are tremendous assets to the audio community, both are highly qualified to do and continue to do what they are doing. I had my doubts many years ago, but those doubts were quickly cast aside with multiple zoom calls with Klippel engineers to learn about the NFS.

As a manufacturer, I find this entire situation incredibly disturbing. Reviewers are going to be scared to review products, manufacturers might become emboldened to stop reviewers. Lose-Lose!

It likely isn't appropriate, but I am going to donate to Erin's Patreon and offer Eric a free consultation regarding the NFS and even some free NFS measurements. Since I am not a reviewer, measurement results would be private. Eric might be more inclined to learn or accept things from this approach. I don't think anyone wants to see this destruction continue at this point.

It would be better if Warkwyn (US Klippel distributor) handled the consultation and measurements, but I doubt Warkwyn would offer this service for free. Perhaps if I reached out to them? I don't know... Let's first see if Eric is open to this.

@Eric Alexander , please feel free to contact me privately. I promise, all correspondence between you and I will be fully confidential.

That is commendable of you! I have also communicated with both Erin and Amir and they both come across as fair and respectful. I will also donate to Erin's Patreon to show my support (and in part because I'm curious about the latest video ).

In addition to sharing your concerns, as a small manufacturer I am also somewhat worried this will reduce the overall trust in small manufacturers. To succeed in this business is incredibly hard. But thanks to modern tools and the vast ability of knowledge and ideas, it is possible to build competent products even as a small scale manufacturer.

In this case I guess it isn't really the products themselves that are the problem either, but rather the man of the hour. I hope we are able to come out of this shitshow wiser, somehow.

 

[AscendDF]

That is commendable of you! I have also communicated with both Erin and Amir and they both come across as fair and respectful. I will also donate to Erin's Patreon to show my support (and in part because I'm curious about the latest video ).

In addition to sharing your concerns, as a small manufacturer I am also somewhat worried this will reduce the overall trust in small manufacturers. To succeed in this business is incredibly hard. But thanks to modern tools and the vast ability of knowledge and ideas, it is possible to build competent products even as a small scale manufacturer.

In this case I guess it isn't really the products themselves that are the problem either, but rather the man of the hour. I hope we are able to come out of this shitshow wiser, somehow.

I fully agree with you! Perhaps the resolution to this falls on our (the small manufacturer's) shoulders? I have been in this industry for nearly my entire life, and I have never witnessed anything like this before. This is just so damaging on so many different levels.

 

[antcollinet]

Are you quoting, or paraphrasing?

Quoting - see Amir's screenshot of his email.

 

[Sokel]

The single woofer response was epic.
Yes,we talked about presenting raw data here instead of chit-chat but not that raw

 

[olieb]

In addition to sharing your concerns, as a small manufacturer I am also somewhat worried this will reduce the overall trust in small manufacturers.

I can speak only for myself, but I do not see this.
Something like this will probably not happen with big companies that have a marketing (and legal) department to handle such things in a different manner, but this is only one (small) manufacturer (actually it is one guy). Why should that have anything to do with someone else?
I would have some reserves about exotic designs (like bunches of 7 oder more tweeters) without information and measurements to back it up, but that was the case already before.
The big companies have marketing power to create consumer attention and "trust". For smaller ones I think openness and thorough (technical) information is one way to do it, and you and Ascend, Dutch and others show how it is possible.

 

[thewas]

I’m not on Facebook, but Eric Alexander allows plenty of information to be publicly viewable. I found this post which I think gives an insight into his character.


View attachment 363194

He thinks that he is a maverick “expert“, and likes to arrogantly throw shade at the real experts and scientists. I imagine he mainly lives in a bubble of people not questioning his “expertise”. Two science-based reviews quite close together will have seriously dented that curated facade. His arrogance only allows for one type of response…

Newer higher resolution images from its back side have shown that the "craters" were actually holes where were strange unidentified objects are attached:

Scientists from all over the world wonder what those are...

 

[caught gesture]

I can see the contrast, but I have always fully relied on measurements throughout my entire career (which started back in 1985 or 86). I have used basically every measurement tool available at one point of another. From real time spectrum analyzers, then later to swept sine wave devices, to maximum length sequence analyzers - and now to the Klippel NFS.

I am honestly not sure what experience Eric has with acoustic measurements. Adopting to a technology like the NFS, that is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else, was an easy and natural transition for me, but likely a very hard pill to swallow for many others. Ideally, there must be some way to merge the "science" side of audio with the "audiophile" side. I think it would be healthy for this industry rather than one side continually putting down / fighting against the other side. It doesn't make much sense.

It is not so much about the measurements but the acceptance of criticism and using it as a positive for change rather than fighting against it and digging an ever-deeper hole.

 

[DanielT]

There should be a niche for smaller speaker manufacturers to create speakers with high sensitivity that are amp "friendly", i.e. no low dipping Ohm ditto. After all, there are still quite a few audiophiles who use low powered tube amps. Let's say a speaker with at least true 92dB sensitivity, decent FR and fairly low distortion. To create stellar good on-off axis response and really low distortion together with 92 dB sensitivity I guess is a real challenge and it would be really expensive speakers, but to compromise a little (whatever this "little" is?)on FR and distortion and thereby create an affordable speakers. It should work, or maybe I'm wrong?

Something like that should be invested in by Tekton, or some other manufacturer. Not as Tekton claims 95 dB sensitivity with M-Lore but with data and measurements show how it really is. The market is there. Maybe not a huge market, but still. Tube amp dudes, those who have fallen for the craze of vintage (solid) receivers/amps that can have low power. There are probably quite a few potential buyers out there for such speakers anyway.

By the way. Tekton is not alone in exaggerating sensitivity figures.Klipsch is probably the most infamous company that makes it that I can think of right now.

Another and incredibly dishonest way to do it is as Tekton and Klipsch are doing now. That is, just make up some sensitivity figure that doesn't match reality.
For Klipsch, it seems to work.

Edit:
High sensitive PA bass driver motored on a speaker with a sufficiently large, wide baffle together with a compression driver, this should be solved with at least 92 dB sensitivity.

 

[DSJR]

Why wait?


Here is a sharper version

https://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/eminence/eminence_alpha_8a.pdf

That doesn’t make any sense if there is no distance specified…

That's not an especially cheap driver at all, at least at Thomann prices and for a speaker costing $750pr. Sure Thomann buy it cheaper but even so...

 

[DanielT]

That's not an especially cheap driver at all, at least at Thomann prices and for a speaker costing $750pr. Sure Thomann buy it cheaper but even so...

For the driver itself, remove a zero approximately:

Item Price: $79.99

Eminence Speakers - Eminence Alpha-8A 8" speaker - Eminence Alpha-8A 125 watt RMS 8" woofer for all bass speaker systems. Eminence Alpha-8A and other Eminence 8" speakers here.

Eminence Alpha-8A 8 inch speaker for speaker replacement or upgrade. Eminence Alpha-8A speaker for all high quality bass speaker systems. The Eminence Alpha-8A speaker delivers warm defined bass with 125 watts RMS power handling. Eminence 8 inch speakers here.

usspeaker.com

 

[Rick Sykora]

Holy shit - he's sent the chart from a driver, suggesting it is of the finished speaker?

Just add it to his list of deflections…

1. Threaten legal action and remove product from sale
2. Claim the measurement axis is was wrong
3. Blame the missing feet
4. Will post measurements to prove I am right
5. Restart selling speaker and play the victim

Give him credit for being masterful at deflection, but while we deep dive into analyzing each time, as far as I can tell, he sits back and watches. We need to stop taking the bait and hold him accountable.

The attorneys are already engaged so that aspect is covered. If we stop giving Tekton more attention, he cannot continue to play victim. If something more is needed, trust Amir will let us know.

 

[teched58]

What a mess this has become. I have had many correspondences with Erin (and also Amir) and while they have different approaches and different personalities, they both seek the same thing, truth in audio. In my professional opinion, this is highly valuable. Both of them are tremendous assets to the audio community, both are highly qualified to do and continue to do what they are doing. I had my doubts many years ago, but those doubts were quickly cast aside with multiple zoom calls with Klippel engineers to learn about the NFS.

As a manufacturer, I find this entire situation incredibly disturbing. Reviewers are going to be scared to review products, manufacturers might become emboldened to stop reviewers. Lose-Lose!

It likely isn't appropriate, but I am going to donate to Erin's Patreon and offer Eric a free consultation regarding the NFS and even some free NFS measurements. Since I am not a reviewer, measurement results would be private. Eric might be more inclined to learn or accept things from this approach. I don't think anyone wants to see this destruction continue at this point.

It would be better if Warkwyn (US Klippel distributor) handled the consultation and measurements, but I doubt Warkwyn would offer this service for free. Perhaps if I reached out to them? I don't know... Let's first see if Eric is open to this.

@Eric Alexander , please feel free to contact me privately. I promise, all correspondence between you and I will be fully confidential.

You are about to learn the meaning of the phrase "No good deed goes unpunished."

 

[DSJR]

For the driver itself, remove a zero approximately:

Item Price: $79.99
View attachment 363213

Eminence Speakers - Eminence Alpha-8A 8" speaker - Eminence Alpha-8A 125 watt RMS 8" woofer for all bass speaker systems. Eminence Alpha-8A and other Eminence 8" speakers here.

Eminence Alpha-8A 8 inch speaker for speaker replacement or upgrade. Eminence Alpha-8A speaker for all high quality bass speaker systems. The Eminence Alpha-8A speaker delivers warm defined bass with 125 watts RMS power handling. Eminence 8 inch speakers here.

usspeaker.com

Sorry, I meant a complete speaker model at $750pr.

Not able to listen obviously, but I'd rather have an 8" driver like this with a gentle equalisable lift in the upper hundred hertz region to a 'precision' metal (I typed mental!!! ) cone driver which is smooth and flat and goes absolutely bananas at resonance point, usually around 5kHz in a 6" driver (I maintain the audible effects can be there to a degree even with vicious filtering).

 

[tomtoo]

There should be a niche for smaller speaker manufacturers to create speakers with high sensitivity that are amp "friendly", i.e. no low dipping Ohm ditto. After all, there are still quite a few audiophiles who use low powered tube amps. Let's say a speaker with at least true 92dB sensitivity, decent FR and fairly low distortion. To create stellar good on-off axis response and really low distortion together with 92 dB sensitivity I guess is a real challenge and it would be really expensive speakers, but to compromise a little (whatever this "little" is?)on FR and distortion and thereby create an affordable speakers. It should work, or maybe I'm wrong?

Something like that should be invested in by Tekton, or some other manufacturer. Not as Tekton claims 95 dB sensitivity with M-Lore but with data and measurements show how it really is. The market is there. Maybe not a huge market, but still. Tube amp dudes, those who have fallen for the craze of vintage (solid) receivers/amps that can have low power. There are probably quite a few potential buyers out there for such speakers anyway.

By the way. Tekton is not alone in exaggerating sensitivity figures.Klipsch is probably the most infamous company that makes it that I can think of right now.

Another and incredibly dishonest way to do it is as Tekton and Klipsch are doing now. That is, just make up some sensitivity figure that doesn't match reality.
For Klipsch, it seems to work.

Edit:
High sensitive PA bass driver motored on a speaker with a sufficiently large, wide baffle together with a compression driver, this should be solved with at least 92 dB sensitivity.

From my point of view to have real high efficience and a good FR you need dsp. And thats something that the tube people usually dont like.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

It seems to me that his understanding of the word "litigate" is on par with his understanding of the words "measurements" and "linear"

 

[Sokel]

From my point of view to have real high efficience and a good FR you need dsp. And thats something that the tube people usually dont like.

Or nice horns.

 

[tomtoo]

Or nice horns.

Its not that easy to make good linear horns. And they are just from material and work expensive. I mean people should do what they like. But from a economic point of view its at least questionable.