Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[antcollinet]

I partly agrees on 1), as for the DCS, at least in SINAD land it did performs better than the practically indistinguisible Holo that I own, but it did perform better, just not practically better, for CS or reliability it did give confidence also, though that could be largely invalid in one's lifetime

Here is some of the dcs marketing drivel

Now with the APEX Ring DAC, our next-generation DAC hardware, we've once again redefined the state-of-the-art for digital audio. This upgrade allows us to take Bartók world-leading measured performance to a new level—technology that provides an even more immersive musical experience.

The Bartók APEX retains the original's powerful, dynamic and detailed soundscape and adds elements of resolution and refinement previously only achievable with the Rossini or Vivaldi APEX. dCS engineered Bartók APEX to inform and inspire.

And there is much much more.


It is BS: Unless the previous offering were defective, any changes made must be inaudible. No extra audible refinement. No more audible immersion.

Their customers are being lied to. This is not OK.

 

[antcollinet]

The polite abbreviation for this is BS

I'm sorry, what is BS now?

 

[AudioSceptic]

Not a huge societal issue, but I know billionaires that get annoyed at misspending $1000.

I can well believe that. Apart from the few who inherit, the wealthy don't get that way, or stay that way, by throwing money around. They might spend more on higher quality, but they still want VFM.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Here is some of the dcs marketing drivel




And there is much much more.


It is BS: Unless the previous offering were defective, any changes made must be inaudible. No extra audible refinement. No more audible immersion.

Their customers are being lied to. This is not OK.

What would be fun would be to get the people at dCS, and makers of other overpriced DACs, to take part in double-blind tests, with their products compared against any of the inexpensive ones that pass muster here. Fat chance!

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Not a huge societal issue, but I know billionaires that get annoyed at misspending $1000.

Look, a
Could you ask one of these billionaires to send this impoverished Brit a bob or two?
I'd give it straight back to ASR, I promise

 

[ahofer]

I can well believe that. Apart from the few who inherit, the wealthy don't get that way, or stay that way, by throwing money around. They might spend more on higher quality, but they still want VFM.

One of the memorable moments in my time was running into Peter Kellogg on the PATH train going between his firm's offices. I mean, the man owned a helicopter transport company as one of his side ventures. One example of second generation doing even better than the first.

 

[YSC]

Here is some of the dcs marketing drivel




And there is much much more.


It is BS: Unless the previous offering were defective, any changes made must be inaudible. No extra audible refinement. No more audible immersion.

Their customers are being lied to. This is not OK.

This is marketing to me but since it is a working and transparent dac in itself i cannot agree it’s BS, if having a transparent dac with marketing claims which in reality doesn’t matter, even topping is selling a ton of BS not ok products above their basic model. Tell me how the D90se is worth extra over the E30? The multi dac chip is BS also in this regard!

 

[YSC]

I can well believe that. Apart from the few who inherit, the wealthy don't get that way, or stay that way, by throwing money around. They might spend more on higher quality, but they still want VFM.

Higher quality can get in the form of exterior or even packaging. Look there are billionaires who take bus to work but also are billionaires who own every collector version of Ferrari. You can’t call Ferrari a BS company and assume it to close up coz Nissan GTR is faster

 

[antcollinet]

This is marketing to me but since it is a working and transparent dac in itself i cannot agree it’s BS, if having a transparent dac with marketing claims which in reality doesn’t matter, even topping is selling a ton of BS not ok products above their basic model. Tell me how the D90se is worth extra over the E30? The multi dac chip is BS also in this regard!

Again - it's not about price, it is about claims made to justify the price. Does topping claim the D90 sounds better than the E30? If so, equaly unacceptable. But I think they are differentiating mainly on features (Display, MQA, Balanced, "pro" spec interfaces etc)

But DCS on the other had claim (in order, I assume, to generate upgrades) that the new device sounds better than the old.

 

[YSC]

Again - it's not about price, it is about claims made to justify the price. Does topping claim the D90 sounds better than the E30? If so, equaly unacceptable. But I think they are differentiating mainly on features (Display, MQA, Balanced, "pro" spec interfaces etc)

But DCS on the other had claim (in order, I assume, to generate upgrades) that the new device sounds better than the old.

It didn’t directly said it’s sounding better, but implying the dac it used are performing better, which if that logic is used, it can only be used on sound quality, or better SINAD always equals better sound, which is not true at the performance of their lower SINAD products which is also transparent. If this kind of marketing isn’t ok even if the products are actually great, basically all audio companies can shut down as more or less they will have some “unacceptable claims”, say for the D&D 8C which is one of my dream speakers said “The 8c is accurate. It is measurablyamong the most accurate loudspeakers that exist. And the 8c transforms your listening room from a harmful influence into a useful extension, through a stack of technologies called RoomMatching.”

Which the room matching only makes the room less harmful to the reproduction of music and not a useful extension to make it sound more accurate than the speakers alone

 

[antcollinet]

It didn’t directly said it’s sounding better, but implying the dac it used are performing better,

As far as I've seen, they list the technical specifications.

These are indisputable and in no way falshoods. In fact they are pretty much the same information measured here.

 

[YSC]

As far as I've seen, they list the technical specifications.

These are indisputable and in no way falshoods. In fact they are pretty much the same information measured here.

But in Asian language, it keeps saying it makes the D90 sw performs even better by the chip, which in reality the performance is way beyond sounding transparent, and according to your no BS claim at all logic, that is a trick to buy the D90 instead of the E30, which is flashy words which don’t bring you real world advantages. Same logic.

 

[antcollinet]

But in Asian language, it keeps saying it makes the D90 sw performs even better by the chip, which in reality the performance is way beyond sounding transparent, and according to your no BS claim at all logic, that is a trick to buy the D90 instead of the E30, which is flashy words which don’t bring you real world advantages. Same logic.

I'd agree it is skating close to the edge - and as I stated above, if they are stating better sound experience, that is equally unacceptable.

But can't you see the difference between:

Better THD+N, flatter FR, etc. All of which speak of the technical performance/accuracy.

and:
even more immersive musical experience.
or
adds elements of resolution and refinement
or
Arresting sound
or
It organically resolves the finest details and uncovers textures and subtleties that most systems overlook
or
reveals each aspect of a recording with a sense of effortless refinement and control
or
unrivalled in its sonic and technical performance.
or
an even greater sense of dynamic drive, detail, finesse and vitality.

and so on.

All of which speak of the sonic experience.


In any case, I'll leave it there. If you can't see that difference, further discussion is not going to change that.

 

[DSJR]

Back to Chord Electronics - has anyone ever 'heard' a complete Chord source-amp system here? My own findings over many years indicates that any so-called 'advantage' in the steep dac filters is irrelevant as the amps I've heard over many years seem to remove fine details with just a 'dry' and ballistic remainder...

 

[Purité Audio]

I have but only at UK shows didn’t they use to partner with Wilson Benesch at some point?
I remember hearing them somewhere in a really large room, no acoustic treatment so the room totally dominated.
Keith

 

[raif71]

I'm sorry, what is BS now?

Best Selling ?

 

[SIY]

as the amps I've heard over many years seem to remove fine details with just a 'dry' and ballistic remainder...

Could you describe the experimental setup you used to determine this?

 

[Mart68]

Back to Chord Electronics - has anyone ever 'heard' a complete Chord source-amp system here? My own findings over many years indicates that any so-called 'advantage' in the steep dac filters is irrelevant as the amps I've heard over many years seem to remove fine details with just a 'dry' and ballistic remainder...

Yes - the last time was at NWA show middle of last year. It was DAVE plus some of their mega money pre-powers.

NEAT tower speakers IIRC. It was just okay, the speakers were...unspectacular...nothing special was happening to justify the price tags.

 

[YSC]

I'd agree it is skating close to the edge - and as I stated above, if they are stating better sound experience, that is equally unacceptable.

But can't you see the difference between:

Better THD+N, flatter FR, etc. All of which speak of the technical performance/accuracy.

and:
even more immersive musical experience.
or
adds elements of resolution and refinement
or
Arresting sound
or
It organically resolves the finest details and uncovers textures and subtleties that most systems overlook
or
reveals each aspect of a recording with a sense of effortless refinement and control
or
unrivalled in its sonic and technical performance.
or
an even greater sense of dynamic drive, detail, finesse and vitality.

and so on.

All of which speak of the sonic experience.


In any case, I'll leave it there. If you can't see that difference, further discussion is not going to change that.

I think we can agree to disagree, I am more relaxed, if a company’s product did perform objectively well I don’t consider them scamming, only over priced, and it’s all fine if the wealthy pay for that, surely I won’t be one

 

[Theta]

Over priced does not always mean huge profit margin.