Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary Speaker Review

[goat76]

You couldn't even safely remove the grilles on my original 60's Dentons, nor my IMF Compacts from the early 70's as they were basically pinned on and needed extreme care to prise them off. I don't know why so many audiophiles like to show off the fugly drivers and baffle screws, but obviously they do and that's why front baffles are usually presented well these days. Even these, apparently designed and 'voiced' to have the grilles fitted, have a nicely veneered front baffle.

I usually prefer the look on most loudspeakers without the grills, but with the reviewed speakers I would definitely use the grills as the drivers look way too modern compared to the rest of the design. Amir noticed the same with the modern-looking binding posts, but they are at least on the backside of the speakers and I wouldn't be too bothered about that.

The Denton’s should definitely have been measured with the grills on.

 

[thewas]

Shoot. You are right. The label is incorrect for the grill on. Orange is with the grill.

So the measurement shows quite an improvement with the grille on like at the Linton from Erin. The corresponding plot and comment should be changed on the first page and now even more a full spin be performed.

No, it is about 8 dB if you look at the anechoic measurement:

The dip around 3 khz is around 81 dB whereas the peak 5 khz is near 89 dB.

He clearly wrote green curve (listening window) which doesn't show that and really is around +/- 2 dB between 300 Hz- 16 kHz as he claimed.
Also your one measurement with the grille on shows that even the other curves will get probably even smoother with it.

 

[amirm]

So the measurement shows quite an improvement with the grille on like at the Linton from Erin. The corresponding plot and comment should be changed on the first page and now even more a full spin be performed.

What are you talking about? The text in the graph (in orange) is correct. It is just the graph label on top that is incorrect. Response got worse in some respects, and slightly better in other. No way you can draw the conclusion you are stating:

Explain to me why the orange line is better.

 

[Thomas_A]

No, it is about 8 dB if you look at the anechoic measurement:

The dip around 3 khz is around 81 dB whereas the peak 5 khz is near 89 dB.

Kind of expected given the baffle design giving strong diffraction. Listening window is much smoother which confirms baffle effects. Both the results and given the retro design would make me wonder if the design needs the grille. Only the designer of the speaker can answer that.

 

[thewas]

Kind of expected given the baffle design giving strong diffraction. Listening window is much smoother which confirms baffle effects. Both the results and given the retro design would make me wonder if the design needs the grille. Only the designer of the speaker can answer that.

Erins measurements of its larger brother had long ago confirmed such (also said in some interviews from its designed Peter Comeau)

Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary Speaker Review

Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[ooheadsoo]

Isn't the orange line the non grill?

 

[amirm]

Isn't the orange line the non grill?

No, the label is wrong. It is with grill.

 

[DSJR]

I knew Peter Comeau quite well forty odd many years ago as we were one of if not the largest Heybrook dealer in the UK back then. I doubt he'd recognise me now but I've respected his work and learning on his journey into designing some very popular speakers from the AIG stable. He's still an analogue/vinyl fan though over the dreaded 'digital' I recall from a fairly recent interview he did (sorry, can't remember which one) and if that's really the case, it may have a bearing on some of his design thoughts.

Thing is, the company obviously thought the Denton 80th could be tweaked and maybe improved, hence the practically all new 85th version. The Linton which doesn't seem to sell in the UK as this market actually doesn't 'get' the retro vibe according to a rep for the company, seems to be where it all starts to come right (I still would love to compare with the Harbeth C7-XD at three times the price!!!) and don't they have a Dovedale re-imagining at five grand or so? Now *that one* would be fascinating to hear... Mind you, add a good amp with some welly and you're within spitting distance of Neumann KH420's which, appearance apart, would no doubt eat them alive!!!

 

[PuX]

I just realised that for headphone reviews often there's a part of the review that speaks about EQ, but in speaker reviews there is no such section.
is there a reason for this? is it due to room sound affecting frequency response? I personally don't use EQ so it's not obvious for me.

 

[beagleman]

I don't know why anyone would go for a pair of these over the diamond 12.1.

Possibly the retro looks most likely.

 

[OfficialChill]

I always feel people that do not even contribute some dollars for these testings they like to comment on should be more humble in passing judgement on the effort Amir is bringing into his work.

Critiquing methodology is an inherently scientific thing to do. You dont see this sort of argument when institutes shell out millions on a study and other people provide feedback

 

[OfficialChill]

You like your doctor to diagnose you without measurements as well?

That’s a strawman argument. No one said without measurements

 

[beagleman]

Disappointed that the speaker wasn't measured with the grills on, which is the intended design according the Peter Comeau. From the one on-axis measurement that Amir showed, it doesn't look bad at all. It still may be bright but it should sound much smoother with much less diffraction going on.

Erin did it right. The Linton looked much poorer with the grills off, and so he presented the full spinorama of the grill-on configuration. I always feel he's much more thorough in testing out the different combinations of said product before passing judgement on it (also trying out the different user selectable EQ settings to see which one is the most accurate)

This speaker has been cleared out near the $500 mark forever with the 85th model which is the sibling model of the Linton

But the 80th and 85th are actually completely different speakers. (not saying you are wrong, but elaborating on your comment)

The 85th is a somewhat larger model with a 6.5" low midwoofer and new tweeter style, whereas the older 80th is a 5" low frequency driver.

Although they look similar, that is where the similarity ends.

I also read both ASR and Erin's stuff, and while I often agree with both guys, I also disagree with both at times also. I would not put so much "Weight" on any one approach, as both guys have completely different "Styles" and how they do things, but I appreciate both. No one is perfect, and both these guys are putting a LOT of time and effort into doing this type of stuff, so perhaps you comment comes off a bit "Strong" and could have been less "BOLD" with a tone more towards asking why Amir uses his approach etc.

 

[Kevin1956]

No, the label is wrong. It is with grill.

I think there is confusion about this for some of us, as the orange measurement has some peaks and dips that seem to more closely resemble your initial measurements, while the green measurement seems much smoother than your initial measurement, leading us to believe that would have been the “grille on” measurement.

BTW, thanks for the site, and all the hard work that goes into it.

 

[Rick Sykora]

But the 80th and 85th are actually completely different speakers. (not saying you are wrong, but elaborating on your comment)

The 85th is a somewhat larger model with a 6.5" low midwoofer and new tweeter style, whereas the older 80th is a 5" low frequency driver.

Although they look similar, that is where the similarity ends.

I also read both ASR and Erin's stuff, and while I often agree with both guys, I also disagree with both at times also. I would not put so much "Weight" on any one approach, as both guys have completely different "Styles" and how they do things, but I appreciate both. No one is perfect, and both these guys are putting a LOT of time and effort into doing this type of stuff, so perhaps you comment comes off a bit "Strong" and could have been less "BOLD" with a tone more towards asking why Amir uses his approach etc.

Nicely stated. Could not agree more about how different Amir and Erin are, and it is just that. Too often lately, some want to push us towards absolutes, and many things are rarely that way. Some change over time too. In the early days, EAC's reviews had a Stereophile flair to them. Now his reviews are much more related to measurements and cannot tell whether he listened to the speaker before or after he measured. Frankly, could care less too. There is no absolute best speaker and to take any reviewer's position as definitive seems shortsighted to me.

As for Amir's approach, he has videos and numerous other threads that have discussed and debated. Unless one wants to be seen as trolling, imo, would be best not to take public potshots at him on the latest review thread. Otherwise, it is just impolite. Would not ever to go to a public presentation, announce to the presenter that their peer's work is superior and hope they are awed by my great insight. For some reason, some seem to think that might work well here. Like your suggestion to ask rather than make claims about another's position. I would add that it helps to try to understand their perspective before expecting something of them.


p.s.

I think it is worth noting that EAC is NOT testing every review speaker with grilles both on and off. Given most speakers perform better without their grilles, it is unusual to test with them on.

 

[MAB]

No, the label is wrong. It is with grill.

I am also very confused as to the measurements and the colors in the graphs. It's unfortunate, since it is likely my confusion trying to piece this review together over multiple pages.

 

[ooheadsoo]

I think there is confusion about this for some of us, as the orange measurement has some peaks and dips that seem to more closely resemble your initial measurements, while the green measurement seems much smoother than your initial measurement, leading us to believe that would have been the “grille on” measurement.

BTW, thanks for the site, and all the hard work that goes into it.

@amirm, I'm with Kevin here, the orange graph does seem to more closely resemble your original measurements.

The Linton grill had, I believe, smooth bevels hidden by the grill cloth that helped smooth out the diffraction, so I think we're all wondering if that's also the case here.

 

[ta240]

Before you walk in, they weigh you, take your temp and blood pressure. Measurements are that important to them. If you say you have a sore throat, they run a culture to test for infection. If you say you fell and now your elbow hurts, they do an X-ray to see if anything is broken. I don't know anyone who praises a doctor because they don't do any testing and yet diagnose what is wrong with you. If anything, I much appreciate it if a diagnostic is backed at the same time with testing as opposed to a pure guess as informed as that might be.

Remember that there is zero research backing evaluation of a headphone or speaker by itself. Proper tests not only call for the test to be blind, but also being a multi-way comparison of 4 or 5 speakers. It is that contrast that tells you which speaker may be higher fidelity than another. Unpacking and listening to a speaker without such comparison basically means random data.

I use measurements to create EQ and then perform that multi-way comparison, blind if need be. It is only then that I build confidence in my subjective testing.

Just because someone is doing objective measurements doesn't mean that they are all of a sudden producing reliable subjective results when they listen to a speaker just like other joe subjective reviewer does.

The point will always remain that we mock people when the salesman tells them what they are about to hear and then they 'hear' it, yet you are doing the exact same thing.
And how can the phrase 'blind if need be' even be used when people are literally shouted down on here that state they heard a difference in a non-double blind test?

 

[ta240]

Before you walk in, they weigh you, take your temp and blood pressure. Measurements are that important to them.

Getting the basic measurements at the doctor is the equivalent of the sommelier telling you it is a red wine from a specific winery in Napa.
Getting the full suite of measurements on a speaker first is the equivalent of them telling you that you exactly what you will taste first.

 

[Philipp]

Critiquing

I am for doing that in an appropriate tone and by showing appriciation. When it sounds like entitlement it does not help the discussion.