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KEF Q350 Speaker Review

HarmonicTHD

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Would stuffing it full of acoustic form help performance?
Soundproof-Foam-Panel-AVE-ISOPYRAMID-1-500x500.jpg
Unless you have “before” and “after” measurements you will never know. Plus you never know if you worsened other aspects.

Forget doing it by ear.
 

Music1969

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Unless you have “before” and “after” measurements you will never know. Plus you never know if you worsened other aspects.

Forget doing it by ear.

Anyone have suggestions on what to use on inside to help reduce cabinet resonance ?

Apart from bracing being the main thing - can lining the insides with something help?

Someone mentioned bitumen sheets - butyl rubber sheet good for cabinet vibrations absorption ? @restorer-john @solderdude Generally speaking, not just this particular speaker
 

tw 2022

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Anyone have suggestions on what to use on inside to help reduce cabinet resonance ?

Apart from bracing being the main thing - can lining the insides with something help?

Someone mentioned bitumen sheets - butyl rubber sheet good for cabinet vibrations absorption ? @restorer-john @solderdude Generally speaking, not just this particular speaker
Put some no res in the cab... If you don't like the results remove it...
 

DMill

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What is no res? can you share a link so i can see ?

Maybe in my country it has a different name
It is a speaker dampening product made by GR research. You can google it, no rez. I would put a link here but my conscience won’t allow it. :)
 

Music1969

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I figured I'll add one extra bracing in each speaker and add this cheap from Amazon


Plus a lot of acoustic foam inside

Will measure before and after
 
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Rednaxela

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It seems they use different scalings there and i get this graph when before and after is overlaid, it could be their total modification is a general improvement but looking isolated the port curve looks to be worse after using their dampening material :confused:..
View attachment 105769
Very good point.

Just for my own understanding I replicated your overlay, aligning them at the same point i.e. the ~220 Hz port curve blip.

Red = stock, coloured + black = final.

1692859464959.png


What's kind of unfortunate is that the comparison has both the new crossover and the Sonofil addition in it, making it a bit difficult to assess the damping material effect in isolation.

The curve between 500Hz and 900Hz does look smoother. The dip at 1kHz seems to have moved up a bit and gotten a lot sharper. Which may or may not be an improvement. Quite a shame that 1kHz is also where the otherwise very nice directivity has a little dent.
 

Rednaxela

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These Stereophile measurements have been linked to before.

What intrigues me about them is this part.

The [impedance and phase vs. frequency] traces in figs.1 and 2 have a small wrinkle between 600 and 700Hz, suggesting the presence of a cabinet resonance in that region. However, when I investigated the vibrational behavior of the enclosure panels with an accelerometer, there was nothing untoward between 600 and 700Hz. However, there was a fairly strong mode at 309Hz on all surfaces (fig.3), and a slightly less strong one at 504Hz.

318K350fig3.jpg

Interestingly, I can’t seem to find back any hint of these two modes in @amirm’s measurements.

Would this mean there is no real cabinet resonance issue, and attempts at combating it (bracing, bitumen etc.) are in fact futile?
 

Buckster

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bought a pair to use as Atmos rears (located on the top of a very high bookcase) to replace some very very old Tannoy speakers

wow what a difference - much larger than I was expecting (for the positive) and not EQ'd yet

they were £269 as manufacturer refurbs which I thought was a very good price
 

Rednaxela

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Suppose @staticV3 is wrong indeed - how would you explain your observation?

I mean they surely don't make it red for no reason?
 

thewas

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Depending on the feeded signals amplitude of course it might not clip, by the way the integration of EQ Apo in windows doesn't allow a hard clipping but more a kind of compression which is not as audible so it makes sense to use an appropriate preamp magnitude to avoid such positive (red) total gains.
 

staticV3

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No, you're wrong. You can check it yourself. (using ears and test tone for example, or take measurements)
Here you go:
Screenshot 2023-11-23 122709.jpg
PEQ Frequency response with and without pre amp.png PEQ THD without pre amp.png PEQ THD with pre amp.png

I used REW's measurement sweep test tone at 0dBFS for this test to show the worst case scenario.

Without a pre amp, the filter's frequency response cannot be reproduced as EQApo cannot boost signals above digital full-scale.

This also results in massively increased THD from digital hard-clipping.

When you apply a negative pre amp first, then suddenly everything is fine.
 

soulfresh

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KEF Q350 + Yamaha WXA-50 v KEF Q350 + Wiim Amp

I'm not a trained or someone with a lot of experience. I've have been looking at replacing my Yamaha WXA-50 for a few years and was looking at Bluesound Powernode N330 for a year or two but cannot justify spending 3 times as much as my WXA-50, was very excited when Wiim Amp provided all the the things I needed (expecially HDMI ARC) for the same price of a brand new WXA-50. I couldn't find any reviews similar to mine from WXA-50 to Wiim Amp with KEF Q350 speakers, so if there's anyone other there who liked to know, I just like to share some of my experience for those that might find this useful.

Background & Setup

I do have some specific Spotify playlists of various genres just for own EQ adjustments. Some classical, opera, Electronic, Jazz and Pop songs. Listening distance is approx. 2.5 meters, speakers are placed just in front of wall and sofa is in the middle of the room (back wall is also approx. 2.5 meters). Products should always be reviewed as a whole experience but I'm excluding a lot of the features and various things as I consider them least important for my use case and subjective opinion. I listened/tested mainly via Spotify Connect on both setup.

Key points

  1. The WXA-50 sound is much cleaner/clearer than that the WIIM Amp from my subjective opinion especially in the mids. With the Wiim Amp, it sounded a bit muddy especially when there are lots of elements in songs and particularly noticeable when listening to EDM/Electronica (perhaps it's exposing the issues as Amir mentioned in his tests).
  2. The WXA-50 sounds great as it complements the shortcomings with muddy mids of Q350 while retaining the clarity with the highs, yet have to make some adjustments as it can be quite fatiguing after a while. As Yamaha sound signature (based on what I read), it's normally very clinical or neutral sounding.
  3. Both support all the main streaming services and integrates with them as good as Wiim App that most people will ever need. At the time of writing, the WXA-50 Google Home automation integration have much more control of the device comparing to Wiim Amp; especially with the ability to switch Input sources. (I used this to ensure my custom "TV On" routine will always change the input to Toslink/Optical which is my amp's main use-case and yes I'm lazy without changing input after finishing listening without manually sources before switching off the amp.)
  4. The biggest issue with the WXA-50 is the only digital input is Toslink/Optical without HDMI ARC. This is the reason why I sold it and bought Wiim AMP. Hate using a smart remote just so that I can control the TV volume and/or switch the amp on/off.
  5. The low frequencies with the WXA-50 with the lacklustre EQ adjustability (Low/Mid/High) plus "Bass extension" toggle, the low/bass sounded quite anaemic. Might be the so called Yamaha's signature "clinical" sound?! Just lack the oomph when comparing to Wiim Amp. I did have to EQ Wiim Amp (see attachment) to make it sound a bit less congested in the mids while suiting my own listening preference for both music and watching TV. I based the EQ off the "Hip Hop" preset and made some minor adjustments for added depth and punch in the low end.
  6. The WXA-50 have subwoofer output that is more like a pre-out (without crossover options). For most people this is not good and a bit silly as most people will be using their amp for bookshelf speakers rather than floor stand speakers. But for my use case, I prefer this as I like to control the cutover using external component as I used the subwoofer output for a pair of Dayton Audio BST-300EX bass transducers mounted at the bottom of the sofa's wooden frame rather than a traditional subwoofer. The Wiim Amp forces you to set crossover frequency. I did submit a request via Wiim Amp as a feature request to have an option for full frequency output.

    * Note: The WXA-50 auto switches input when the it detects signal on other inputs other than you currently are using. This a nice feature that is also quite subjective and good/bad depending on individual. I'll wrap it here as it's has nothing to do with the KEF Q350 as starting to focus on WXA-50/Wiim amp.

Overall, I'm still happy with my KEF Q350 purchase. It's a great pair of speakers just lack a bit of bass for my liking when listening to music genres that needed it. Again, I'm not an audiophile or have lots of Hi-fi equipment for reference. The highs are just amazing for the price (I got them almost less than twice its current selling price now).

At the same time I'm happy with both amps as combination with the speakers but bought the Wiim Amp mostly because of HDMI ARC in addition of more EQ control. I sold my WXA-50 half the price I paid for after owning it for over 6 years. I consider this as exceptional value. The WXA-50 costs much more now and the hardware hasn't been updated since it came to market over 8 years ago. Yamaha (and other manufacturers) really need to revise their products. Perhaps the WXA-50 is more targeted towards in-ceiling speakers setup (retailers usually bundle them in such packages). The WXA-50's WIFI b/g/n and bi-directional bluetooth 2.1 is based on 10 year old spec. A revision is long overdue and definitely needed for their Yamaha's nifty amp.

And as for my Wiim amp, thankfully no issues that most people reported so far like device noise/coil-whine, HDMI ARC related issues reported mostly by European owners on Wiim/ASR forums. Either amp paired with KEF Q350 is a fantastic combo. Both have it's own pros and cons depending on use-case.

I would highly recommend that anyone with the KEF Q350 to consider a subwoofer regardless of whatever amp you'll use; I would if not living in an apartment. Whoever tells you that bookshelf speakers don't need a subwoofer is like boring people buying/wearing checkered pattern shirts lol!
 

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VladimirJ

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Hi,
Thanks for this information.
I am a WXA-50 owner as well and have a WiiM Amp on order.
Although I generaly like Yamaha's sound, I find it a bit dry and clinical at times. As well, I could never make tone adjustments in the web settings app (type of speakers, etc...) - they were always grayed and unavailable for me. Don't know why and couldn't rectify the issue.
I didn't find any more details about the WiiM sound other than it sounded "muddy" in comparison to the WXA. Could you please give us a bit more details about how you find the WiiM sound?
As well, is the WiiM loud enough? I think that WXA is a bit anemic and lacking power. Is it the case with WiiM as well, in your opinion?
Thank you very much.
Cheers
 

soulfresh

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Hi,
Thanks for this information.
I am a WXA-50 owner as well and have a WiiM Amp on order.
Although I generaly like Yamaha's sound, I find it a bit dry and clinical at times. As well, I could never make tone adjustments in the web settings app (type of speakers, etc...) - they were always grayed and unavailable for me. Don't know why and couldn't rectify the issue.
I didn't find any more details about the WiiM sound other than it sounded "muddy" in comparison to the WXA. Could you please give us a bit more details about how you find the WiiM sound?
As well, is the WiiM loud enough? I think that WXA is a bit anemic and lacking power. Is it the case with WiiM as well, in your opinion?
Thank you very much.
Cheers
You need to disable "Direct mode" in order to one be able to adjust EQ. It's explicitly stated in their manual. I'd probably stay away from the Web settings and us the MusicCast mobile app which is much more intuitive. That web settings is one of the ugliest interface I've seen comparable to some cheap Wireless router you get off eBay!

As I stated even EQ adjustments on WXA-50, the bass (low) isn't good. As mentioned you have limited EQ adjustability Low/Mid/High. Whereas the WiiM amp, your have Graphic EQ and Parametric EQ (for the pros. with proper tools like Amir and they know what they're doing).
  • The WiiM sounded much better overall for my listening taste as I can tweak around the Graphic EQ to suit me and the EQ have already been changed again since my original post. Again "muddy" is when WiiM amp + Q350 when you leave all EQ to default. This can also be attributed purely to Q350 rather the WiiM amp itself. Even Amir did mentioned he had to make Parametric EQ to correct some of the issues. So it might be just the inherited issue of the speakers rather than the amp.
  • WiiM is definitely loud enough for me (I even set a Volume limit to 90% in the app). I do like cranking up volume when listening to music. Loud enough for my listening distance at least.
  • I don't think the WXA-50 is anaemic or lack of power overall. It's just the bass/low-end frequencies possibly only with Q350 but that's very much a Yamaha sound signature
  • I still think WXA-50 still sounded a bit clearer (maybe more separation or 'timbre" if I understand the term correctly) in the mid-upper-to-high. Female vocals and string instruments sound much better than WiiM amp with the Q350. As I've been using WXA-50 with the Q350 for over 6 years, I might have become used to brighter sound. I do remember that I did felt fatigued initially listening to Q350 + WXA-50 and which the sound was a bit warmer in the mids all those years ago.
Again, my experience and comments are highly subjective and very likely to be very wrong. My listening distance, room makeup, speaker placements, individual listening preference, etc. can affect the sound characteristics. I'd suggest you wait for WiiM amp arrive to determine yourself. No measurements or comments from anyone (inc. experts) except yourself to determine if the sound is better in your scenario. I'd love to hear back from you though once you got it!

No buyer's remorse. I'm happy to have replaced my WXA-50 with WiiM amp with Q350s for my use case. The features available on WiiM app comparing with MusicCast is much better from my perspective for what I needed. I'm happy with my overall setup and package (Q350 + WiiM amp).
 
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