I also had a 4308 before I switched to AVPs, two Marantz AVPs later I switched back to AVR, the 4400 that should be very similar to the 4700 in the preamp/DAC signal path. The thing is, I don't recall noticing much difference that I perceived in output levels between any of them, let alone 15 dB!! For such a huge difference, I would have to guess something is wrong. May be the quickest way is to find out is to do a factory reset and see what happens. Hopefully it is just setting related.
By the way, what are you using to play that "quietest CD", and can you described how you connect everything together, from the source player through to the 4700?
Thanks Peng. Are there differences in volume scales between 4308 and 4700? You mention +82.5 but I use the other scale the AVRs support, increasing towards 0dB.
Are you saying that -15dB setting should be perceived the same on 4308 and 4700, with all other things being equal?
I will do the factory reset but I assumed Pure Direct would bypass all internal settings that would could this issue.
This is FLAC rip, using Roon music player, set to Exclusive Mode (bit perfect playback).
Same settings for both AVRs, so source levels are identical
But also my earlier query about boosting the input source level of 4700 AVR - can that can digital clipping in the AVR running in Pure Direct mode ? Or is there internal digital headroom in the DAC to compensate for this?
I would guess that Denon checked there is headroom in the DAC, before allowing users to boost +12dB using that feature ?
I would guess that Denon checked there is headroom in the DAC, before allowing users to boost +12dB using that feature ?
I have an X4500 (basically the same as the X4700). With the comment about the highest you can go is 1.4V before clipping
I am currently looking at a B&K amp that it's input sensitivity is exactly 1.4v per the specification, is this cause for concern?
Is there any chance crosstalk data is available for the preouts on x4700 or x3700?
I am assuming it's better than the amplifier results...
I am contemplating purchasing a Denon AVR-X4700H for my new home (which will be built soon).
I read through most of this thread, but I did not see if anybody used this receiver like I will be using it:
Main “Theater” Room = 5.2 with Revel Concerta F36 mains and large monitor/TV.
Kitchen (Zone 2)= 2 stereo speakers mounted on wall with smaller monitor/TV
Outdoor Covered Porch (Zone 3) = 2 outdoor stereo speakers (no monitor)
Will this be a good AVR for this application?
That is not correct. The preamp did not clip at 1.4v, it was said that the power amp would start to clip at that point and the distortions of the power amp therefore began to affect (fed back) to the preamp output. You can see from the dash board that even at 2 volts, total distortions plus noise was about 0.016%, still lower than some of the separated prepamp/processors tested, for example the Marantz AV7705 did slightly worse under the same condition (@3.95 V XLR, that is equivalent to 1.975 V when matched with power amps such as Marantz, Yamaha etc., that has -6 dB lower gain when XLR inputs are used.
I don't know how many more times we have to clarify this point. Amir's comments quoted below could indeed easily confuse people who don't read between the lines. The same or similar question has been raised multiple times (I didn't count, just the feeling..).
"With the amp turned on, the highest you can go is 1.4 volts before clipping occurs and performance drops precipitously. So make sure to look up the specifications for your external amplifier to see what its "sensitivity" is that generates its maximum power. If it is below 1.4 volts, then you are good."
Again, "clipping" in that comment referred to the build in power amp. If the preamp in fact started to clip at 1.4 V, then by the time it reaches 2 V, you would have seen much higher distortions plus noise than 0.016%.
In any case, if you want more pristine preamp output at higher than 1.4 V output level from the front left and right channel, you can use the amp assign feature to disconnect the power amps for those two channels. If you want to same better performance for all channels then you have to go with the X4700H that has a preamp mode.
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If you have the AVR in preamp mode, there is no reason to run eco mode. On models without preamp mode, using eco mode is recommended so as not to reduce the output voltage since the amps are on.Eco mode makes the amps clip sooner, the voltage is approximately halved. Does clipping in eco mode affect the preamp the same way, causing distortion?
Eco mode makes the amps clip sooner, the voltage is approximately halved. Does clipping in eco mode affect the preamp the same way, causing distortion?
Eco mode makes the amps clip sooner, the voltage is approximately halved. Does clipping in eco mode affect the preamp the same way, causing distortion?
Looking at photos of the back panel, I don't see a USB input for audio. I assumed there would be. How does one connect the USB audio output from a computer to AVRs as an input?
Looking at photos of the back panel, I don't see a USB input for audio. I assumed there would be. How does one connect the USB audio output from a computer to AVRs as an input?