- Thread Starter
- #441
Oh, I thought you had the 990. Until I test the 1990, my EQ should not be applied to that.Amirm ,its exactly what you posted but someone mentioned the DT1990 Pro is different from the 990
Oh, I thought you had the 990. Until I test the 1990, my EQ should not be applied to that.Amirm ,its exactly what you posted but someone mentioned the DT1990 Pro is different from the 990
Then it shouldn't make the sound "much brighter". It should be much duller.its exactly what you posted
That's a possibility, but that poster was also talking about the higher-end DT1990.Then it shouldn't make the sound "much brighter". It should be much duller.
Make sure there's a minus sign in front of the gain amounts for band 1, 2, and 4.
Yeah I was talking about DT 1990 pro which someone mentioned has a different audio profileThat's a possibility, but that poster was also talking about the higher-end DT1990.
If I have already owned the headphone, obviously yes. Otherwise no. I don't like hunting in the dark. Measurements provide a guide and hypothesis to verify with listening tests. Combine the two together and you have powerful conclusions. Rely on what you are suggesting and you could very well be producing wrong results. Remember, the purpose here is to test a headphone and provide reliable and durable outcomes, not to have it be a quiz for me to pass in every review.
Implicit in your question is that I have preconceived notions of the sound of a headphone based on measurements alone. If this were the case, then I would not bother with listening! I listen because I can't strongly determine how good or bad some response error is until I have tested that part by itself. EQ allows me to remove or add back in any deviation in response on demand, and if needed blindly. This is a powerful technique.
And no, it is rarely if ever subject to bias. I can't tell you how many times I have clicked on and off and wondering why there was no difference in sound, only to find out that EQ was turned off altogether. In other words, I am able to easily catch mistakes this way. To the extent an EQ correction is too minor, and hence have some placebo factor, then I mark it such and note it in the review. Most of the corrections are quite large and clearly audible as is the case with this headphone.
I have started buying items (iem,hp, amp, and DAC.) From these tests to 1: see for myself and 2: find the best one or several for me.This is a review and detailed measurements of the Beyerdynamic DT990 (250 ohm) open back headphone. A member was kind enough to purchase one new and drop ship it to me due to request from membership! The DT990 costs about $160 and has been around for many years.
I like the look of the DT 990:
View attachment 109718
The pads felt hard at first but after just a couple of hours of use, they became more comfortable. Combined with light weight of the unit, they are nice to wear.
I did not care as much for the plastic cups, nor the sharp edges of meta pieces:
View attachment 109719
The cups are round and large making for easy fit not only around your ears but also the measurement gear. I have never had a headphone so easy to mount on my fixture to measure.
Note: The measurements you are about to see are preformed using standardized GRAS 45CA headphone measurement fixture. Headphone measurements require more interpretation than speaker tests and have more of a requirement for subjective testing as a result. In addition, comparison of measurements between different people performing it using different configurations requires fair bit of skill. So don't look for matching results. Focus on high level picture. Listening tests are performed using RME ADI-2 DAC and its headphone output.
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro Measurements
Let's start with frequency response of DT 990 and comparison to our preference target:
View attachment 109720
We have some serious issues here. The headphone is tuned to produce its max bass output at around 150 Hz below which it drops rapidly. Inverse is in play above 2 kHz where we way overshoot. Predicted response then would be a bit boomy and very sharp and bright. Here is the same as relative measure:
View attachment 109721
Bad news doesn't stop there. Distortion is quite high:
View attachment 109722
View attachment 109723
The DT990 is also extremely insensitive:
View attachment 109724
You better have a very high performance headphone amplifier that can drive its high impedance and provide the required power:
View attachment 109725
Notice how 250 ohm is the minimum impedance. Close to tuning frequency of the headphone, it shoots up to 350 ohm so your headphone amp needs to also have a very low output impedance as to not impact the frequency response of this headphone. Heaven knows you don't want to mess up the response of this headphone any more than it already is!
Group delay response shows some areas you don't want to eq as usual (shown as dip in frequency response) and some fuzziness that I rather not see:
View attachment 109726
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro Headphone Listening Tests and EQ
It took all of a few seconds to want to rip the DT 990 off my head as I always start with female vocals and this headphone shred the vocals to pieces. And proceeded to drill into your head with those shards! This thing is so bright that it brought high frequencies resonances that I did not even think were in the music! This stood out even more because there is little sub-bass energy. The peaking around 150 Hz provides a bit of help there but also can sound a bit boomy on some content.
Distortion was a serious problem. At moderately high level it would add this warbling sound to many tones from vocals and some lower notes. At higher levels bass notes would start to create ticking sounds. You wouldn't normally listen that this level though so it is an engineering failure more than audible one (without EQ).
I am always hopeful that I can fix headphones with EQ but my first two tries last night were met with failure. This headphone's main saving grace is its rather good spatial qualities. Alas, fixing the high frequency peaks and levels by eye killed that aspect and still left the nastiness that was in there at times. Any attempt to boost the bass frequencies resulted in nasty bass distortion and worse warbling sound per above.
Right when I was going to give up, I decided to use an assisted method to develop the EQ. I swept the headphone and manually dialed in EQ settings and iterated to get rid of the peaking in three high frequency bands. This was the result:
View attachment 109727
Focusing on the left, I had dialed in some 6 dB yet the effect was minimal in response. I pushed that up to eve 10 dB and the graph simply did not change indicating the driver is out of gas. Audible effect of that bass boost was horrible with distortion galore. So I took that out. I then found the sound to be rather dull and spatial effects compromised. So I dialed in a shelving filter that boosted the entire range. This was the final result:
View attachment 109728
You can mess with that shelfing filter (Band 5) to your taste. On some content I wanted it higher, on some others, less. The latter is what I am showing here.
I must say, I was surprised how this finally salvaged the headphone sound. I am listening to it as I type this and it almost sounds "normal" in a good way! Mind you, if you turn up the level too much, the warbling sound comes to haunt you but that is likely not your everyday level.
Conclusions
While the DT 990 Pro is a comfortable headphone to wear, it has a seriously flawed design with poor frequency response which exaggerates the heck out of highs and dumps a bunch of distortion in there for good measure. It also lacks deep bass reproduction. Careful equalization did manage to salvage it at the end but took a lot of doing.
I am not going to recommend the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro. It is just too broken. Even though EQ helped a lot, it is still an inefficient headphone with high distortion. If you have one, use my EQ and comment on how you like it. Otherwise it is a pass with or without EQ. Let's hope we can find a headphone as comfortable as this but with much better engineering.
------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.
Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
Like my 990 too,ain't returning either, k371 sounds good keeping those too.Not surprised so many people have issues with their treble.
I've never been a fan of the Beyerdynamic headphones at all, but I've loved the DT-990 Pro 250 from day one.
The treble doesn't even bother me remotely unless it's extremely poor tracks that are super harsh to begin with (like some J-pop).
I actually have had my HD-650 and Q701 in storage thanks to these.
I've used these for 2 years now and don't have one complaint.
I actually find my pair to have slightly more elevated low bass than the other two.
Not by much though.
When I listen to all my music on these, there is not a dramatic difference in how it sounds on the other headphones. Yes, I know that's hard to believe!
I have tried the DT-990 Premium and hated those. I've owned the 32 ohm, 250 and 600ohm versions. Yes, pretty stupid to even bother with.
My head was not too compatible with those since the cups aren't as deep and my ears would be crushed against the insides of the cups.
Maybe this is why the treble is better on the PRO version for me?
I also wear glasses, but not sure if that makes much difference.
There is almost no clamp on the PRO for me at all.
Know what recently was extremely painful for me to listen to? AKG K371! Yes, really.
The most painful treble in a headphone I've ever heard though was the Grado SR-325 Gold Version.
The first K701 was also painful on the Schiit Asgard 1. Don't anyone ever try that combination!
I bet that would be the worst measuring amp ever. I do love my Magni 3+ though!
It's finally something I found to be as good as my old Headroom Micro Amp (under $300).
Here's another weird fact though that makes no sense.
The most neutral sounding headphone I ever heard was a Beyer DT-770 600 ohm headphone.
Most people who have it said it's some sort of a bass monster!
Mine must have been broken or something. Not sure what was going on there!
The most neutral sounding headphone I ever heard was a Beyer DT-770 600 ohm headphone.
Most people who have it said it's some sort of a bass monster!
Mine must have been broken or something. Not sure what was going on there!
Hello! I have the 990 Pro, i'm now using them with the fx audio dac x6, but i would like to upgrade to something below 200 euros, do you have any advise?This is a review and detailed measurements of the Beyerdynamic DT990 (250 ohm) open back headphone. A member was kind enough to purchase one new and drop ship it to me due to request from membership! The DT990 costs about $160 and has been around for many years.
I like the look of the DT 990:
View attachment 109718
The pads felt hard at first but after just a couple of hours of use, they became more comfortable. Combined with light weight of the unit, they are nice to wear.
I did not care as much for the plastic cups, nor the sharp edges of meta pieces:
View attachment 109719
The cups are round and large making for easy fit not only around your ears but also the measurement gear. I have never had a headphone so easy to mount on my fixture to measure.
Note: The measurements you are about to see are preformed using standardized GRAS 45CA headphone measurement fixture. Headphone measurements require more interpretation than speaker tests and have more of a requirement for subjective testing as a result. In addition, comparison of measurements between different people performing it using different configurations requires fair bit of skill. So don't look for matching results. Focus on high level picture. Listening tests are performed using RME ADI-2 DAC and its headphone output.
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro Measurements
Let's start with frequency response of DT 990 and comparison to our preference target:
View attachment 109720
We have some serious issues here. The headphone is tuned to produce its max bass output at around 150 Hz below which it drops rapidly. Inverse is in play above 2 kHz where we way overshoot. Predicted response then would be a bit boomy and very sharp and bright. Here is the same as relative measure:
View attachment 109721
Bad news doesn't stop there. Distortion is quite high:
View attachment 109722
View attachment 109723
The DT990 is also extremely insensitive:
View attachment 109724
You better have a very high performance headphone amplifier that can drive its high impedance and provide the required power:
View attachment 109725
Notice how 250 ohm is the minimum impedance. Close to tuning frequency of the headphone, it shoots up to 350 ohm so your headphone amp needs to also have a very low output impedance as to not impact the frequency response of this headphone. Heaven knows you don't want to mess up the response of this headphone any more than it already is!
Group delay response shows some areas you don't want to eq as usual (shown as dip in frequency response) and some fuzziness that I rather not see:
View attachment 109726
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro Headphone Listening Tests and EQ
It took all of a few seconds to want to rip the DT 990 off my head as I always start with female vocals and this headphone shred the vocals to pieces. And proceeded to drill into your head with those shards! This thing is so bright that it brought high frequencies resonances that I did not even think were in the music! This stood out even more because there is little sub-bass energy. The peaking around 150 Hz provides a bit of help there but also can sound a bit boomy on some content.
Distortion was a serious problem. At moderately high level it would add this warbling sound to many tones from vocals and some lower notes. At higher levels bass notes would start to create ticking sounds. You wouldn't normally listen that this level though so it is an engineering failure more than audible one (without EQ).
I am always hopeful that I can fix headphones with EQ but my first two tries last night were met with failure. This headphone's main saving grace is its rather good spatial qualities. Alas, fixing the high frequency peaks and levels by eye killed that aspect and still left the nastiness that was in there at times. Any attempt to boost the bass frequencies resulted in nasty bass distortion and worse warbling sound per above.
Right when I was going to give up, I decided to use an assisted method to develop the EQ. I swept the headphone and manually dialed in EQ settings and iterated to get rid of the peaking in three high frequency bands. This was the result:
View attachment 109727
Focusing on the left, I had dialed in some 6 dB yet the effect was minimal in response. I pushed that up to eve 10 dB and the graph simply did not change indicating the driver is out of gas. Audible effect of that bass boost was horrible with distortion galore. So I took that out. I then found the sound to be rather dull and spatial effects compromised. So I dialed in a shelving filter that boosted the entire range. This was the final result:
View attachment 109728
You can mess with that shelfing filter (Band 5) to your taste. On some content I wanted it higher, on some others, less. The latter is what I am showing here.
I must say, I was surprised how this finally salvaged the headphone sound. I am listening to it as I type this and it almost sounds "normal" in a good way! Mind you, if you turn up the level too much, the warbling sound comes to haunt you but that is likely not your everyday level.
Conclusions
While the DT 990 Pro is a comfortable headphone to wear, it has a seriously flawed design with poor frequency response which exaggerates the heck out of highs and dumps a bunch of distortion in there for good measure. It also lacks deep bass reproduction. Careful equalization did manage to salvage it at the end but took a lot of doing.
I am not going to recommend the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro. It is just too broken. Even though EQ helped a lot, it is still an inefficient headphone with high distortion. If you have one, use my EQ and comment on how you like it. Otherwise it is a pass with or without EQ. Let's hope we can find a headphone as comfortable as this but with much better engineering.
------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.
Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
Advice for new headphones or a new dac/amp setup?Hello! I have the 990 Pro, i'm now using them with the fx audio dac x6, but i would like to upgrade to something below 200 euros, do you have any advise?
Thanks
New dac/amp or dac + amp, thanks!Advice for new headphones or a new dac/amp setup?
FiiO K5 ProNew dac/amp or dac + amp, thanks!
New dac/amp or dac + amp, thanks!
Does this one take the cake regarding poor frequency response and bass distortion compared to the 7506 which you reviewed a couple of months ago and billed as "the worst you ever saw"?This is a review and detailed measurements of the Beyerdynamic DT990 (250 ohm) open back headphone. A member was kind enough to purchase one new and drop ship it to me due to request from membership! The DT990 costs about $160 and has been around for many years.
I like the look of the DT 990:
View attachment 109718
The pads felt hard at first but after just a couple of hours of use, they became more comfortable. Combined with light weight of the unit, they are nice to wear.
I did not care as much for the plastic cups, nor the sharp edges of meta pieces:
View attachment 109719
The cups are round and large making for easy fit not only around your ears but also the measurement gear. I have never had a headphone so easy to mount on my fixture to measure.
Note: The measurements you are about to see are preformed using standardized GRAS 45CA headphone measurement fixture. Headphone measurements require more interpretation than speaker tests and have more of a requirement for subjective testing as a result. In addition, comparison of measurements between different people performing it using different configurations requires fair bit of skill. So don't look for matching results. Focus on high level picture. Listening tests are performed using RME ADI-2 DAC and its headphone output.
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro Measurements
Let's start with frequency response of DT 990 and comparison to our preference target:
View attachment 109720
We have some serious issues here. The headphone is tuned to produce its max bass output at around 150 Hz below which it drops rapidly. Inverse is in play above 2 kHz where we way overshoot. Predicted response then would be a bit boomy and very sharp and bright. Here is the same as relative measure:
View attachment 109721
Bad news doesn't stop there. Distortion is quite high:
View attachment 109722
View attachment 109723
The DT990 is also extremely insensitive:
View attachment 109724
You better have a very high performance headphone amplifier that can drive its high impedance and provide the required power:
View attachment 109725
Notice how 250 ohm is the minimum impedance. Close to tuning frequency of the headphone, it shoots up to 350 ohm so your headphone amp needs to also have a very low output impedance as to not impact the frequency response of this headphone. Heaven knows you don't want to mess up the response of this headphone any more than it already is!
Group delay response shows some areas you don't want to eq as usual (shown as dip in frequency response) and some fuzziness that I rather not see:
View attachment 109726
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro Headphone Listening Tests and EQ
It took all of a few seconds to want to rip the DT 990 off my head as I always start with female vocals and this headphone shred the vocals to pieces. And proceeded to drill into your head with those shards! This thing is so bright that it brought high frequencies resonances that I did not even think were in the music! This stood out even more because there is little sub-bass energy. The peaking around 150 Hz provides a bit of help there but also can sound a bit boomy on some content.
Distortion was a serious problem. At moderately high level it would add this warbling sound to many tones from vocals and some lower notes. At higher levels bass notes would start to create ticking sounds. You wouldn't normally listen that this level though so it is an engineering failure more than audible one (without EQ).
I am always hopeful that I can fix headphones with EQ but my first two tries last night were met with failure. This headphone's main saving grace is its rather good spatial qualities. Alas, fixing the high frequency peaks and levels by eye killed that aspect and still left the nastiness that was in there at times. Any attempt to boost the bass frequencies resulted in nasty bass distortion and worse warbling sound per above.
Right when I was going to give up, I decided to use an assisted method to develop the EQ. I swept the headphone and manually dialed in EQ settings and iterated to get rid of the peaking in three high frequency bands. This was the result:
View attachment 109727
Focusing on the left, I had dialed in some 6 dB yet the effect was minimal in response. I pushed that up to eve 10 dB and the graph simply did not change indicating the driver is out of gas. Audible effect of that bass boost was horrible with distortion galore. So I took that out. I then found the sound to be rather dull and spatial effects compromised. So I dialed in a shelving filter that boosted the entire range. This was the final result:
View attachment 109728
You can mess with that shelfing filter (Band 5) to your taste. On some content I wanted it higher, on some others, less. The latter is what I am showing here.
I must say, I was surprised how this finally salvaged the headphone sound. I am listening to it as I type this and it almost sounds "normal" in a good way! Mind you, if you turn up the level too much, the warbling sound comes to haunt you but that is likely not your everyday level.
Conclusions
While the DT 990 Pro is a comfortable headphone to wear, it has a seriously flawed design with poor frequency response which exaggerates the heck out of highs and dumps a bunch of distortion in there for good measure. It also lacks deep bass reproduction. Careful equalization did manage to salvage it at the end but took a lot of doing.
I am not going to recommend the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro. It is just too broken. Even though EQ helped a lot, it is still an inefficient headphone with high distortion. If you have one, use my EQ and comment on how you like it. Otherwise it is a pass with or without EQ. Let's hope we can find a headphone as comfortable as this but with much better engineering.
------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.
Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
Thanks! Yeah i heard about the topping l30 issue, is there now any new model that replace him or for topping stack you mean the l30+e30?There are a lot of different options depending on features and form factor. Some classic stack recommendations would be the JDS Atom + Atom DAC, Schiit Magni Heresy + Modi 3 DAC, the latest Topping stack, etc (though I'd wait to make sure the Topping amp issues get sorted). People seem to like the K5 Pro as an all in one, even if the measurements aren't state of the art. Similarly, I've been really happy with my Qudelix 5k, which functions as a portable bluetooth receiver, DAC, and amp all in one.
Honestly not sure. Hopefully some of the posters here who closely follow the review threads can chime in with suggestions.Thanks! Yeah i heard about the topping l30 issue, is there now any new model that replace him or for topping stack you mean the l30+e30?
I searched the other and only the k5 pro is on amazon.it, do you have any other advise maybe?
Thank you again!
dt880 masterraceSeems like dt880 sales are not on par with dt990