Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro Review (headphone)

[markanini]

This discussion is more suitable for a separate thread so this will be my last reply on the topic. You have to define your standards. Statistics are part of science. Not unsurprisingly all of us used the argument about the amount of studios using a particular model. Harman used statistics to reach its target.
On top of that consider this:
In the crazy world of audio discourse the norm has become to poo poo on anything that's not a flagship, side lining objectively good performing models. The DT990 is very much part of that phenomenon.
Measurements show which headphone tracks closer to the target.
My listening has told me which headphone sounds better to my ears.
That's four different standards which is enough to judge what's a better headphone.
For outliers to be valuable they need to be challenged. In other words, did Yorkshire Mouth try the DT880? If yes then we would know that it's not false data, that would be interesting. But still an outlier.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

It’s a set of Headphones guys. Let’s dial back the angst and remember we’re here to discuss and learn the Science. If you want Subjective opinions and ramblings there are plenty of other sites to choose.

Thats absolutely fair enough.

I think you’ll have to concede that the ‘angst’ and ‘insults’ AGAINST these headphones has previously gone unchallenged.

If I’m wrong, I’m happy to apologise.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I understand your point, but the measures shown on the first page are enough to back up any "insults" towards it beeing a 'treble festival'. In addition, the dt990 are well known as a problematic set for most of us. So, what is the problem of describing them by means of some hyperboles?

Next time I will cite my CV before posting, as the "most experienced studio engineers on the planet" (MESE) are supposed to dictate my preferences more than I thought they would. Right?

Just in case you and the MESE guys think I don't know what I'm talking about...

Spoiler: Treble machine

View attachment 131522

That is fair.

I disagree.

When I compare the measurements on page 1 to those of other headphones, they look ‘brighter’ but not to the extent where it’s hugely different to some others.

 

[Mystical_Light]

The DT990 were my first expensive headphones, i bought them as a student from all my saved money solely because i thought the DT990 is superior to the 880 because of the higher number in naming scheme. Good memories though i listened with them through all my teenage years and so on, never got problems with the treble

 

[mysiak]

New member here, just wanted to say "thank you" for providing the EQ settings, they work wonders.

A bit longer story - I had been a very happy user of DT990 pro 250ohm for about 13 years - I listened to and enjoyed them "as is", without any EQ (maybe just a bit of extra bass boost). However recently I developed quite strong sensitivity to sibilance and sharp trebles (natural age related hearing loss/differences? ear/neural damage? starting tinnitus? long term ear fatigue? not sure). I noticed it not only on these Beyers, but practically with all my headphones and even in real life (small kids can be especially annoying ). I tried to use HW tricks - paper mod (for some reason it distorted bass on slightly higher volume levels) and/or up to 3 layers of 1mm wool felt (didn't do much to sibilance, but made trebles a bit too much "unnatural"). I tried all the usual recommended EQ settings, but none sounded "right", until I stumbled upon Amir's EQ settings, which are a life saver for me. I can enjoy my DT900's again and even several hours listening sessions (at "low/medium" levels) don't end up with ear fatigue.

All that being said..I am still wondering if I don't miss something and if I shouldn't buy another headphones instead. Second hand market in my country is very limited, so I am mostly stuck to new headphones, but I might have a luck to stumble upon used headphones. Unfortunately I have close to zero chance to audition different headphones myself, so I would appreciate some guidance. Compared to equalized DT990, is there a more "suitable" headphones with similar level of bass, mids, comfort, durability etc., but not so piercing trebles? Based on price (~200eur) and availability (central Europe) I narrowed my options down to Sennheiser HD599, HD560s, 600/650 (if I'll be lucky to find them used) and Hifiman HE400se. Would it make sense to replace equalized DT990 with one of these (equalized or not), or would I end up with practically the same sound in a different package?

Thank you for reading my story and sorry if it's not the appropriate topic/thread to ask these questions.

 

[ZööZ]

. Compared to equalized DT990, is there a more "suitable" headphones with similar level of bass, mids, comfort, durability etc., but not so piercing trebles? Based on price (~200eur) and availability (central Europe) I narrowed my options down to Sennheiser HD599, HD560s, 600/650 (if I'll be lucky to find them used) and Hifiman HE400se. Would it make sense to replace equalized DT990 with one of these (equalized or not), or would I end up with practically the same sound in a different package?

Thank you for reading my story and sorry if it's not the appropriate topic/thread to ask these questions.

Well at least the HE400se should be totally different kind of an animal (planar vs dynamic) at least I enjoy both my HE-4XX and DT990 and find them different enough even equalized to happily keep them both. Can't say much about the senheisers except I have heard alot of good things said of them and they should be tonally totally different than DT990 straight out of the box.

My Hifiman's aren't as comfortable as DT990 edition (haven't tried the pro version) but I find them very comfortable, DT990 just is the more comfortable of the two.

 

[AdamG]

New member here, just wanted to say "thank you" for providing the EQ settings, they work wonders.

A bit longer story - I had been a very happy user of DT990 pro 250ohm for about 13 years - I listened to and enjoyed them "as is", without any EQ (maybe just a bit of extra bass boost). However recently I developed quite strong sensitivity to sibilance and sharp trebles (natural age related hearing loss/differences? ear/neural damage? starting tinnitus? long term ear fatigue? not sure). I noticed it not only on these Beyers, but practically with all my headphones and even in real life (small kids can be especially annoying ). I tried to use HW tricks - paper mod (for some reason it distorted bass on slightly higher volume levels) and/or up to 3 layers of 1mm wool felt (didn't do much to sibilance, but made trebles a bit too much "unnatural"). I tried all the usual recommended EQ settings, but none sounded "right", until I stumbled upon Amir's EQ settings, which are a life saver for me. I can enjoy my DT900's again and even several hours listening sessions (at "low/medium" levels) don't end up with ear fatigue.

All that being said..I am still wondering if I don't miss something and if I shouldn't buy another headphones instead. Second hand market in my country is very limited, so I am mostly stuck to new headphones, but I might have a luck to stumble upon used headphones. Unfortunately I have close to zero chance to audition different headphones myself, so I would appreciate some guidance. Compared to equalized DT990, is there a more "suitable" headphones with similar level of bass, mids, comfort, durability etc., but not so piercing trebles? Based on price (~200eur) and availability (central Europe) I narrowed my options down to Sennheiser HD599, HD560s, 600/650 (if I'll be lucky to find them used) and Hifiman HE400se. Would it make sense to replace equalized DT990 with one of these (equalized or not), or would I end up with practically the same sound in a different package?

Thank you for reading my story and sorry if it's not the appropriate topic/thread to ask these questions.

Welcome Aboard @mysiak.

 

[AdamG]

The DT990 were my first expensive headphones, i bought them as a student from all my saved money solely because i thought the DT990 is superior to the 880 because of the higher number in naming scheme. Good memories though i listened with them through all my teenage years and so on, never got problems with the treble

Welcome Aboard @Mystical_Light.

 

[mysiak]

Well at least the HE400se should be totally different kind of an animal (planar vs dynamic) at least I enjoy both my HE-4XX and DT990 and find them different enough even equalized to happily keep them both. Can't say much about the senheisers except I have heard alot of good things said of them and they should be tonally totally different than DT990 straight out of the box.

My Hifiman's aren't as comfortable as DT990 edition (haven't tried the pro version) but I find them very comfortable, DT990 just is the more comfortable of the two.

Thank you for sharing your experience. To be honest the comfort of Hifiman is my main concern, especially due to their weight and dual cable entry. I tend to keep headphones on my head pretty much whole day and the extra weight might take its toll. Another point it the possibility of the need of a better amp, currently I'm using Creative X3 (which replaced my Fiio E10K) which drives DT900 250ohm plenty enough (I listen at max 50% volume in low gain), but I keep reading how planars need a lot of power. I have also Pro-ject Head Box S2 which I can use as the amp (725mW@32ohm) and keep X3 as DAC/pre-amp only, but no idea if that would be enough.

Sennheisers are probably a safer bet in terms of comfort and driving, but I'm a little afraid that I'll find them boring (I tried some lower end Sennheiser headphones in the past and it was a muddy mess). I am really torn here.

 

[ZööZ]

Another point it the possibility of the need of a better amp, currently I'm using Creative X3 (which replaced my Fiio E10K) which drives DT900 250ohm plenty enough (I listen at max 50% volume in low gain), but I keep reading how planars need a lot of power. I have also Pro-ject Head Box S2 which I can use as the amp (725mW@32ohm) and keep X3 as DAC/pre-amp only, but no idea if that would be enough.

I use about the same volume setting for HE-4XX and. 600ohm DT990 on my Atom amp. (If that's helpful in anyway)

 

[cestmoi]

Thank you for sharing your experience. To be honest the comfort of Hifiman is my main concern, especially due to their weight and dual cable entry. I tend to keep headphones on my head pretty much whole day and the extra weight might take its toll. Another point it the possibility of the need of a better amp, currently I'm using Creative X3 (which replaced my Fiio E10K) which drives DT900 250ohm plenty enough (I listen at max 50% volume in low gain), but I keep reading how planars need a lot of power. I have also Pro-ject Head Box S2 which I can use as the amp (725mW@32ohm) and keep X3 as DAC/pre-amp only, but no idea if that would be enough.

Sennheisers are probably a safer bet in terms of comfort and driving, but I'm a little afraid that I'll find them boring (I tried some lower end Sennheiser headphones in the past and it was a muddy mess). I am really torn here.

Hd6xx, he4xx, and dt990 pro 250 ohm here.

The one from Hifiman has sensitivity of 93 db/mW @ 35 Ohm against 96 db/mW @ 250 Ohm of the dt990 (250 Ohm version), so any amp capable of driving the dt990 will also drive the he4xx despite it being a planar. I've been using the following amp/dacs with those cans: Fiio K5 Pro, E1da 9038s, E1da pdv2, and Soundblaster G6 with no problem at all.

If you are used to the sound signature of your dt990, the hd6xx may be too boring (indeed). It is claimed as a reference for vocal reproduction and I do agree, but that is all it does. It has some bass response but lacks a lot of bass compared to the dt990. Regarding its treble extension compared to dt990, well...


Among the 3 cans, I prefer the he4xx despite some issues due to its weight. It has a better bass and treble extensions than the hd6xx, but are far from the v-shaped sound signature you get from a dt990. All in all, the hd6xx has the more polite sound rendering (rolled off) among them whilst the he4xx provides the good engagement (better bass and treble extensions) missed by the hd6xx.

Just to write a few words about the dt990, in stock condition it is too v-shaped and hence doesn't deserve a single listening session in regard a realistic sound rendering.

 

[solderdude]

The one from Hifiman has sensitivity of 93 db/mW @ 35 Ohm against 96 db/mW @ 250 Ohm of the dt990 (250 Ohm version), so any amp capable of driving the dt990 will also drive the he4xx despite it being a planar.

The usual exception: an OTL tube amp will perfectly drive the DT990 but will struggle with the Hifiman.

E1da 9038s cannot possibly drive the DT990 as this has a fixed SE cable (unless you modified it.)

 

[cestmoi]

@solderdude

About OTL tube amps, thank you. I haven't tested any tube amp with my cans yet.

Regarding 9038s, I've been using it paired with both hd6xx and he4xx by means of balanced cables.
I won't mod my dt990 to balanced (as done with my poor Superlux HD330) because I might sell it.

 

[mysiak]

Thank you gents for your insights, I pulled the trigger and purchased Hifiman HE400se. I wanted to try planar headphones for some time already anyway, so I guess that now it's the right time. From reviews I understand that I should buy a new cable as well as the bundled one is a bit flimsy, but except the original Hifiman (~70eur) I can't find any alternative where I live, so I guess that I'll browse ali and wait a couple of months for the delivery. Anyway, that's a different story..

I'll let you all know how happy I am with my new headphones and how do they compare to DT990 once they arrive.

 

[seerious]

Hi all..
I'm looking for some info on the acoustic transparency of the foam used to protect drivers (and increase comfort for those whose ears touch them).

For instance, with the foam Beyerdynamic uses. There was a big (*ahem* YouTuber) hullabaloo about how great the TYGR's were and how Beyer finally tamed their treble... but then @crinacle measured them and, lo-and-behold, they were basically just DT990's with a new paintjob.

My question is, if I take the standard foam (used on the 770/880/990s) and place them into another headset which only has a very thin piece protecting the driver (like on say the K371), is there going to be a noticeable effect on the treble?

Personally, I find the Beyer foam is a lifesaver for improving comfort on a number of headphones. My K371's are unbearable without the foam after a short time as my ears hit the hard plastic driver. But without measurement gear, I find it difficult to tell whether there is a noticeable sound difference from added dampening. My general feeling is that, no, there isn't. But I'm also not quite at the stage where I feel I can trust my ears.

Tagging you @solderdude as I know you've done some work on "taming the treble". Your results seem to indicate the foam on / foam off will often only result in a dB or less change in the treble region, with no change in bass/mids?

Honestly, having an answer to this would be great for those of us with larger heads/ears who struggle to wear some of the usual recommendations when it comes to headphones. We don't want to limit ourselves to the Sennheiser 5 and 8 series forever

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Hi all..
I'm looking for some info on the acoustic transparency of the foam used to protect drivers (and increase comfort for those whose ears touch them).

For instance, with the foam Beyerdynamic uses. There was a big (*ahem* YouTuber) hullabaloo about how great the TYGR's were and how Beyer finally tamed their treble... but then @crinacle measured them and, lo-and-behold, they were basically just DT990's with a new paintjob.

My question is, if I take the standard foam (used on the 770/880/990s) and place them into another headset which only has a very thin piece protecting the driver (like on say the K371), is there going to be a noticeable effect on the treble?

Personally, I find the Beyer foam is a lifesaver for improving comfort on a number of headphones. My K371's are unbearable without the foam after a short time as my ears hit the hard plastic driver. But without measurement gear, I find it difficult to tell whether there is a noticeable sound difference from added dampening. My general feeling is that, no, there isn't. But I'm also not quite at the stage where I feel I can trust my ears.

Tagging you @solderdude as I know you've done some work on "taming the treble". Your results seem to indicate the foam on / foam off will often only result in a dB or less change in the treble region, with no change in bass/mids?

Honestly, having an answer to this would be great for those of us with larger heads/ears who struggle to wear some of the usual recommendations when it comes to headphones. We don't want to limit ourselves to the Sennheiser 5 and 8 series forever

Could you provide a link to the YouTube 'hullaballoo'? Cheers.

 

[seerious]

@Yorkshire Mouth sure...

There is plenty more... But basically everyone started taking it as gospel that the TYGR's had much tamer treble than the DT990s.

 

[AdamG]

@Yorkshire Mouth sure...

There is plenty more... But basically everyone started taking it as gospel that the TYGR's had much tamer treble than the DT990s.

Welcome Aboard @seerious.

 

[seerious]

Welcome Aboard @seerious.

Thank you! It's really great that ASR exists. The subjectivity and voodoo behind this hobby is ridiculous.

 

[solderdude]

The foam disc costs 2.32 Euro each but with shipping costs are 19 Euro so did not order them.

These are discs designed for Amiron Wireless and they also put them in the TYGR and the newer models.
Probably some felt inside. There will almost certainly be less of a treble peak but not completely remove it.